Issues of Messianic Identity

[ContraMundum]

Contra:

And how many Jews within the Anglican Church have you helped bring into observance? And how many more have simply blown observance off.

Only one have I helped, and I have never seen anyone within my experience (as defined by "Anglicanism") just "blow" observance off. Not once.

Again, conversion to Christianity remains the number one reason for Jews walking away from both People and Covenant.

I doubt that very, very much. Most of the Jews I know are neither Christian or observant. The ratio is favored heavily by non-observance. The Christian Church is merely a popular scapegoat among the anti-missionaries.

I worked within the church for YEARS trying to make a difference, and I feel like all I have is a very sore and bloody forehead for banging my head against the wall. The ONLY place I see any REAL progress against assimilation is within the Messianic movement.

Oh well. Sorry to hear that. I'm doing very well, actually.

Does that mean I think Yeshua-faith Jews MUST leave the churches for MJ? NO! Obviously you are doing just fine. I know others doing well. But you are exceptions rather than the rule.

Us "exceptions" will one day prove to be the rule, if you believe the prophetic parts of the scriptures in the manner I do.

In any case- as long as we do what God has put before us we will be only accountable to Him. Each may be in a different situation, but all must be faithful.

 

[GuardianShua]

The RCC has had "PR" programs (for want of a better word) going on for centuries and centuries. I've been pretty close to some of them on my side of things.

According to them, it's all about fulfilling the mind of Christ that we all be "one" with the same close unity as He and the Father are "one". This of course bears some serious thought too, because everyone must ask themselves whether or not they are doing anything to this end.

Im for the unity of Christians, but Im concerned about them compromising the truth. The word Pope means Father. Who is your Holy Father?

 

[HaNotsri]

I worked within the church for YEARS trying to make a difference, and I feel like all I have is a very sore and bloody forehead for banging my head against the wall. The ONLY place I see any REAL progress against assimilation is within the Messianic movement.

To Jews even joining the Messianic movement is considered assimilation. So you really aren't finding any progress when it comes to the larger Jewish world.

 

[ContraMundum]

Im for the unity of Christians, but Im concerned about them compromising the truth.

Naturally. I don't think anyone, even the Catholics, would want that.

The word Pope means Father. Who is your Holy Father?

I have lots of fathers (my Dad, my mentors, St. Paul fathered us Christians too- this term is allowable in the right contexts according to scripture). But Yeshua said "call no man Father" when He was speaking of within a certain other context, of which I have only one Father, God the Father. (Let's not derail the thread too much, eh?)

But, because you and I are of different religions I have a feeling we won't see eye to eye on this anyway. Still, enjoy your day!

 

[ContraMundum]

To Jews even joining the Messianic movement is considered assimilation. So you really aren't finding any progress when it comes to the larger Jewish world.

Oh well, some Jews think buying from the wrong shop is assimilation.

Nevertheless, God is in charge and the inconsistancies of the Rabbinic arguments regarding assimilation and "who is a Jew" will always stand out like a sore thumb. You can't please everybody, so we should all just try to please God.

 

[TheRabbi]

Nevertheless, God is in charge and the inconsistancies of the Rabbinic arguments regarding assimilation and "who is a Jew" will always stand out like a sore thumb.

Not sure what you're talking about there, maybe you could clarify?

I do agree with you though, that the idea that conversion to Christianity is the prime reason for assimilation is patently absurd.

 

[ContraMundum]

Not sure what you're talking about there, maybe you could clarify?

I'm sure you're aware of the various arguments over identity among the various Jewish schools of thought. That's what I was referring to. There's some diversity and although each individual system of belief within each school is pushed towards consistant internal structure and logic the sum of all schools looks pretty diverse and contradictory.

I think this is the same within disputable points in any religion, actually, including mine. We have lots of diversity on open questions and even ones that appear to be more obvious.

I do agree with you though, that the idea that conversion to Christianity is the prime reason for assimilation is patently absurd.

Yep.

 

[GeratTzedek]

Not sure what you're talking about there, maybe you could clarify?

I do agree with you though, that the idea that conversion to Christianity is the prime reason for assimilation is patently absurd.

Assimilation ultimately being no longer identifying as a Jew, what, Rabbi, would you say the major reason for assimilation is? Secular Jews, for example, while not observant, still identify as Jews. Their children still identify as Jews. How about their grandchildren? Because that's where it's finally lost as far as converts go -- their grandchildren do not identify as Jews. They are lost to Israel.

 

[GeratTzedek]

Michael:

This is not a forum in which to attack the gentile churches. That includes the Catholic church.

 

[TheRabbi]

Allan Dershowitz can identify as a Jew all he wants, but he's still just as assimilated as a jew that converts to Christianity, Buddhism or any other religion.