It’s Paul For Me

[oikonomia]

In My Father's house are many abodes.

 

[WordSword]

Okay my brother. If you can point out specifically where I misspoke or misrepresented the NT, you can show me the specifics.

I need to know the specifics of what issue. Thanks and God bless!

 

[WordSword]

It's Jesus for me. Why Paul only?

Everything that is to come has already been revealed in the scriptures that was already available in the time of Jesus.

Many of these scriptures are not found in our Bible. The Bible did not exist back then and would not be for at least another 400 years.

Paul did not preach to all the Israelites so everyone who died before hearing his teachings, what a bummer...

Not the case at all. Everything we need to know was already available in the scriptures available to the Jews. Jesus simply made an example of these teaching by fulfilling it.

The writer's intention for saying "It's Paul For Me" is in the sense that Paul was used by the Lord Jesus (Act 9:6) to reveal much of God's mind and will for the Christians after Jesus' ascension. Jesus would only address the Jews and teach them about the Law, and how to be a Christian (Mat 15:24). Jesus mentioned once about the Church (Mat 16:18), but used Paul to reveal and expound on it to the believers; and many other things like spiritual growth in Christ (Eph 4:15), and much more.

 

[oikonomia]

I need to know the specifics of what issue. Thanks and God bless!

I mean the specifics of why many mansions in Heaven should be the better interpretation
of John 14. You have plenty to critique from all that I presented.

If you don't feel to critique any mistakes I made then how about answer a question.
What do you think it meant for Jesus to say He was going away and was coming again?

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will receive you to Myself, so that where I am you also may be. (John 14:3)

Please consider that the Apostle John highlights that the Lord's disciples were puzzled about this.
John thought it important enough to emphasize that they had a hard time understanding what Jesus meant.

Some of His disciples then said to one another, What is this that He says to us, A little while and you do not behold Me, and again a little while and you will see Me; and, Because I am going to the Father?

Therefore they said, What is this that He says, A little while? We do not know what He is talking about. (John 16:17,18)

 

[WordSword]

I mean the specifics of why many mansions in Heaven should be the better interpretation
of John 14. You have plenty to critique from all that I presented.

If you don't feel to critique any mistakes I made then how about answer a question.

I think it better to share this link from John Gill (1697–1771) for Jn 14:2, 3: John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible - Bible Study Online

If you like you can view this link also from Albert Barnes (1798-1870). These are the two primary commentators I have been using for the last two decades: John 14 - Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

What do you think it meant for Jesus to say He was going away and was coming again?

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will receive you to Myself, so that where I am you also may be. (John 14:3)

Please consider that the Apostle John highlights that the Lord's disciples were puzzled about this.
John thought it important enough to emphasize that they had a hard time understanding what Jesus meant.

Some of His disciples then said to one another, What is this that He says to us, A little while and you do not behold Me, and again a little while and you will see Me; and, Because I am going to the Father?

Therefore they said, What is this that He says, A little while? We do not know what He is talking about. (John 16:17,18)

I believe the only way for us to be reborn through the Holy Spirit was for Christ to depart. Until they finally saw the Lord Jesus in His new Body, they did not believe in His resurrection:

Jhn 20:9: "For as yet they knew not the Scripture, that He must rise again from the dead." They never did understand His why He had to die, but that's ok, for they required a sign first (1Co 1:22).

I really do appreciate your desire for God's Word (not many are), and He will surely continue to increase your understanding at His pace.

God's blessings to your Family, and God be blessed!

 

[oikonomia]

I believe the only way for us to be reborn through the Holy Spirit was for Christ to depart. Until they finally saw the Lord Jesus in His new Body, they did not believe in His resurrection:

This confirms that we receive the life of God to be united with Him.
To be reborn is more than a ticket. It is the commencement of the growth of that divine life that has been implanted into us.

That is why the New Testament speaks of "the growth of God". We are born with a life which is to grow up into maturity.

And not holding the Head, out from whom all the Body, being richly supplied and knit together by means of the joints and sinews, grows with the growth of God. (Col. 2:19)

The growth of God is the growth of the life of Jesus that has been implanted into our innermost being.
This "grows with the growth of God" is not the encrease of doctrinal knowledge.
Nor is it just growing naturally which is done by unbelievers as well.

As newborn babes, long for the guileless milk of the word in order that by it you may grow unto salvation, (1 Peter 2:2)

It is to Christ growing as a seed of divine life that we may grow into Him in a mingled way.
To receive a luxurious heavely mansion means nothing. If you are not transformed into Christ's image from within
the grandest mansion will not make you happy. Nor will it meet the need of God for His habitation of God in spirit.

Jhn 20:9: "For as yet they knew not the Scripture, that He must rise again from the dead." They never did understand His why He had to die, but that's ok, for they required a sign first (1Co 1:22).

Jesus explained that He had to go away into death to accomplish redemption that man may have a standing in God.
The place is a Person. And the way TO the place is also a Person - Jesus.

Thomas said to Him, Lord, we do not know where You are going; how can we know the way?
Jesus said to him, I am the way and the reality and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me. (John 14:5,6)

The place to which He goes is the Father.
The way to which the disciples can go there also is the Son -"the way and the reality and the life".

Both the place and the way to the place are a matter of divine life.

Christ died to bring us to God.

For Christ also has suffered once for sins, the Righteous on behalf of the unrighteous, that He might bring you to God, (1 Pet. 3:18a)

I really do appreciate your desire for God's Word (not many are), and He will surely continue to increase your understanding at His pace.

He has shown His people in these days that we have been cheated by expecting to live in mansions in heaven rather than
ourselves becomming "the dwelling place of God in spirit" which He is building us into by growing in us.

And He has shown His peaple that indeed the meek "shall inherit the earth." (Matt. 5:5)
Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.

God's blessings to your Family, and God be blessed!

Thankyou. Same to you.
And remember, the greatest blessing is the Triune God Himself.

 

[Guojing]

It's my present understanding that condemnation for not believing in the Lord Jesus could be in reference to Jews who do not believe in God and non-Christian Gentiles. I say "could be" because I'm still looking at this passage and others like it for God's guidance in understanding here.

You are correct, the gospel of the kingdom is only for Israel (Matthew 10:5-7)

 

[oikonomia]

You are correct, the gospel of the kingdom is only for Israel (Matthew 10:5-7)

You are both in error if you teach that the gospel of the kingdom is only for Israel

Therefore I say to you that the kingdom of God shall be taken from you and shall be given to a nation producing its fruit. (Matt. 21:43)

 

[Guojing]

You are both in error if you teach that the gospel of the kingdom is only for Israel

Therefore I say to you that the kingdom of God shall be taken from you and shall be given to a nation producing its fruit. (Matt. 21:43)

A nation (singular) in scripture means Israel, Jesus is talking about the circumcised little flock, the Jews from Israel who believed the gospel of the kingdom, in this verse.

If Jesus meant gentiles, he would have used plural "nations".

 

[Clare73]

You are correct, the gospel of the kingdom is only for Israel (Matthew 10:5-7)

The gospel of the kingdom is for all those of Christ.

The kingdom is here now, invisible and within (Mt 12:28, Lk 11:20).

It is everlasting (Lk 1:33, Da 2:44) and therefore, there is no other kingdom.

(Your interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly, Nu 12:8, is in contradiction of NT apostolic teaching.)

 

[WordSword]

The gospel of the kingdom is for all those of Christ.

The kingdom is here now, invisible and within (Mt 12:28, Lk 11:20).

It is everlasting (Lk 1:33, Da 2:44) and therefore, there is no other kingdom.

(Your interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly, Nu 12:8, is in contradiction of the NT apostolic teaching.)

I do like your incisive practice, but we're talking about something understandingly not going to be accepted by most because of the difficulty of requiring Scriptural inference. But nobody can't get around the fact of Israel's and Judah's coming new covenant (Jer 31:31-33; Eze 36:25-27 - direct Scripture reference related to Israel). This is not Jews converting to Christianity as many might conclude! This too is understandable concerning the disagreement with this issue.

 

[oikonomia]

A nation (singular) in scripture means Israel, Jesus is talking about the circumcised little flock, the Jews from Israel who believed the gospel of the kingdom, in this verse.

If Jesus meant gentiles, he would have used plural "nations".

The nation is not Israel. It is the church. Particularly this "nation" are those living a kingdom life of submission to Christ in the local church.
For the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. (Romans 14:17)

If we are normal living under the ruling of the Holy Spirit we are particpation NOW in the kingdom of God.
For the Christian (whether Jew or Gentile) it is abnormal that we no be enjoying "righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."

We need to grow more and more in this regard to be kingdom people producing the fruits that God ordains kingdom people should bear.

The opening of the door of the church is simultaneously the opening of the kingdom of God. They are closely related.
And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of the heavens, and whatever you bind on the earth shall have been bound in the heavens, and whatever you loose on the earth shall have been loosed in the heavens.(Matt. 16:18,19)

Peter preached the gospel and used the plural keys.
Peter opened the door to the kingdom first to Jew on Pentecost who received the gospel. (Acts 2:38-42)
And Peter opened used the other key to open the door of the church and the kingdom to the Gentiles in
the house of Cornelius (Acts 10:34-38)

The normal prevailing church life should be the participation in the kingdom of God.
If it is not our church life experience is abnormal. We then should seek to live more under the moment by moment administration of the Lord.

Notice also that the Apostle Paul's preaching of the gospel of the grace was also his proclaming the kingdom.

. . . the ministry which I have received from the Lord Jesus to solemnly testify of the gospel of the grace of God.
And now, behold, I know that you all, among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom, will see my face no more. (Acts 24b,25)

 

[Clare73]

I do like your incisive practice, but we're talking about something understandingly not going to be accepted by most because of the difficulty of requiring Scriptural inference.

Actually, it is not accepted because of more than requiring "Scriptural inference."

It is not accepted because it is in actual contradiction of NT apostolic teaching, which makes it de facto error.

But nobody can't get around the fact of Israel's and Judah's coming new covenant (Jer 31:31-33; Eze 36:25-27 - direct Scripture reference related to Israel).

Good example of your understanding being in contradiction of the NT word of God to the Hebrew Christians in Heb 8:6-13, where Jesus is the Mediator (Heb 8:6) of that very same new covenant for all those of faith in him, thereby making your understanding in error.
All those not in that new covenant of Heb 8:7-13, of which Jesus is the Mediator, are not the people of God's one olive tree (Ro 11:17-23) which tree includes both OT and NT saints.

 

[WordSword]

Actually, it is not accepted because of more than requiring "Scriptural inference."

Who do you think Jer 31 and Eze 36 are talking about?

 

[Guojing]

The nation is not Israel. It is the church.

The circumcised little flock is also a church. Church means called out assembly.

Notice also that the Apostle Paul's preaching of the gospel of the grace was also his proclaming the kingdom.

. . . the ministry which I have received from the Lord Jesus to solemnly testify of the gospel of the grace of God.
And now, behold, I know that you all, among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom, will see my face no more. (Acts 24b,25)

Just because Paul preached the kingdom of God, it does not follow that he is also preaching the gospel of the kingdom.

The phrase kingdom of God means different things to Israel, and the Body of Christ.

 

[Guojing]

The gospel of the kingdom is for all those of Christ.

The kingdom is here now, invisible and within (Mt 12:28, Lk 11:20).

It is everlasting (Lk 1:33, Da 2:44) and therefore, there is no other kingdom.

(Your interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly, Nu 12:8, is in contradiction of the NT apostolic teaching.)

You keep using the phrase NT apostolic teaching but no one, other than yourself, understand what you are referring to.

 

[oikonomia]

The circumcised little flock is also a church. Church means called out assembly.

The hysterical gospel hating mob in Acts 19 shouting "Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!" was that
also a New Testament church according to your generalization?

καὶ ταῦτα εἰπὼν ἀπέλυσε τὴν ἐκκλησίαν.
And when he had said these things, he dismissed the assembly. (Acts 19:41)

By appealing to the basic definition of ekklesia you're not proving all that much theologically.

Just because Paul preached the kingdom of God, it does not follow that he is also preaching the gospel of the kingdom.

This is nonsense.

The phrase kingdom of God means different things to Israel, and the Body of Christ.

Sure the kingdom of God brings to mind different things to different minds.
The issue is what does God and Christ mean by the kingdom of God in its fullest scope in the Bible.

The promise to Israel to inherit that portion of the planet God promises Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will be
their sphere of blessing.

But there is more to the earth than just that grand area from the Euphrates to the Mediteranean Sea.

And the kingdom people so rewarded during the millennium are assigned kings over different cities all over the earth.

And he said to him, Well done, good slave. Because you have become faithful in the least, have authority over ten cities.
And the second came, saying, Your mina, master, has made five minas.
And he said to this one as well, And you, be over five cities. (Luke 19:17-19)

 

[Clare73]

You keep using the phrase NT apostolic teaching but no one, other than yourself, understand what you are referring to.

The NT teachings of the gospels and epistles were written by the apostles of the NT (with the exception of Mark, Luke, James).

They are NT apostolic teaching.

 

[Clare73]

Who do you think Jer 31 and Eze 36 are talking about?

The same thing Heb 8:6-13 is talking about; i.e., Lk 22:20, 1 Co 11:25.

 

[Laodicean60]

Copied from link to seven articles in Shepherding Words on a biblical healthy attitude of Christians to current events in Israel.
The info was copied without permission from Israel in God’s Economy (1) – An Introduction
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The articles in this series will look at the special place that Israel occupies in God’s economy from a variety of angles, including:

• Israel as God’s earthly people based on God’s calling of Abraham and His promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob;
• God’s way of dealing with Israel and the nations in the Old Testament;
• Israel and God’s salvation in the New Testament;
• The main prophecies concerning Israel before the Lord’s coming;
• Israel in the end times, in the kingdom, and in eternity future; and
• Most importantly, what our attitude should be toward Israel and the signs of the Lord’s coming.

May the Lord enlighten the saints in His recovery that we may give Him our full cooperation without distraction that He may consummate His move in this age for the building up of the Body of Christ and the preparation of His bride that He may come back to establish His kingdom on the earth.

Thanks for this. On bullet point 5, I understood that the Jews realized that they crucified their Messiah after the antichrist broke the covenant which triggered Christ's return. But not so according to the paper.