Israel's Plan to Gain Control of the Middle East

[BABerean2]

Yeah, that is just a load of anti-Semitic garbage.

There are some modern Orthodox Jews who often stand in opposition to the modern State of Israel.

Are they "antisemitic"?

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[usexpat97]

God isn't finished with Israel

Who is God finished with, then? That is a non-statement.

 

[A Realist]

That should not come as a shock to anyone but the most naive.

That someone would use this conspiracy theory as a valid eschatological argument does not come as a shock to me.

The naivety lies in those that continue to view eschatology through the lens of popular dispensationalism and supposed "end time" experts.

The fact that a 9/11 Truther such as yourself is weighing in on this further solidifies my opinion.

 

[Nige55]

Not nonsense. Is appropriate for eschatology. Modern Israel does have a role in the end times--as the BAD guys. And Satan conspires. That should not come as a shock to anyone but the most naive.

It's all mapped out in revelation. You're forgetting that the veil will be lifted. I think it's you who want's them to be the 'bad guys'. You know who the bad guys might be ? The ones beheading Christians. Just sayin'.

 

[usexpat97]

So you readily admit that you're unrelenting, unconditional support for Israel comes from "revelation". Correct?

 

[BABerean2]

It's all mapped out in revelation. You're forgetting that the veil will be lifted. I think it's you who want's them to be the 'bad guys'. You know who the bad guys might be ? The ones beheading Christians. Just sayin'.

Rev_2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.


Rev_3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


Some of us cannot tell the difference between the Baal worshipers and the faithful remnant in Romans 11:1-5.
Which group is being described above?

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[Nige55]

So you readily admit that you're unrelenting, unconditional support for Israel comes from "revelation". Correct?

Are you referring to me ? If so, no is the answer.
Did you mean 'comes solely from' perhaps ?

 

[Nige55]

Rev_2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.


Rev_3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


Some of us cannot tell the difference between the Baal worshipers and the faithful remnant in Romans 11:1-5.
Which group is being described above?

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I'm very clear on the distinction between the two. Thanks.

 

[Justified112]

There are some modern Orthodox Jews who often stand in opposition to the modern State of Israel.

Are they "antisemitic"?

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Yes, the Nutrei Karta are anti-Semitic. They even locked arms with the PLO and supported terrorism against other Jews in opposition to Israel's existence. One can be a Jew and be anti-Semitic. Even Hitler was Jewish.

 

[Justified112]

The claim that God owes something to those who reject His Son as the "chief cornerstone" in Matthew chapter 21, is one of the greatest deceptions in the history of the church.
Christ clearly stated that the kingdom would be taken from those who reject Him and it would be given to another nation.
That "holy nation" which accepts the "chief cornerstone" is found in 1 Peter 2:4-10.

The above unBiblical claim most often comes from those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine that John Nelson Darby brought to America, about the time of the Civil War.
After the doctrine was incorporated into the Scofield Reference Bible it spread like a virus through the American Evangelical Church. It has often been perverted into various forms of "Dual Covenant Theology". Some such as John Hagee have even claimed that modern Jews do not need Jesus as their Messiah because they are still under the Old Covenant.
Hagee needs to read Galatians 1:6-9.

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:18-24, the Two Peoples of God doctrine falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.

The most "antisemitic" thing that Christians can do is to tell a group of people that they are in a right relationship with God because of who their mother and father would be. The words of the Apostle Paul in Titus 3:9 reveal the error of this idea, which is based on genealogy.
The most important genealogy in the Bible is Matthew 1:1, as confirmed by Paul in Galatians 3:16. Christ is the ultimate fulfillment of Israel.
In Luke 24:25-27 Christ reveals that the Old Testament is about Him.

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This just demonstrates the kind of lies and strawman assumptions that people like you make about those who believe the promises of God in the Bible to restore Israel.

No one said that God owes the Jews anything. But He has made promises to them that He must fulfill or else prove Himself to be liar. If God does not keep His promises to restore Israel, then God is not faithful and cannot be trusted. If God can't be trusted to keep His promises to the Jews, then there is cause doubt that He will be faithful to keep His promises to us. Your position is an assault on God's character and integrity.

Secondly, Matt 21 was speaking to the Pharisees, not all of Israel. In that parable the "kingdom" was Israel (vineyard) and the Pharisees were the wicked tenets who had the vineyard taken from them. The text even says that the Pharisees realized Jesus was talking about them, personally. Jesus was condemning all of Israel.

Thirdly, Nothing I said has anything to do "dual covenant theology." That is a strawman argument. I never said that Jews could be saved any other way than through faith in Jesus Christ. You made false assumptions about what I believe and thus assigned false values and motives.

So, the entire premise of your argument is based on false assumptions and a very poor exegesis of Scripture.

 

[St. Helens]

MOD HAT ON
Address only the content of the post and not the poster.
No Flaming or Goading please.
MOD HAT OFF​

 

[_Dave_]

Deleted -- Meant to be posted elsewhere.

 

[jgr]

This just demonstrates the kind of lies and strawman assumptions that people like you make about those who believe the promises of God in the Bible to restore Israel.

No one said that God owes the Jews anything. But He has made promises to them that He must fulfill or else prove Himself to be liar. If God does not keep His promises to restore Israel, then God is not faithful and cannot be trusted. If God can't be trusted to keep His promises to the Jews, then there is cause doubt that He will be faithful to keep His promises to us. Your position is an assault on God's character and integrity.

Secondly, Matt 21 was speaking to the Pharisees, not all of Israel. In that parable the "kingdom" was Israel (vineyard) and the Pharisees were the wicked tenets who had the vineyard taken from them. The text even says that the Pharisees realized Jesus was talking about them, personally. Jesus was condemning all of Israel.

Thirdly, Nothing I said has anything to do "dual covenant theology." That is a strawman argument. I never said that Jews could be saved any other way than through faith in Jesus Christ. You made false assumptions about what I believe and thus assigned false values and motives.

So, the entire premise of your argument is based on false assumptions and a very poor exegesis of Scripture.

How does God identify and distinguish His Chosen People?

1. Their DNA
2. Their religion
3. Their culture
4. Their faith and obedience in and to His Son

?

In God's New Will and Testament, all covenants and promises are fulfilled in Christ and those who are in Christ.

The OT covenants and promises are the promissory clauses of God's Old Will and Testament, and they are both revoked and fulfilled in the promissory clauses of His New Will and Testament, written in the Blood of His Son Jesus Christ, the Divine Testator, coming into full force and effect upon His death.

If you have made your own Will and Testament, you will see that the very first clause states the following or its equivalent:

"I HEREBY REVOKE all former Wills and other testamentary dispositions by me at any time therefore made and declare this to be my Last Will and Testament."

This means that all former wills and testaments, and all of their promissory clauses in their entirety, are completely null and void. In their place, the promissory clauses of the current last new will and testament are the only ones in force and effect. Any promissory clause which appeared in the old will and testament, but does not appear in the new will and testament, is irrevocably null and void unless yet another new will and testament is made which re-includes it.

Thus we see:

Hebrews 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Hebrews 10
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

God`s New Will and Testament is everlasting:

Hebrews 13
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.

There is none greater.

We see other new promissory clauses of the New Will and Testament in:

Matthew 21:33-45
In this parable, the son, who is identified as the heir, typifies Christ.

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Hebrews 1:1,2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

In them, we see that the Heir and Beneficiary is Christ alone, that all of the promises are affirmed and confirmed in Him, and that He is Heir of all things. All includes the OT land promises, the restoration promises, the blessings promises, and all else. There are no exceptions.

And His New Will and Testament contains even better promises:

Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Such as:

Hebrews 11
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Additional promissory clauses in...:

Romans 8:16-17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

...make us who are in Christ joint heirs with Him.

But notice:
There are no promissory clauses for anyone, Jew or Gentile, who is not in Christ.

 

[BABerean2]

That someone would use this conspiracy theory as a valid eschatological argument does not come as a shock to me.

The naivety lies in those that continue to view eschatology through the lens of popular dispensationalism and supposed "end time" experts.

The fact that a 9/11 Truther such as yourself is weighing in on this further solidifies my opinion.

Who were the Zionists which bombed the King David Hotel during 1946, murdering 91 people in the process?

It was called an act of "terrorism" at the time.

Who was the leader of the organization which "conspired" to bomb the building, and who later became prime minister of the modern State of Israel?

King David Hotel bombing - Wikipedia

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[A Realist]

Who were the Zionists which bombed the King David Hotel during 1946, murdering 91 people in the process?

It was called an act of "terrorism" at the time.

Who was the leader of the organization which "conspired" to bomb the building, and who later became prime minister of the modern State of Israel?

King David Hotel bombing - Wikipedia

.

Straw man.

 

[DavidPT]

Rev_2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.


Rev_3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


Some of us cannot tell the difference between the Baal worshipers and the faithful remnant in Romans 11:1-5.
Which group is being described above?

.

Prove to some of us that you know what you are talking about here. Give also your interpretation of Rev_3:9 that you neglected to highlight---behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. What is your interpretation of that? When and how do you seeing this fulfilled? Keeping in mind, Jesus is the speaker in that verse, which means He did indeed say what you highlighted, but He also said what you neglected to highlight. One can't be expected to find the true meaning of something if they are only considering half of what someone said rather than all of what someone said combined.

 

[His student]

The "Greater Israel Project" is the modern State of Israel's plan to gain control of the entire Middle East by de-stabilizing its neighbors.

I don't believe there is an "Jewish conspiracy" to rule either the entire world or the middle east.

Having clearly said that - I can't think of a much better future for the Middle East and the Muslim nations surrounding Israel than having the modern State of Israel gain complete control of the entire region. Heck - throw in the continent of Africa as well.

 

[Justified112]

How does God identify and distinguish His Chosen People?

1. Their DNA
2. Their religion
3. Their culture
4. Their faith and obedience in and to His Son

?

The chosen people are those who are of the 12 tribes of Jacob, pure and simple. That's the only definition the Bible offers for how we are to understand who His chosen people are.

In God's New Will and Testament,

all covenants and promises are fulfilled in Christ and those who are in Christ.

The Bible doesn't say that. In fact, that doesn't even make sense. How would promises that speak of curses of diseases, captivity, poverty, exile, etc. be "fulfilled" in Christ???

The OT covenants and promises are the promissory clauses of God's Old Will and Testament, and they are both revoked and fulfilled in the promissory clauses of His New Will and Testament, written in the Blood of His Son Jesus Christ, the Divine Testator, coming into full force and effect upon His death.

If you have made your own Will and Testament, you will see that the very first clause states the following or its equivalent:

"I HEREBY REVOKE all former Wills and other testamentary dispositions by me at any time therefore made and declare this to be my Last Will and Testament."

Except that nowhere in the Bible is the Abrahamic Covenant (the covenant of promise) was ever revoked. Nor is the covenant to David ever spoken of as being revoked. You are trying to pencil something that the Bible doesn't say. You cannot superimpose our modern legal will & testament on to the Bible and force the Bible to follow that unbiblical pattern.

If God revokes all of His promises in the OT, to Israel, namely those promises that speak to the prophetic future of Israel and their restoration to their ancient homeland, if God revokes those promises, then God cannot be trusted to keep His promises.

Your position makes God to be a liar. God makes promises knowing that He will not keep them, that he will revoke them. How can we trust God for our eternal salvation? How do we know that the promises of God to the Church will be kept if God has a history of revoking His promises????

Allowing the Old Covenant to pass away in order to establish the New Covenant is NOT revocation or abrogation of God's promises to Israel. The Old and New Covenants are different administrations of God's Word. The NT does not revoke God's promises to Israel/Judah in any shape or form.

 

[Justified112]

Who were the Zionists which bombed the King David Hotel during 1946, murdering 91 people in the process?

It was called an act of "terrorism" at the time.

Who was the leader of the organization which "conspired" to bomb the building, and who later became prime minister of the modern State of Israel?

King David Hotel bombing - Wikipedia

.

The King David Hotel in 1946 was being commandeered by the British as a military headquarters. The bombing was that of a military target at the time.

 

[BABerean2]

The King David Hotel in 1946 was being commandeered by the British as a military headquarters. The bombing was that of a military target at the time.

Were all of the 91 people killed in the King David Hotel "military targets"?
Are you claiming the bombing of that hotel was justified because it was occupied by our allies, the British?

Was the U.S.S. Liberty a "military target" on June 8, 1967?

.