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Israel-Hamas Thread II

Landon Caeli

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The [some] Palestinians have to stop killing and being evil..! This evil is too persistent, and merciless. It's way, way too much.
 
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essentialsaltes

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You can only get attacked so many times before *consequences*. If you attack me 1500 times in 50 years, I'm gonna do something to you.

Maybe I'll even confiscate your land! Maybe that won't stop you from attacking me, in which case I have to do something else. You see how this works.
Okie doke, boss, but you're making my case for me about who's being the Nazis here.
 
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rjs330

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Or perhaps you don't.

Genocide is the intent to destroy a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group in whole or in part, as defined by the 1948 UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. It involves acts such as killing members of the group, causing serious harm, inflicting conditions calculated to cause destruction, preventing births, or forcibly transferring children. The term was coined by Raphael Lemkin, derived from the Greek "genos" (race) and Latin "cide" (killing), and it is a crime under international law.

Key Aspects of Genocide
  • Intent to Destroy: The most crucial element of genocide is the specific intent to destroy a targeted group.

    • Protected Groups: The definition applies to national, ethnic, racial, and religious groups.
    • Specific Acts: The convention lists five prohibited acts that, if committed with genocidal intent, constitute genocide:
        • Killing members of the group.
        • Causing serious bodily or mental harm.
        • Deliberately inflicting conditions of life intended to bring about physical destruction.
        • Imposing measures to prevent births within the group.
        • Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
The only group Israel is trying to destroy is HAMAS. If they would surrender rhe war would end. That is NOT a genocide.
 
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rjs330

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Okie doke, boss, but you're making my case for me about who's being the Nazis here.
Yup. Hamas and their Palestinian supporters. Those are clearly rhe NAZIS. I think they are worse than Nazis.
 
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Benaiah468

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The only group Israel is trying to destroy is HAMAS. If they would surrender rhe war would end. That is NOT a genocide.

Those who commit genocide no longer want to share the earth with a particular other people. It should be clear who intends to do this in the Middle East.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Those who commit genocide no longer want to share the earth with a particular other people. It should be clear who intends to do this in the Middle East.
Correct.

Israel is in talks to possibly resettle Palestinians from Gaza in South Sudan

TEL AVIV, Israel (AP) — Israel is in discussions with South Sudan about the possibility of resettling Palestinians from the Gaza Strip to the war-torn East African country, part of a wider effort by Israel to facilitate mass emigration from the territory left in ruins by its 22-month offensive against Hamas.

That's ethnic cleansing.
 
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Benaiah468

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Israel is in talks to possibly resettle Palestinians from Gaza in South Sudan

TEL AVIV, Israel (AP) — Israel is in discussions with South Sudan about the possibility of resettling Palestinians from the Gaza Strip to the war-torn East African country, part of a wider effort by Israel to facilitate mass emigration from the territory left in ruins by its 22-month offensive against Hamas.

That's ethnic cleansing.

In the aftermath of WWII, over 12M Germans were expelled from Eastern Europe between 1945-50. At least 3.5M of them came from the Sudetenland (modern-day Czechia). Imagine, if instead of being resettled in Germany, they were denied German citizenship and forced to live in refugee camps for generations. Over the years those refugees start calling themselves the "Sudeten" nation and claim ownership over the Sudetenland but also the entire Czechia. Due to natural population growth, the "Sudeten" nation would now number over 10M, exceeding the population of Czechia.

Yet that is precisely what happened with the "Palestinians". The "Palestinians" regarded themselves as Arabs or "Syrians" until at least 1960s. They were content to be ruled by Jordan and Egypt between 1948-67. However, the Arab states (except Jordan) explicitly refused to integrate "Palestinians". The Arab League Resolution 1547 (9 Mar 1959) explicitly ordered its member states not to give "Palestinians" citizenship, in order to avoid dissolution of their identity and protect their rights to return to their "homeland". As opposed to the UN Refugee Agency (UNHCR), which resettled 50M refugees in the last half-century, the Arab states set up up a separate agency, UNRWA, whose mandate doesn't include resettlement at all. UNRWA then repeatedly changed the definition of "refugee" to accommodate more "Palestinians" with each passing year.

Of course, the circumstances of the 1947-48 war in "Palestine" differ from those of the German refugees. Unlike the 12M Germans who were explicitly forced to leave, historians (e.g. Benny Moris) assert that only 10-15% of the "Palestinians" were directly expelled by the IDF forces. Another 15-25% were ordered to leave by the Arab leaders, and the rest fled out of a general fear of hostilities. While at least 2M German civilians died in the process, the total civilian death count in 1947-48 was ~800. Despite losing the war in the early months, the Israeli leadership didn't have a centralised plan to expel "Palestinians", and many were allowed to remain, now making up 21% of its population. However, overall the analogy still holds.
 
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Benaiah468

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So how did it all begin?

In May 1948, the local Arab population was joined by seven Arab countries in a collective attempt to destroy the newly reestablished Jewish state. Encouraged by Arab leaders who promised they would return as victors, and later on as a result of their failed war efforts, an estimated 500000 Arabs fled to neighboring Arab territories.

But is this the full picture?

I’d like you to take a look at the refugees in these photos

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Many people assume they are Arab refugees fleeing Israel. But in fact, they are innocent Jewish refugees forced out of Arab countries.

There were far more Jewish refugees than Arab refugees. Over 850000 Jews from ancient Jewish communities predating Islam and the Arab occupation of the Middle East where forced out of their homes. Jews were stripped of their citizenship in many countries, and their porperty was confiscated.

In contrast, 160000 Arabs accepted Israel’s offer to remain, and today, there are more than one million Israeli Arab citizens with full equal rights living in Israel.

Now here is a question.

Have you heard of any Jewish refugee camps?

I didn’t think so.

The jewish refugees were immediately welcomed and absorbed by Israel or by other nations.

Then why, after more than 60 years, are the Arab "Palestinian" refugees still not welcomed and absorbed among their own brethren?

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And how could their numbers have grown from 500000 to 4700000 million?

The sad reality is that the arab refugees never had a chance.

Attempts at resettlement were blocked by a variety of discriminatory laws.

Enacted in Arab countries, such as a ban on receiving citizenship (with the exeption of Jordan), blocking them from entering many professions, restrictions on owning land, restrictions on movement and a denial of education and health services.

Sir Alexander Galloway, a former director of the UN Refugee Agency in Jordan, gave the reason for this discrimination

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Egyptian President Gmal Abdel Nasser explained the effect of this weapon aimed at overwhelming Israel demographically, with generations of refugees cultivated to hate


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And what role did the United Nations play?

Sadly, they were less than helpful.

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While all refugees in the world are assisted by the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), a separate agency, UNWRA, was established specifically for the "Palestinians"

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Why can’t the "Palestinian" refugees share an agency with the refugees of Bosnia, Congo, or Darfur, to name a few?

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The answer ist because while the UN Central Refugee Agency helps refugees resettle, the UN "Palestinian" Refugee Agency helps perpetuate their status by applying unique criteria.

For example refugees lose their status after receiving citizenship frm a recognized country. "Palestinian" refugees do not. Refugees cannot transmit their status from generation to generation. "Palestinian" refugees can. Refugees are encouraged to resettle in other countries or integrate in their host countries. UNWRA avoids such policies. The United Nations spends on a single "Palestinian" refugee almost three times more than on a non-"Palestinian" refugee and employs over 30 times the staff.

The bottom line is, throughout the 20th century, the UN found durable solutions for tens of millions of refugees, while the "Palestinian" Refugee Agency has found, well, none.

Some people may suggest this is hypocrisy.

600000 Jews from Arab states were resettled in Israel. History has proven that resettlement and integration helped tens of millions of refugees during the 20th century reclaim their lives.

However, the "Palestinian" refugees are trapped between Arab leaders unwilling to accept their brothers and UN agencies who do not apply equal and universal principles to all refugees.

Is this just?
 
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