It’s Paul For Me

[WordSword]

The same thing Heb 8:6-13 is talking about; i.e., Lk 22:20, 1 Co 11:25.

Israel has never had, and never will have a Christian covenant like the present one in Christ's Blood, of which He is mediator. The new law covenant with Israel in Jer and Eze has not transpired yet, which will be during the Millennia.

 

[Clare73]

Israel has never had, and never will have a Christian covenant like the present one in Christ's Blood, of which He is mediator.
The new law covenant with Israel in Jer and Eze has not transpired yet, which will be during the Millennia.

Not according to apostolic teaching authoritative to the church in Heb 8:6-13, Ro 11:17-23.

 

[WordSword]

Not according to apostolic teaching authoritative to the church in Heb 8:6-13, Ro 11:17-23.

I think the truth about Jer, Eze and quite a few other prophecies are not going to be understood. Thankfully, and understandingly it's not essential doctrine!

 

[Guojing]

The NT teachings of the gospels and epistles were written by the apostles of the NT (with the exception of Mark, Luke, James).

They are NT apostolic teaching.

Different people just interpret them differently from you.

 

[oikonomia]

Thanks for this. On bullet point 5, I understood that the Jews realized that they crucified their Messiah after the antichrist broke the covenant which triggered Christ's return. But not so according to the paper.

I was not able to see your point.
By "bullet point 5" I assume you mean the article entitled -

Israel in God’s Economy (6) – Israel in the End Times, the Millennium, and Eternity Future​

But reading through it and re-checking your point "But not so according to the paper" I couldn't ascertain your point.
If you put a little more explanation on your point that would help.

Does "the paper" refer to the article which is fifth bullet point ?
Or does "the paper" refer to another article in the series?
If either, a more specific indication would clear this up for me.

 

[Guojing]

The hysterical gospel hating mob in Acts 19 shouting "Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!" was that
also a New Testament church according to your generalization?

καὶ ταῦτα εἰπὼν ἀπέλυσε τὴν ἐκκλησίαν.
And when he had said these things, he dismissed the assembly. (Acts 19:41)

By appealing to the basic definition of ekklesia you're not proving all that much theologically.

My point was that just because you see the word "church" in scripture, it does not necessarily means its the Body of Christ.

The BOC is a church true, but there are other churches in scripture that are not the BOC

This is nonsense.

If I preach that my wife has long hair,
and you preach that your wife has long hair.

Does it follow that my wife is your wife?

 

[WordSword]

Not according to apostolic teaching authoritative to the church in Heb 8:6-13, Ro 11:17-23.

The two ethic peoples becoming one in the Lord Jesus does not include the Jews who do not believe in Christ, but believe in God. Yes, these Jews truly believe in God, as Christ demonstrated. When He said "Ye believe in God," He was confirming a truth, thus a Jew can truly believe in God without believing in Christ. Even though they dishonor God by their unbelief in Christ (Jhn 5:23), which is the worst evil among many with Israel, God will not fail to restore them; even to the point of "causing" them to live according to a new law (Eze 36:27).

It's two groups of people being saved, but Israel will not be reborn, which is required to inherit the New Heaven.

 

[Clare73]

I think the truth about Jer, Eze and quite a few other prophecies are not going to be understood. Thankfully, and understandingly it's not essential doctrine!

I think the NT is understood, is authoritative to the church, and all not in agreement with it is error.

 

[Clare73]

Different people just interpret them differently from you.

Then it falls to you or show their grammatical error.

 

[Guojing]

Then it falls to you or show their grammatical error.

You cannot convince anyone before they are ready to be convinced.

 

[Clare73]

You cannot convince anyone before they are ready to be convinced.

Or until one can make a Biblical demonstration of their supposed error.

 

[Guojing]

Or until one can make a Biblical demonstration of their supposed error.

Again, you must understand how the human mind works. No one can be convinced of anything if they are not ready.

 

[Clare73]

Again, you must understand how the human mind works. No one can be convinced of anything if they are not ready.

The refuge of the failed argument. . .

 

[WordSword]

I think the NT is understood, is authoritative to the church, and all not in agreement with it is error.

I wish that were true, but many have the wrong ideas concerning some basic doctrines.

 

[oikonomia]

My point was that just because you see the word "church" in scripture, it does not necessarily means its the Body of Christ.

And I never said every assembly is a new testament church.

The BOC is a church true, but there are other churches in scripture that are not the BOC

When I use the Body of Christ for certain I mean the church universal.
When I use the plural "churches" I mean the local expression of the universal church.

If I preach that my wife has long hair,
and you preach that your wife has long hair.

Does it follow that my wife is your wife?

Your point that for Paul to preach the gospel of grace was not
necessarily his preaching of the gospel of the kingdom is nonsensical.

I don't see any clever way to salvage that error. Its just wrong headed. I would say it is too shortsighted.

The relationship between the new testament church life and the discipline of
living under the King's administration is too interrelated.

The kingdom of the heavens in the church age is a matter of submission to Christ's administration
not only as the Head of the Body but the King eternal, immortal, invisible - the only wise God.

Now to the King of the ages, incorruptible, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. (1 Tim. 1:17)

Those who the Lord deems have well lived in the kingdom of the heavens in the church life as overcoming ones
He will grant reward openly and visibly in glory in the manistation of that kingdom in the thousand year millinnium.

So Paul, for example, awaited a crown of righteousness to co-reign with Christ at His return.
He says he kept the faith, he ran the race. Therefore he expected the open reward to reignat Christ's manifestation.

I have fought the good fight; I have finished the course; I have kept the faith.

Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, with which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will recompense me in that day, and not only me but also all those who have loved His appearing. (2 Tim. 4:7,8)

And it is not only because he was an Israelite. He speaks to the Roman Christians who were Gentiles as Gentiles.

But I am speaking to you, the Gentiles. Inasmuch therefore as I am an apostle of the Gentiles, I glorify my ministry, (Rom. 11:13)

Yet to these Gentile members of the Body of Christ Paul says what the kingdom of God IS, presently, all things being normal.

Therefore do not let your good be slandered;
For the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. (Rom. 14:16,17)

1.) He is speaking to the Gentile members of the Body of Christ, the church.

2.) He is teaching them what the kingdom of God IS in this present age if they are normal about being under Christ's administration.

 

[Clare73]

I wish that were true, but many have the wrong ideas concerning some basic doctrines.

It remains true nonetheless.

 

[Guojing]

Your point that for Paul to preach the gospel of grace was not
necessarily his preaching of the gospel of the kingdom is nonsensical.

I don't see any clever way to salvage that error. Its just wrong headed. I would say it is too shortsighted.

So if Paul preached the kingdom of God in his gospel
And the 12 preached the kingdom of God in their gospel.

You will conclude that they are therefore preaching the same gospel?

If that is your argument and you don't see how it is non-sequitur, despite my example I have provided for you, then there is nothing more I can do. We can move on.

 

[AbbaLove]

I think the NT is understood, is authoritative to the church, and all not in agreement with it is error.

That equallly applies to Romans 8:30 and 1 Corinthians 6:11

 

[oikonomia]

So if Paul preached the kingdom of God in his gospel
And the 12 preached the kingdom of God in their gospel.

You will conclude that they are therefore preaching the same gospel?

If that is your argument and you don't see how it is non-sequitur, despite my example I have provided for you, then there is nothing more I can do. We can move on.

There is nothing more you can do. There is no way forward for you on this point except to believe the gospel is the gospel of grace
and also the gospel of the kingdom. Paul preached the same gospel as the twelve.

Now I make known to you, brothers, the gospel which I announced to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,
Through which also you are being saved, if you hold fast the word which I announced to you as the gospel, unless you have believed in vain.
For I delivered to you, first of all, that which also I received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures;

And that He was buried, and that He has been raised on the third day according to the Scriptures;
And that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve;
Then He appeared to over five hundred brothers at one time, of whom the majority remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;

Then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles;
And last of all He appeared to me also, as it were to one born prematurely.
For I am the least of the apostles, who am not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. (1 Cor. 15:1-9)

 

[Guojing]

There is nothing more you can do. There is no way forward for you on this point except to believe the gospel is the gospel of grace
and also the gospel of the kingdom. Paul preached the same gospel as the twelve.

Yep, and my wife is your wife as well