Israel's future and Pat: Your view

[Jesus Is Real]

Thank you,,, That spirit of his words are coming still..

And right after, his disciples came to him, "Tell us Teacher, when will the end of age be" and this is when Jesus starting talking about the signs and how they would be as birth pangs.. any woman knows these feelings.. where things become closer and frequent, raise your head up, for your redemption is near.. In Jesus name

Oh yeah I remember so clear when my time was near and my sons birth was close......even at the door. We women do know this all too well.

 

[Jesus Is Real]

Vatican: Parts of David’s Tomb to Be Under Papal Control

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]from different news agenices.. studying this, since this has to do with Israel and the thread is about Israel.​

​

Seems to be a done deal, something Israel signed in the Onslow Agreements..


[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://www.isfsp.org/zion-docs.html
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=91526
http://www.barrychamish.com/html/zion_coveted_rome.htm

I would like to know - WHY DOES ROME WANT THIS LAND?[/FONT][/FONT]

This stuff, even the bad, it all has to play it self out.
It's going to get bumpy from here, little ones.

There is a Spiritual side (that's Eternal here) of even the prophecies, but this thread is not the place for it.
But Those who are Spiritual must consider this.
Lest we miss our own Visitations in our moments towards The Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Jesus Is Real]

Peace to all those who are honestly trying to understand, I love you.

Let us not strive here, for God's got it all in His Power.
But we must FIRST receive His Power to tell the World about Jesus and His Salvation
that some might hear and be saved by God merely using us, per chance!
There's no strife in JESUS, nor should be IN HIS PEOPLE.

Hubby's gone to bed.....I'm now outta here.
God Bless you all!


Let us also Pray for The Peace of Heavenly Jerusalem (The Church adorned for Her Bride Groom).


In His love,
Connie

 

[Tishri1]

Oh yeah I remember so clear when my time was near and my sons birth was close......even at the door. We women do know this all too well.

yeh and this scripture tells us more

Isaiah 26:16-20 16 O LORD, they sought Thee in distress; They could only whisper a prayer, Thy chastening was upon them. 17 As the pregnant woman approaches the time to give birth, She writhes and cries out in her labor pains, Thus were we before Thee, O LORD. 18 We were pregnant, we writhed in labor, We gave birth, as it were, only to wind. We could not accomplish deliverance for the earth Nor were inhabitants of the world born. 19 Your dead will live; Their corpses will rise. You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits. 20 Come, my people, enter into your rooms[kheder-wedding chamber], And close your doors behind you; Hide for a little while, Until indignation runs its course.

this is definately talking about the End Times but did y'all know there is a day that this points to?

 

[Fotios]

This is Replacement Theology and is completely False. G-d has not "replaced" Israel with the Church. Jesus did not come to start a new religion. Salvation is of the Jews. Salvation came Through the Jews. Salvation is From the Jews. Say it however you want, Jesus is Jewish and that's just the way it is.

False in your Darbyite fantasies.
But i stand with my amillenialist orthodox Brothers and say That this Theology is True.

 

[KEPLER]

Kepler,

Just don't curse the Jew's when they start the Sacrifices going again. They are doing this because IT IS WRITTEN whether you believe it's for this time or not,....it's GOING TO HAPPENING.

It wasn't when they sacrificed a pig on the altar.

What shall be the sign of thy coming and what shall be the sign of the end of the world?

70 years, after Christ, wasn't those times, if they are your doctrine is right and The Apostle Paul is walking here now IN THE FIRST RESURRECTION. Which has then been now over the 1000 YEAR REIGN. And we know this isn't the case. Holy Scripture bears this out, re-read Matt. 24:1 through 35 at least.

You tell us words like "dum",....pretty strong words but,...but you never tell us what you believe?

Should the Jew's just stop being moved into wanting their Temple rebuilt to have the Daily Sacrifices made,....they have to do this--it's Written for them to pursue this. It's a move of God, they are still under the Law, since they don't see Jesus yet. But what ever they do do,.....we are to have a working Knowledge of Scripture to see that Daniel, in the last days (in the last week), will come to pass. They are moved, BY HOLY SCRIPTURE to accomplish this. It's also appearing that the fulness of the Gentiles are about to come to it's close.

What it shows us is that Jesus is coming soon, even so much at the door. If this is not what you are persuaded with, then ok have that in peace with yourself and have peace with us.

But to make sarcasm remarks does not make your point it's makes another ones point at which case you don't understand who's point it is making. But let me tell you this, 'being Sarcastic' to those of the Faithful in Jesus Christ is Pride.

I bless you to reconsider your ways with us here, in your sarcastic remarks, please leave that for another forum. I'm asking in Kindness.

Peace to you as you and I seek More His Face.

Hey HAVE A GREAT EVENING,....President Bush speaks tonight!!!

Connie

I said dum-dee-dum; I did NOT say dumb-dee-dumb.

As for my beliefs, I believe what the Church has believed for 2000 years:

"He will come again in Glory to judge the living and the dead, and his Kingdom shall have no end."

Kepler

 

[KEPLER]

Physical Israel and the Jews have been replaced by the Church and Christians. The Old Covenant has Passed and the New Covenant has been Inaugerated, God's people are those people inside his churches.

Fotios,

Actually the amillenial position does not usually use the word "replace". We see the the "Church" (aka, the "assembly, Greek: ekklesia) as being the true and Spiritual continuation of the "Congregation" (aka, the "assembly", Hebrew: qahal) of the Old Tesament. IOW, Peter, Paul and the rest of the gang are True Israel (the Israel of Faith), while the Jews who rejected Jesus are "Israel of the Flesh".

There were never any promises made to Israel of the Flesh. All the promises of the OT were made to the Israel of Faith, which are the true seed of Abraham.

The Israel of Faith and Israel of the Flesh co-existed for thousands of years, just as the wheat and weeds grew in the same field. (Matt 13:24-30) Unbelieving Jews (just like unbelieving Gentiles) are weeds.

Israel of the Flesh have been pruned off, while non-Jews who believe in the Messiah are grafted into the Israel of Faith.

All of the OT blessings are given to the Israel of the Faith, and all of the curses were taken out on Christ on the Cross.

God, however, has not turned His back on those who are members of the Israel of the Flesh. They are still welcome in His Kingdom, but they must now come in through the only door remaining, which is Christ. When they do, "All Israel (of the Faith) will be saved. "

God has always had, currently has, and will only ever have ONE PEOPLE: his "assembly" (ekklesia=qahal).

So there's no actual replacement, per se. There is a stripping off (of the Israel of the Flesh), and a grafting in (of those who were strangers; gentiles).

Other than this minor quibble...keep up the good work!

Kepler

 

[Tishri1]

This stuff, even the bad, it all has to play it self out.
It's going to get bumpy from here, little ones.

There is a Spiritual side (that's Eternal here) of even the prophecies, but this thread is not the place for it.
But Those who are Spiritual must consider this.
Lest we miss our own Visitations in our moments towards The Lord Jesus Christ.

You know we have a friend over there right now she use to be a missionary and now she lives there and she sends us regular reports from Israel (she lives 10 minutes from the old part of Jerusalem) here is her latest letter to us

Shalom Faithful Ones,

Life as I knew it to be, even in the past several months, will never be the same. I am reminded of this as I sit here at a café to use the internet and see a police van block off the road to check for suspicious people. I am reminded of this as I watch the Palestinians rally in Gaza over the recent elections. I am reminded of this as I speak to friends who are searching the city for suspected potential suicide bombers. I am reminded of this as I go through double security just to get on my bus. I am reminded of this as I grow further and further away from home and adapt to my new home… a home with a prophetically tumultuous future.

What is it like to speak with friends about normal things like jobs and family? I do not know anymore, for my friends speak of war and future concerns. This suits me well, as you all know. I was never one for small-talk. I would have talked about God until 3AM on any given day. Yes, this culture suits me just fine!

The climate has shifted. And the world watched in horror as a known terrorist faction (Hamas) became the official political party of the Palestinians. I hope the USA makes me proud and will hold fast to the belief that they will not negotiate with terrorists. I hope that the rest of the world will consider the effects of such an event. I hope, I hope, I hope… or else I could never live in such a country.

Dark days are ahead. Prophecies are unraveling, the hands of the clocks are spinning and the world as we know it, or knew it, will never be the same. Of this I am sure. What we knew yesterday, we will not know tomorrow. I groan in the spirit words which I do not know, words that only Abba knows as He nods His head in understanding. The time is near… no, the time is here.

And it's time to get serious.

Days of deception are ahead. My words may sound negative, I know, but they are realistic. If I could show you what I see, if I could uproot you and plant you in this city for one day… if if if! Instead, you will have to trust the report I give you. Our long-awaited Messiah is coming! Prepare the Way! Do something drastic for Him. You won't regret it. Do it now!

Hamas is in power, as it was predicted. Tiny Israel needs your prayers and support! Talk about it with your congregations, pray with your families and consider supporting Israel in any creative way God reveals to you! The harvest is ripe… which leads me to my next story.

I asked you all to pray for Tomer, my police friend, since he agreed to go to "the deepend" with me. He came that night and was so deeply affected by what he saw and heard that we got into another huge discussion about Yeshua. I even showed him "The Passion of the Christ" (please spare me those of you who doubt the power of the movie) and it has spurred him into a head-on pursuit to know Yeshua! Tomer is reading his Bible, asking me a billion questions and is even talking to his police unit. This week there is a unit dinner and they asked me to come and speak to them because they have many questions! They are not only reading the book of Psalms I gave him, but they are reading another book as well that discusses the prophecies of the Old Testament that speak of Yeshua as Messiah and also Endtimes events! After the deepend, Tomer told me he had never seen people our age worship God like that. He said something was missing in his life, that he wanted to know where he "fit into all of this." Please pray for Tomer as he searches! This is amazing! Also, pray for Tomer as his unit will be forced to evacuate yet another Jewish settlement tomorrow. This is very dangerous and they need your prayers. Pray for their safety.

The longer I am here, the less I have in common anymore with anything outside of Israel. It's amazing how I have adapted to things and I only could do it through the grace of God and my love for Israel. Life for me requires standing on packed buses and praying that the Arab with a large coat on is not a suicide bomber. Life for me requires speaking a language I didn't know a word of just months ago. Life for me requires standing in long lines and walking long distances with heavy bags just to get groceries. Life for me means waiting an hour for the water to heat up so I can take a shower and lighting ten matches before I can get a flame to heat my burners so I can cook food! Sometimes I giggle at myself because everything is such a process! One time I couldn't get the burners lit and fell into a laughing fit by myself on the floor. Life is not easy and now I know how truly easy I had it before. But what is life if you don't have to work for it? You don't learn from it or appreciate it as much. When the water is hot for my shower, when there happens to be one seat left on the bus, when my grocery bags don't break, I am reminded that yes, life is just so good! And what an honor it is to serve the Almighty in His favorite land!

Eh, I can save the mansion for eternity.

Right now, I have a job to do.

This is Erin reporting live from chaotic ISRAEL…

Erin use to be a moderator here before she moved to Israel and loves all sooo much you can get her updates and read all her past adventures too here

http://www.christianforums.com/t189...e-all-love-reloaded.html&page=11#post21683096

 

[Tishri1]

So there's no actual replacement, per se. There is a stripping off (of the Israel of the Flesh), and a grafting in (of those who were strangers; gentiles).

Kepler

Grafting into what? If it doesn't look even a tiny bit Jewish then something was replaced!....Yeshua didn't replace Torah, Festivals, Hebrew Prayer, Teachings and Idioms and even Synagoge life ; with Greek or Roman looking things...but man did...

I'm not saying that things have to look exactly the way it was when He was alive BUT I am saying, it was changed ON PURPOSE by gentile antisemetic bullies(Rulers) who wanted nothing Jewish to remain in Christianity.....MEN DID THIS, NOT JESUS!

If you are really grafted into Israel and partakers of the sap of the root, then there should at least be some desire to connect to our Messianic Jewish Brothers and Sisters ;and find out what we've been missing without them all these years...I'm sure in reaching out to them we will be a blessing to them as well...(we NEED each other )

PS I'm not talking to just one person here but to each of us, and hopefully to the heart of each of us...

 

[KEPLER]

Grafting into what? If it doesn't look even a tiny bit Jewish then something was replaced!....Yeshua didn't replace Torah, Festivals, Hebrew Prayer, Teachings and Idioms and even Synagoge life ; with Greek or Roman looking things...but man did...

Grafting into the Israel of Faith.

I'm not saying that things have to look exactly the way it was when He was alive BUT I am saying, it was changed ON PURPOSE by gentile antisemetic bullies(Rulers) who wanted nothing Jewish to remain in Christianity.....MEN DID THIS, NOT JESUS!

Clearly you have never sat down and compared the Chritian litugies with the Jewish liturgy. If you had, you would not make such an uninformed statement.

Aside from that, what do think "neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female" means? I am under no obligation to worship like the ancient Jews did (cf. also Rom 14 & Col 2).

If you are really grafted into Israel and partakers of the sap of the root, then there should at least be some desire to connect to our Messianic Jewish Brothers and Sisters ;and find out what we've been missing without them all these years...I'm sure in reaching out to them we will be a blessing to them as well...(we NEED each other)

What? Why are almost all the [edit: original question edited]

Tishri1 -- This is the last thing I'm going to say to you...I am not -- and have never been -- "missing" anything in my faith.

 

[Fotios]

[/b]
What? Why are almost all the women in this thread incapable of saying anything logical?

Good question

 

[Fotios]

This is Replacement Theology and is completely False. G-d has not "replaced" Israel with the Church. Jesus did not come to start a new religion. Salvation is of the Jews. Salvation came Through the Jews. Salvation is From the Jews. Say it however you want, Jesus is Jewish and that's just the way it is.

Thank you for confirming my definition..
I will now post it to Urbandictionary.com.. to have a wider use of it.

 

[KEPLER]

Good question

Ohhhh, my question was quoted...now I'm toast.

K

 

[Scholar in training]

Grafting into what? If it doesn't look even a tiny bit Jewish then something was replaced!....Yeshua didn't replace Torah, Festivals, Hebrew Prayer, Teachings and Idioms and even Synagoge life ; with Greek or Roman looking things...but man did... I'm not saying that things have to look exactly the way it was when He was alive BUT I am saying, it was changed ON PURPOSE by gentile antisemetic bullies(Rulers) who wanted nothing Jewish to remain in Christianity.....MEN DID THIS, NOT JESUS!

Nothing was changed because of antisemitism. The first step towards accepting Gentiles was taken by the Apostles themselves in Acts 15 and Galatians 3; the pagan calendar was later adopted by the Empire as a form of triumph over the old pagan ways. The same concept applies to wedding rings and icons (which frequently used pagan imagery, like halos, as a signal of ideological triumph. It was a way to say to people, "look to biblical figures, not pagan figures"). No theology was changed.

 

[Edial]

False in your Darbyite fantasies.
But i stand with my amillenialist orthodox Brothers and say That this Theology is True.

One of the things I could never grasp was the amillenialism.

Just a comment.

Ed

 

[Scholar in training]

One of the things I could never grasp was the amillenialism.

If it helps, I never understood the rapture.

And as a Lutheran, I'm sure you know that your denomination is traditionally amillenial.

 

[Edial]

If it helps, I never understood the rapture.

You mean the rapture itself or the basic 3 views of it?

And as a Lutheran, I'm sure you know that your denomination is traditionally amillenial.

They might very well be. I am not.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Scholar in training]

You mean the rapture itself or the basic 3 views of it?

Both. I am an orthodox preterist.

They might very well be. I am not.

Thanks,
Ed

Ok.

 

[Edial]

Both. I am an orthodox preterist.

Are you a full preterist or a partial one?
In other words, do you believe that Christ came already?

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Scholar in training]

Are you a full preterist or a partial one?
In other words, do you believe that Christ came already?

Thanks,
Ed

An orthodox preterist is the same thing as a partial preterist. I believe in a coming of Christ at 70 A.D.... but I don't believe that the final judgment or general resurrection have passed.