Israel's future and Pat: Your view

[Edial]

An orthodox preterist is the same thing as a partial preterist. I believe in a coming of Christ at 70 A.D.... but I don't believe that the final judgment or general resurrection have passed.

Wgat is thena full preterist?
But regardless ... you believe that the 2nd coming of Christ actually happened?
Can you prove that?

Or do you believe that we will see another coming of Christ after the 70 a.d.?

Ed

 

[Scholar in training]

You mean a full preterist ... you believe that the 2nd coming of Christ actually happened?

Ummm... no, I don't. Like I said, I'm an orthodox preterist. The "coming" at 70 A.D. was not the Second Coming. It wasn't even a literal "coming" of Christ, the "coming" refers to one judgment. See this page.

 

[Edial]

Ummm... no, I don't. Like I said, I'm an orthodox preterist. The "coming" at 70 A.D. was not the Second Coming. It wasn't even a literal "coming" of Christ. See this page.

It says this ...
The core proof point for us is that we take Jesus' warning of things taking place in "this generation" to clearly mean that they must take place within the next 40 years. Such time texts are a cornerstone for the preterist case.

But the word generation has 2 usages in Greek.
One is 30-40 (?) years and the other one of a "type, or a kind" of people.
It is quite straightforward.

Ed

 

[Scholar in training]

It says this ...
The core proof point for us is that we take Jesus' warning of things taking place in "this generation" to clearly mean that they must take place within the next 40 years. Such time texts are a cornerstone for the preterist case.

But the word generation has 2 usages in Greek.
One is 30-40 (?) years and the other one of a "type, or a kind" of people.
It is quite straightforward.

Ed

I'm aware of this, but the argument for partial preterism isn't that simple. On that page there is a counterpoint to the objection you've just raised. The wording that Jesus uses is time-oriented and would be anachronistic if applied today (much like the horsemen in Revelation).

 

[Edial]

I'm aware of this, but the argument for partial preterism isn't that simple. On that page there is a counterpoint to the objection you've just raised. The wording that Jesus uses is time-oriented and would be anachronistic if applied today (much like the horsemen in Revelation).

Well since I need to run now and I would not have time to go into the Dictionary.com for "anachronistic" ... see you tomorrow.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[icxn]

The coming of Christ is the manifestation or rather the Revelation of His Divinity, which took place for the chief Apostles on mount Tabor (cf. Transfiguration), for many Saints over the centuries and will eventually happen for all humanity at some point in the future... some are already experiencing it, for them the book of revelation has mystically been fulfilled.

Man is the Eschatological index not History.

 

[Scholar in training]

Well since I need to run now and I would not have time to go into the Dictionary.com for "anachronistic" ... see you tomorrow.

I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not... "Chrono" is from the Greek for "time" and the prefix "ana" means "not". When something is anachronistic, it doesn't fit the timeperiod. It would be anachronistic for Christians today to flee the Tribulation from their flat roofs, or to pray that the Tribulation would not occur during the winter when the transportation revolution has eliminated travel difficulties during winter months.

 

[Tishri1]

Grafting into the Israel of Faith.



Clearly you have never sat down and compared the Chritian litugies with the Jewish liturgy. If you had, you would not make such an uninformed statement.

Aside from that, what do think "neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female" means? I am under no obligation to worship like the ancient Jews did (cf. also Rom 14 & Col 2).



What? Why are almost all the [edit: original question edited]

Tishri1 -- This is the last thing I'm going to say to you...I am not -- and have never been -- "missing" anything in my faith.

obviously and that is why I said PS I AM NOT TALKING TO JUST ONE PERSON...I knew you would respond like I was, but sorry I wasn't talking to just you

you go on and enjoy your little self over there and have fun doing all the things you enjoy......some others who really want to know what their missing will find out what the church was missing by rejecting the Messianic Jews and seek to find out more...

 

[GraceInHim]

obviously and that is why I said PS I AM NOT TALKING TO JUST ONE PERSON...I knew you would respond like I was, but sorry I wasn't talking to just you

you go on and enjoy your little self over there and have fun doing all the things you enjoy......some others who really want to know what their missing will find out what the church was missing by rejecting the Messianic Jews and seek to find out more...

sorry for the words of judging on here

 

[Tishri1]

Nothing was changed because of antisemitism. The first step towards accepting Gentiles was taken by the Apostles themselves in Acts 15 and Galatians 3; the pagan calendar was later adopted by the Empire as a form of triumph over the old pagan ways. The same concept applies to wedding rings and icons (which frequently used pagan imagery, like halos, as a signal of ideological triumph. It was a way to say to people, "look to biblical figures, not pagan figures"). No theology was changed.

exuse me? Jesus told us to adopt the pagan Calendar and ignore God's calendar? I don't think so...I'm not talking about the Jews accepting Gentiles...I'm talking about the Gentiles rejecting Jews here check this out:

http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/mine/timeline.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Anti-Semitism

 

[Fotios]

obviously and that is why I said PS I AM NOT TALKING TO JUST ONE PERSON...I knew you would respond like I was, but sorry I wasn't talking to just you

you go on and enjoy your little self over there and have fun doing all the things you enjoy......some others who really want to know what their missing will find out what the church was missing by rejecting the Messianic Jews and seek to find out more...

Yeah like we really need the Judaizing heresy. We need circumcision and all that mmmhm suuuuurrrreeee we do.

 

[Tishri1]

obviously and that is why I said PS I AM NOT TALKING TO JUST ONE PERSON...I knew you would respond like I was, but sorry I wasn't talking to just you

you go on and enjoy your little self over there and have fun doing all the things you enjoy......some others who really want to know what their missing will find out what the church was missing by rejecting the Messianic Jews and seek to find out more...

Yeah like we really need the Judaizing heresy. We need circumcision and all that mmmhm suuuuurrrreeee we do.

see there you go , you know absolutely NOTHING about Messianic Jews (Paul the Favorite Apostle being one of them) and are content to just say if it has the word "Jew" in it, then it is wrong! Jesus was a Jew...is he wrong? Peter was a Jew... is he wrong?

Circumcision has nothing to do with salvation in the Messianic Jew's mind but you wouldn't know that obviously, as you are content to stay in the dark... well then please at least don't make up lies about them while your sitting there in the shadows

 

[Scholar in training]

exuse me?

Do you like to type in big letters so people can see what you're reading?

Jesus told us to adopt the pagan Calendar and ignore God's calendar?

We have been through this before, Tishri. It would not have made sense for certain aspects of Judaism to be a standard throughout Europe (and beyond) because much of it was limited to the Promised Land, and the rest was fulfilled in Christ.

I don't think so...I'm not talking about the Jews accepting Gentiles...

I brought that up to show that the Apostles did not think the Jewish calendar, Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, etc. as binding upon Christians. Unless they too were antisemitic, which is preposterous considering that many of them were Jews.

I'm talking about the Gentiles rejecting Jews here check this out:

And this has nothing to do with the four aspects of Judaism that I listed above.

 

[Fotios]

see there you go , you know absolutely NOTHING about Messianic Jews (Paul the Favorite Apostle being one of them) and are content to just say if it has the word "Jew" in it, then it is wrong! Jesus was a Jew...is he wrong? Peter was a Jew... is he wrong?

Circumcision has nothing to do with salvation in the Messianic Jew's mind but you wouldn't know that obviously, as you are content to stay in the dark... well then please at least don't make up lies about them while your sitting there in the shadows

Jesus followers were called "Christians" first in Antioch...so we are Christians..

Yes Jesus WAS a Jew, till the Jews Killed him, or more correctly the Pharisaical Jews killed him.

 

[Jesus Is Real]

Isaiah 26:16-20 16 O LORD, they sought Thee in distress; They could only whisper a prayer, Thy chastening was upon them. 17 As the pregnant woman approaches the time to give birth, She writhes and cries out in her labor pains, Thus were we before Thee, O LORD. 18 We were pregnant, we writhed in labor, We gave birth, as it were, only to wind. We could not accomplish deliverance for the earth Nor were inhabitants of the world born. 19 Your dead will live; Their corpses will rise. You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits. 20 Come, my people, enter into your rooms[kheder-wedding chamber], And close your doors behind you; Hide for a little while, Until indignation runs its course.

Isa 26:16-21
16 LORD, in trouble have they visited thee, they poured out a prayer when thy chastening was upon them.

17 Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O LORD.

18 We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen.

19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
KJV


yeh and this scripture tells us morethis is definately talking about the End Times but did y'all know there is a day that this points to?

Tishri1,

Yes,.....it's as well to all who are God's True Israel.

God has to show things in the Natural to see it how it's done in the Eternal. God has already shown this picture through The Church--made up of some Gentiles (has become Israel for believing) and Jew's (believing Israel).

The Church is not the body of only Gentile believers.

What will happen to the believing Israel, in time, will be what we As the Bride already have Experienced God in our Midst as King and Lord of our lives.

This isn't a only isolated event for the the "future believing Israel".
Both you and I can say this has happened to us,.....but yes it will happen to the Natural Tree as well if they don't remain in unbelief. And I have all mercy for them,...and my prayer is for Israel that they will be saved. God has reserved 7000 men who has not bowed the knee to Baal. PRAISE GOD. The Witness even in Prophecy, mainly has got to be TO WITNESS ABOUT CHRIST IN OUR LIVES. This will draw jealousy to Israel, if we will speak in purity as God is more so cleaning our hearts. The Church as a whole is still very much in an Apostate manner. Because we strive over things even for a some how defense of Israel. Even for myself, I've striven way too much here. My mercy for them and for all is to be my Banner, not my defense---for this mostly turns into strife and contention. I at least am admitting my own lack of understanding.

Something like that,.....

We must hear Isaiah,.....In our Spirit-man who is In Christ right now. Or we will stay in strife.

Bless you.
And Have a good night.
My husbands home.
In His Love,
Connie

 

[Jesus Is Real]

Jesus followers were called "Christians" first in Antioch...so we are Christians..

Yes Jesus WAS a Jew, till the Jews Killed him, or more correctly the Pharisaical Jews killed him.

WE ALL KILLED CHRIST BY OUR SINS WHICH HE TOOK UPON HIMSELF FOR OUR JUSTIFICATION,........BUT WHAT WE DIDN'T KNOW IS THAT JESUS GAVE HIS LIFE,...........NO MAN TOOK IT FROM HIM.

GOD DID THIS TO SAVE US, THOSE WHO WILL BELIEVE.

 

[Mary_Magdalene]

Isrel ands the palistinians have to learn to live together.

There is no other way.

And America needs to be far more consistant about who and when it invades for ignoring security council resolutions.

Or is Uncle Sam just afraid of Isreal?

Oh no. Silly me.

No oil.

we dont import from Israel.

U.S. Imports from Persian Gulf Countries (million barrels per day)

Country Imports

Iraq 0.470
Kuwait 0.205
Saudi Arabia 1.724
United Arab Emirates 0.010
Total 2.409

Source: EIA, Monthly Energy Review, March 2004.



I guess you got your information from the BBC....

 

[Fotios]

George W. Bush and the confusions of Evangelical Zionism
'Born again' president seems to think support for Israel is god's will


Misinterpretation of biblical concepts has dangerous consequences, makes it tougher for Palestinians to reclaim their rights
By Adib F. Farha
Special to The Daily Star
Tuesday, July 20, 2004
Analysis
The rapid rise of Evangelical Zionism has become more alarming since the ascent to power of US President George W. Bush, who appears to firmly believe that his blind support of Israel is a fulfillment of God's will, and with the numerical growth of "Christians for Israel"-type organizations. Bush's support emanates both from a religious foundation as well as from electoral politics. Evangelical Zionists, who fall under several denominations, are estimated to count as many as 40 million Americans. This formidable bloc of voters represents a significant additional incentive to the "born again" president to adopt extreme pro-Israeli positions even when they are contrary to America's national interests.
On the surface, well-meaning, God-fearing Christians, who might not be sufficiently well-versed in the Bible and who might take certain selectively retrieved verses at face value, would be tempted to go along with America's blind support of Israel. Taking the literal interpretation at face value, they believe Israel has a "manifest destiny" to possess Palestine.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=15&article_id=6397

 

[ThreeAM]

WE ALL KILLED CHRIST BY OUR SINS WHICH HE TOOK UPON HIMSELF FOR OUR JUSTIFICATION,........BUT WHAT WE DIDN'T KNOW IS THAT JESUS GAVE HIS LIFE,...........NO MAN TOOK IT FROM HIM.

GOD DID THIS TO SAVE US, THOSE WHO WILL BELIEVE.

 

[Jesus Is Real]

Just being broken more by His love every day it seems.

Thank you for your Kind words and hearing the heart of issues.

Good night and I'm now going to bed with my husband.

Bless you ThreeAM.

In His Love,
Connie