Israeli News thread

[ebedmelech]

We are pretty much in agreement except for the above.

Rom 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,


All I see this verse saying is that not all Israelites are truly part of Israel...


What I don't see is where it says Gentiles are called anything other than gentile or Christian.

Sure, we are fellow heirs to the promise, and I see "why" you are making the connection, but the Bible would come out and say it if It wanted Christians to call themselves Israel.


Just how I see it..

Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

This is why the basis for the apostle's teaching here...is rooted in Romans 2:28, 29:
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

The point again is the "true Jew" is one who is a Jew by the Spirit.

The parallel would be that Abraham has fleshly descendants and Spiritual descendants...BUT is is the Spiritual descendants that are true Israel.

*The "fleshly descendants" are circumcised in the flesh.

*The "Spiritual descendants" are circumcised in the heart.

*The fleshly descendants have the praise of men.

*The Spiritual descendants have the praise from God.

This is the true parallel as Paul says in Galatians 4:

*The earthly Jerusalem is in bondage with her children.

*The Jerusalem above is free, she is our mother.

The parallel is Romans 9:7
7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.”

to Galatians 4:28:
28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.

Galatians 4:29-31 makes the final point:
29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.
30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son,
For the son of the bondwoman shall not be an heir with the son of the free woman.”
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

 

[Shocker]

This is why the basis for the apostle's teaching here...is rooted in Romans 2:28, 29:
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

The point again is the "true Jew" is one who is a Jew by the Spirit.

The parallel would be that Abraham has fleshly descendants and Spiritual descendants...BUT is is the Spiritual descendants that are true Israel.

*The "fleshly descendants" are circumcised in the flesh.

*The "Spiritual descendants" are circumcised in the heart.

*The fleshly descendants have the praise of men.

*The Spiritual descendants have the praise from God.

This is the true parallel as Paul says in Galatians 4:

*The earthly Jerusalem is in bondage with her children.

*The Jerusalem above is free, she is our mother.

The parallel is Romans 9:7
7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.”

to Galatians 4:28:
28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.

Galatians 4:29-31 makes the final point:
29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.
30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son,
For the son of the bondwoman shall not be an heir with the son of the free woman.”
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

I suppose I understand the premise of what you are saying.

But if this is in anyway suppose to convince me that the Jews in Israel are not going to complete the prophecy by coming to Christ, then I would say we disagree.

There are many false doctrines with people claiming to be the Jews, thusly diminishing the validity of the rightful Jews in Israel.

The BHI, GOCC and HR are just a few examples of satanic anti Jew doctrine.

 

[Interplanner]

Israelis should be in their land, but it is not prophetic fulfillment for them to be there as the NT sees it. We need constitutional republics in that part of the world!

 

[ebedmelech]

I suppose I understand the premise of what you are saying.

But if this is in anyway suppose to convince me that the Jews in Israel are not going to complete the prophecy by coming to Christ, then I would say we disagree.

There are many false doctrines with people claiming to be the Jews, thusly diminishing the validity of the rightful Jews in Israel.

The BHI, GOCC and HR are just a few examples of satanic anti Jew doctrine.

What prophecy?

 

[Shocker]

What prophecy?

Amo 9:14 I will restore the fortunes of my people Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and eat their fruit.


Amo 9:15 I will plant them on their land, and they shall never again be uprooted out of the land that I have given them," says the LORD your God.

As it is written.

 

[ebedmelech]

Amo 9:14 I will restore the fortunes of my people Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and eat their fruit.


Amo 9:15 I will plant them on their land, and they shall never again be uprooted out of the land that I have given them," says the LORD your God.

As it is written.

Are you aware that in Acts 15 the apostle James is telling you how that prophecy is to be fuflilled? Acts 15:13-18:
13 After they had stopped speaking, James answered, saying, “Brethren, listen to me.
14 Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name.
15 With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written,
16 ‘After these things I will return, And I will rebuild the tabernacle of David which has fallen, And I will rebuild its ruins, And I will restore it,
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,’
18 Says the Lord, who makes these things known from long ago.

That prophecy doesn't look to what you think.

 

[Shocker]

That prophecy doesn't look to what you think.

Sure it does.

The Gentiles didn't return to Israel, the Jews did in 1948. And Amos was written by and for the Jews to read and know, it wasn't addressed to Christian gentiles, that would be impossible.

Just as verse 14 states, the Jews returned to Israel in and in fact completed every prophecy in verse 14.

Amo 9:14 I will restore the fortunes of my people Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and eat their fruit.

Amo 9:15 I will plant them on their land, and they shall never again be uprooted out of the land that I have given them," says the LORD your God.

We know verse 15 is not a past prophecy because Israel was in fact uprooted from Israel in 70ad by Rome.

And since there were no Jews in Israel until 1948, we know its obviously a future prophecy..

 

[ebedmelech]

Sure it does.

The Gentiles didn't return to Israel, the Jews did in 1948. And Amos was written by and for the Jews to read and know, it wasn't addressed to Christian gentiles, that would be impossible.

Just as verse 14 states, the Jews returned to Israel in and in fact completed every prophecy in verse 14.

Amo 9:14 I will restore the fortunes of my people Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and eat their fruit.

Amo 9:15 I will plant them on their land, and they shall never again be uprooted out of the land that I have given them," says the LORD your God.

We know verse 15 is not a past prophecy because Israel was in fact uprooted from Israel in 70ad by Rome.

And since there were no Jews in Israel until 1948, we know its obviously a future prophecy..

That's not the picture.

The first thing one should do is establish the time of the prophecy. Amos tells us that in Amos 1:1:
The words of Amos, who was among the sheepherders from Tekoa, which he envisioned in visions concerning Israel in the days of Uzziah king of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam son of Joash, king of Israel, two years before the earthquake.
Based on Amos telling us when this is we know these things:
the Kingdom is still divided as Israel (Jeroboam is King), and Judah (Uzziah is King). We can nail this period down in scripture as 2 Kings 15 and 2 Chronicles 26.

From this we know Amos is not prophesying about this day...he is prophesying about the downfall of Israel to Assyria. if one reads the entire prophecy, Chapters 7 & 8 is pretty graphic about this prophecy.

This restoration occurred as Nehemiah and Ezra rebuilt the temple and the city.

Verse 9:11...the restoration of the fallen booth of David...we read James say in Acts 15 that it was fulfilled in Christ. Amos is simply prophesying the same thing Joel 3 does.

The Old Covenant ends with Jesus instituing the New Covenant..from there it's not about Israel or Jerusalem at all.

I already know you think it is...so I'll leave it here. This thread will do as all the others trying to make a big deal out of Israel...because nothing will happen.

We should be more concerned about Jews turning to Christ than being in Israel...because Jerusalem IS ABOVE!!!

 

[Interplanner]

Well done, EbedM

 

[Shocker]

We should be more concerned about Jews turning to Christ than being in Israel...because Jerusalem IS ABOVE!!!

That's great and all.. Until you realize that no time the Jews were in Israel before 70ad were they not "uprooted".

So far this is the only time in history that the Jews could not be "uprooted" as the past has shown them to be uprooted time and time again.

Amo 9:15 "I will also plant them on their land, And they will not again be rooted out from their land Which I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

Its written, and God is not a liar.

 

[Bible2]

Shocker said in post 145:

Amo 9:15 I will plant them on their land, and they shall never again be uprooted out of the land that I have given them," says the LORD your God.

Amos 9:15 could refer to what will happen at Jesus' 2nd coming (Isaiah 9:7, Amos 9:11). For Amos 9:14-15 was spoken before the taking of the northern kingdom of Israel into captivity (Amos 8:14, Amos 5:27) by the Assyrians in 722 BC. And so Amos 9:14-15 was spoken before the southern kingdom of Judah was taken into captivity by the Babylonians in 586 BC. But Amos 9:14-15 didn't apply to the post-Babylonian Captivity restoration of the Jews to their land in 538 BC, for that restoration was subsequently destroyed by a Roman-empire army in 70 AD. So Amos 9:14-15 doesn't necessarily apply to the subsequent restoration of the Jews to their land in 1948 AD either. This restoration could be destroyed by the Baathists in a future war (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"), at the start of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. Jesus will restore the Davidic kingdom of Israel (Luke 1:32b-33, Isaiah 9:7, Amos 9:11) at his 2nd coming (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21), which will occur immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).

 

[Bible2]

ebedmelech said in post 146:

Are you aware that in Acts 15 the apostle James is telling you how that prophecy is to be fuflilled? Acts 15:13-18:
13 After they had stopped speaking, James answered, saying, “Brethren, listen to me.
14 Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name.
15 With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written,
16 ‘After these things I will return, And I will rebuild the tabernacle of David which has fallen, And I will rebuild its ruins, And I will restore it,
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,’
18 Says the Lord, who makes these things known from long ago.

Note that Acts 15:14-17 doesn't say or mean that Amos 9:11-12 is "fulfilled", only that the basic principle of the salvation of Gentiles "agrees" (Greek "sumphoneo", G4856) with the idea of Amos 9:11-12, and only as it was understood by the (fallible) individual quoted in Acts 15:14-17. A different way of understanding Amos 9:11-12 is by looking at the original Hebrew: Amos 9:11-12 can mean that the house of David will be restored to power and will possess Edom (present-day southern Jordan) and all other nations. This will be fulfilled during the coming millennium, which won't occur until after Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21). Jesus is of the house of David (Luke 1:69, Matthew 1:1), and so at his return, he will restore the house of David to power by sitting on the throne of David (Luke 1:32, Isaiah 9:7, Isaiah 16:5) and ruling the earth (Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11).

 

[NannaNae]

I went to youtube to see if anyone there has any good ideas and I like this guy's turkey idea and the 7 hills are the 7 churches is great . that I also have never heard a decent idea about yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cq340CtbW4

really I could go into great detail as to why those 7 churches are gentile churches but I won't it will take to long.
just suffice to say if men didn't believe science-tism veiw of history you would easily see why those churches are gentiles. ( not to say that some lost israeli's isn't hiding there because they were scattered everywhere and he said everywhere and meant it) no matter what some scien-pontifcator / intellectual-ish/ book seller might say about it !

 

[Shocker]

Imam: Arab Legions Should Attack Jaffa and Haifa - Middle East - News - Israel National News

 

[Shocker]

Netanyahu Seeking to Give David's Tomb to Vatican? - Jewish World - News - Israel National News

 

[vao]

as for me the real capital of the Jewish state Haifa

 

[Interplanner]

Vao,
before you support that, can you support dealing with any modern news items as prophecy events? How?