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Of course it is. That's why they are using human shields. They want civilians to die so that people will tell Israel to stop attacking. Israel is in an impossible situation with some people. If they can't to the impossible then people blame them. No one is standing up and blaming Hamas. No it's all Israel's fault it is said.The IDF's current approach is self-defeating. High numbers of civilian casualties and severe damage is precisely what Hamas wants.
How do you know it's excessive? Are some great military strategist? Are you intimately aware of military intelligence of Hamas and Israel?wasn't talking specifically about Gazans in that paragraph, but considering that so many Palestinians have witnessed the deaths of their loved ones as a result of the IDF's excessive bombing campaign, there's little doubt this is going to radicalize a great number of Palestinians and many who sympathize with them.
Actually the Israelis are the Palestinians. That was their slave name for 1900 years or so, named that by the Romans who derived the name from "Philistines." Arafat stole the name to use for propaganda purposes.The Palestine Liberation Organization is the officially recognized government of State of Palestine which includes Gaza.
Israel can defeat Hamas, they just need to change their stratagy.According to you and others like you Hamas wins if Israel goes after them. They also win if Israel does nothing.
Yes, thousands of years, with almost no population growth. Interestingly, when Israel got involved, hundreds of thousands of Arabs moved in and started calling themselves "Palestinians".
But to be honest, it parallels the American native story quite a bit, except they were not really compensated since, like those peopling that part of the Ottoman empire, they lived in "tents". A hundred years ago this would have been easy. One country finally attacks the other, wins, and to the victor goes the spoils of war. In fact, this was attempted by the local Arabs in the 1948-49 war but they lost. And the lost at a time when that form of acquiring real estate was finally, in the history of man, going out of favor.
Israel hasn't been able to defeat Hamas by strategy up until now. What strategy do you have that has been proven effective against terrorist organizations?Israel can defeat Hamas, they just need to change their stratagy.
Native Americans have been recognized as sovereign nations by the US federal government and were granted full US citizenship over a century ago. Has Likud done anything similar for Palestinians? No. Palestinians are not considered Israeli citizens, because the current Israeli government believes in Jewish supremacy.
I outlined a winning strategy in this post.Israel hasn't been able to defeat Hamas by strategy up until now. What strategy do you have that has been proven effective against terrorist organizations?
Why would Palestinians be considered Israeli citizens? They live in Palestine.
Continuation of the thread closed on 4 Nov 23: Hamas-Israel News Thread
Updates regarding the conflict between Israel and Hamas.
I outlined a winning strategy in this post.
And it is supported by research.
Terrorist groups end for two major reasons: Members decide to adopt nonviolent tactics and join the political process (43 percent), or local law-enforcement agencies arrest or kill key members of the group (40 percent). Military force has rarely been the primary reason for the end of terrorist groups (7 percent), and few groups since 1968 have achieved victory (10 percent).
Most terrorist groups that have ended did so by pursuing their goals through politics. The possibility of a political solution is linked to a key variable: the breadth of terrorist goals. Most terrorist groups that end because of politics seek narrow policy goals, such as policy change, territorial change, or regime change.
Poor economic conditions may heighten grievances, which provide a more supportive environment for terrorist groups and increase their longevity. Grievances are difficult to measure independently of terrorism, but measures of average levels of discrimination are feasible. Some argue that greater economic inequality creates broad grievances that favor terrorism. “Governments that fail to meet the basic welfare and economic needs of their peoples and suppress their liberties... This means that terrorist groups tend to last longer in poor countries. If so, one way to end terrorism is to improve the economic condition of countries where terrorism is most prevalent.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7249/mg741rc
Israel pulled their settlers and left Gaza, letting Gaza self govern, all they wanted was peace. The Palestinians begged for money and concrete for their infrastructure, they used it for rockets and tunnels to kill Jews. They self govern, they are not Israeli citizens. They have built tunnels to their schools and hospitals so they can fire rockets and if Israel retaliates they can say Israel targeted schools and hospitals. There is absolutely no excuse for Hamas, no justification whatsoever. They put rockets next to U.N. facilities too I see:Native Americans have been recognized as sovereign nations by the US federal government and were granted full US citizenship over a century ago. Has Likud done anything similar for Palestinians? No. Palestinians are not considered Israeli citizens, because the current Israeli government believes in Jewish supremacy and rejects a multi-ethnic state and liberal democratic values.
Israel pulled their settlers and left Gaza, letting Gaza self govern, all they wanted was peace. The Palestinians begged for money and concrete for their infrastructure, they used it for rockets and tunnels to kill Jews. They self govern, they are not Israeli citizens. They have built tunnels to their schools and hospitals so they can fire rockets and if Israel retaliates they can say Israel targeted schools and hospitals. There is absolutely no excuse for Hamas, no justification whatsoever. They put rockets next to U.N. facilities too I see:
Israel says these photos show Hamas rockets in and near U.N. facilities in Gaza
Israel has accused Hamas militants in Gaza of committing "double war crimes" by not only firing rockets at civilians, but firing them from and near United Nations-run facilities.www.yahoo.com
Great little interview with a senior Hamas official who explains that it's their "legal right" to fight against the Israelis....and that in addition to the October 7th massacre, a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th attack are all coming.
What's the appropriate response to such a hostile neighbor who refuses to recognize your own right to exist?
I outlined a winning strategy in this post.
And it is supported by research.
Terrorist groups end for two major reasons: Members decide to adopt nonviolent tactics and join the political process (43 percent), or local law-enforcement agencies arrest or kill key members of the group (40 percent). Military force has rarely been the primary reason for the end of terrorist groups (7 percent), and few groups since 1968 have achieved victory (10 percent).
Most terrorist groups that have ended did so by pursuing their goals through politics. The possibility of a political solution is linked to a key variable: the breadth of terrorist goals. Most terrorist groups that end because of politics seek narrow policy goals, such as policy change, territorial change, or regime change.
Poor economic conditions may heighten grievances, which provide a more supportive environment for terrorist groups and increase their longevity. Grievances are difficult to measure independently of terrorism, but measures of average levels of discrimination are feasible. Some argue that greater economic inequality creates broad grievances that favor terrorism. “Governments that fail to meet the basic welfare and economic needs of their peoples and suppress their liberties... This means that terrorist groups tend to last longer in poor countries. If so, one way to end terrorism is to improve the economic condition of countries where terrorism is most prevalent.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7249/mg741rc
Opinions vary on that. (obviously)The Nazis were state actors operating at the direction of the state. Hamas is a terror group that forced its rule on the people of Gaza outside of the political process. Hamas operates independently of the recognized government of the Palestinian territories and is a non-state actor. The reason the distinction between the two is important is because many people believe that military force is the answer to defeating Hamas and are supporting Israel's current response to the October 7th terror attack based on that assumption. What works when fighting standing armies doesn't work when fighting terrorist groups.
Military force works on state actors because once the state accepts defeat, the attacks committed by the state end. With terror groups, military force has the opposite effect. When a military response to a terror group is too overwhelming, like we are seeing now in Gaza, it only benefits the terror group. They will gain legitimacy among the people affected by the military campaign, which often leads to more support and more recruits to carry out future attacks.
The only way to defeat Hamas is to recognize this difference and for Israel and the international community to respond to them in the appropriate way. I gave an example of the proper response to Hamas in this post.
There is no such thing as a Palestinian. It's a fake name, at this point, for Arabs. And LOTS of "Palestinians" have Israeli citizenship.Native Americans have been recognized as sovereign nations by the US federal government and were granted full US citizenship over a century ago. Has Likud done anything similar for Palestinians? No. Palestinians are not considered Israeli citizens, because the current Israeli government believes in Jewish supremacy and rejects a multi-ethnic state and liberal democratic values.
Hamas doesn't have a navy or an air force and saying they have an army is a huge stretch - nothing like as well organised or well armed comparatively (weapons have been modernised) as either Germany and Japan. They haven't taken over any other countries. Ok they've killed a few thousand but Germany and Japan killed millions - much higher proportions of the populations they attacked. Ehud Barak has said Hamas does not pose an existential threat to Israel as a whole - though they will continue to want to mount atrocities in Israel. Presumably they want to make it so Israelis want to leave though their rhetoric is that Israel won't force them out of Gaza,Yeah. Hamas and Gaza are not as big so they don't need to use as much ordinance and troops. But Hamas and Gaza are the same thing as the others. Just smaller. Their target is Israel. And the key point is that Hamas is to Gaza what the Nazis were to Germany.
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