Israeli Plan to take over much of the Middle East?

[BABerean2]

Which is the symbolism: two human witnesses or the phrase two olive trees and two candlesticks? My senses say the two human witnesses are the literal terms. The other terms are the symbolic way to say what the two humans represent to God.

Jesus answers your question below.

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.


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[Timtofly]

Jesus answers your question below.

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.


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No, that is 7 candlesticks. We are talking about 2 olive trees and two candlesticks. Keep looking....

 

[BABerean2]

No, that is 7 candlesticks. We are talking about 2 olive trees and two candlesticks. Keep looking....

Are you denying Jesus said "candlesticks" are a symbol of the churches in the Book of Revelation?
(See Revelation 1:20)


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[Timtofly]

Are you denying Jesus said "candlesticks" are a symbol of the churches in the Book of Revelation?
(See Revelation 1:20)

Wrong question. God does not say who the two olive trees and two candlesticks are. Which two churches are you assuming?

 

[BABerean2]

Which two churches are you assuming?

The New Covenant Church is made up of a wild olive tree grafted into a cultivated olive tree, based on what Paul said below?


Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?


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[Timtofly]

The New Covenant Church is made up of a wild olive tree grafted into a cultivated olive tree, based on what Paul said below?


Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?


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So which 4 churches are the two witnesses?

Enoch/Elijah from the pre-flood and return of Elijah? Moses from the congregation of Mt. Sinai? John the beloved and Revelator, and one after the Reformation?

 

[BABerean2]

So which 4 churches are the two witnesses?

When you are presented with what Paul said about the Church being made up of two olive trees in Romans 11:1-28, why would you ignore what the Apostle Paul said and keep asking the same question based on a false premise?


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[Timtofly]

When you are presented with what Paul said about the Church being made up of two olive trees in Romans 11:1-28, why would you ignore what the Apostle Paul said and keep asking the same question based on a false premise?

Because Revelation says 4 churches. Are you stumped? You explained 7 historical churches. Paul says there "is" two olive trees, and you are still short 2 churches, no? You are short 3, because grafting into one, is still 1.

 

[BABerean2]

Because Revelation says 4 churches. Are you stumped? You explained 7 historical churches. Paul says there "is" two olive trees, and you are still short 2 churches, no? You are short 3, because grafting into one, is still 1.

Are you claiming the 7 churches in the Book of Revelation have no connection to the two olive trees in Romans 11?


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[Timtofly]

Are you claiming the 7 churches in the Book of Revelation have no connection to the two olive trees in Romans 11?

You claimed the 7 candlesticks were the 7 churches in Asia. I agreed. What else are you claiming about those 7 churches?

 

[BABerean2]

You claimed the 7 candlesticks were the 7 churches in Asia. I agreed. What else are you claiming about those 7 churches?

I did not claim anything about those 7 churches in Asia Minor.
Jesus Christ revealed that truth in Revelation 1:20.


I did not claim anything about the two olive trees being grafted together to form the Church of Jesus Christ.
The Apostle Paul revealed that truth in Romans 11:1-28.


Based on the words of Jesus and Paul, there is a connection between Revelation 1:20, and Romans 11, and Revelation 11:4.

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[Timtofly]

I did not claim anything about those 7 churches in Asia Minor.
Jesus Christ revealed that truth in Revelation 1:20.

I did not claim anything about the two olive trees being grafted together to form the Church of Jesus Christ.
The Apostle Paul revealed that truth in Romans 11:1-28.


Based on the words of Jesus and Paul, there is a connection between Revelation 1:20, and Romans 11, and Revelation 11:4.

You insinuated that the two witnesses could only be churches. You did not claim anything and refuse to answer which 2 churches. Since you have no clear answer on if they are the 2 olive trees or 2 candlesticks, then a simple answer would do, no?

Are they two churches and their members in the US? Why would only two churches have to sit out the 42 months? When a person starts claiming they represent the church, it is error. It says 2 witnesses. Then it says 2 olive trees and 2 candlesticks. 2 and 2 equal 4, and 4 is not symbolic of 2 is it? If Christ and the 144k are not the two witnesses because Christ would not lay dead for 3 days again, and the 144k only do and go where Christ goes, why would 2 church congregations, or billions of humans (the completed church) be the two humans during that 42 month period?

 

[BABerean2]

It says 2 witnesses.

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.


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[Timtofly]

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

So not a Church, just two humans. I agree.

 

[BABerean2]

So not a Church, just two humans. I agree.

Do you believe they are two humans made of wood and metal?


Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.


Not "a Church", but "the Church", as in the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ.
(See Romans 11, and Revelation 1:20, if you are still confused.)


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[Timtofly]

Do you believe they are two humans made of wood and metal?
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Not "a Church", but "the Church", as in the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ.
(See Romans 11, and Revelation 1:20, if you are still confused.)

I think you are the one confused. Your attempt at being literal failed, because even you rejected it was the church, but just two humans:

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

If this is true, only those martyred are the church. Any one who lives in such a way, they die naturally, cannot have been in Christ.

But more to the point, that is individual thought process, not the church as a whole. God does not call all the church to that one task of being martyred. The church is not just made up of martyred humans. The body of Christ has many different functions. Since you fail at pointing out 2 congregations, then it can only be two humans. Is the 1000 years a literal 1000 years by your logic that the 2 witnesses have to be wood and metal? 1000 in Revelation 20 is the symbolic term of 1000 because John did not link 1000 to any other symbolic term other than itself, 1000.