Israel-Hamas Thread II

Robban · Nov 20, 2023

essentialsaltes said:
Just as a reference point, Gaza is smaller in area than Manhattan Island.

All the more reason to observe what is in Mishnah Torah;

When a siege is placed around a city (in this case a tiny Gasa)
to conquer it,
it should not be surrounded on all four sides,
only on three.
A place should be left for it's inhabitants to flee and for all those who desire to escape with their lives.

Consideration should be taken to todays reallity, hospitals for example are not evacuated in a coffee break.

Vanellus · Nov 20, 2023

Carl Emerson said:
Well, that is one way you avoid the evidence I guess...

You haven't explained how footage apparently showing Hamas taking two hostages into the al Shifa hospital leads to the conclusion that Hamas dictates to the Gaza Ministry of Health

Vanellus · Nov 20, 2023

Carl Emerson said:
So... what is your point ?

" I'm asking whether it makes a difference if you are Christian or Muslim if you lie more or less"
The Bible indicates that both Christians and Muslims can lie and dubious understanding of Islam does not change this.

Vanellus · Nov 20, 2023

Chesterton said:
Yes, it's just, even though the result is unjust. You have to separate the micro and the macro. Let me explain...

Take a typical American Joe in 1942. He's a shoe salesman, or a car mechanic or whatever. A civilian. He gets drafted into a war that he had nothing to do with starting. He's sent to some foreign place and dies a painful, violent death fighting for a piece of real estate he has no interest in. Is that just? Of course not. He's not blameworthy in any way. But is the fighting that he's engaged in to defeat the Axis Powers just? Yes. Just one of the many reasons why war sucks, and no one should start one, as Hamas did.

The conflict started in 1948 if not earlier.

Chesterton · Nov 20, 2023

Valletta said:
Excellent! After you said that I looked it up and he did learn on a flight simulator. I have met a number of great pilots, from Paul Tibbets to Robbie Risner, but have a limited knowledge of aviation.

Tibbets? Interesting.

Chesterton · Nov 20, 2023

Vanellus said:
The conflict started in 1948 if not earlier.

You should re-read my post. I'm sure you're the only person here who doesn't know which conflict I was referring to when I said 1) an American drafted 2) in 1942 3) to fight against the Axis Powers. As for the conflict you're referring to, yes it started much earlier than 1948. It was started by Muhammad in the 8th century.

Robban · Nov 20, 2023

Chesterton said:
You should re-read my post. I'm sure you're the only person here who doesn't know which conflict I was referring to when I said 1) an American drafted 2) in 1942 3) to fight against the Axis Powers. As for the conflict you're referring to, yes it started much earlier than 1948. It was started by Muhammad in the 8th century.

Shabbatai Zevi (1626-1676) the Messianic imposter who succeeded in deluding thousands of Jews that he was the long-awaited Messiah
He ultimately converted to Islam.

So my question is,
I Islam older than Muhammad?

I am not familiar with Islam but thought it was based on Ismael.

civilwarbuff · Nov 20, 2023

Bradskii said:
You seem to think that the reported deaths are acceptable. I guess that's the only response available. It's the only conclusion I can make.

It is the path that the Gazans chose. Sorry about their bad decision but that's on them and no one else.

civilwarbuff · Nov 20, 2023

Pommer said:
It’s not like they have oodles of land for a military complex, things are tight in the Gaza Strip, a piece of land about a quarter of the size of the City of Los Angeles.

Actually, I don't believe there are supposed to be ANY military complexes in Gaza. Guess that's why hamas became snakes in the ground.

Chesterton · Nov 20, 2023

Robban said:
Shabbatai Zevi (1626-1676) the Messianic imposter who succeeded in deluding thousands of Jews that he was the long-awaited Messiah
He ultimately converted to Islam.

So my question is,
I Islam older than Muhammad?

I am not familiar with Islam but thought it was based on Ismael.

The Arab peoples come from Ishmael. They are some of the first Christians, mentioned in the New Testament Book of Acts. Muhammad invented Islam much later.

civilwarbuff · Nov 20, 2023

Vanellus said:
Do you think then that, if Netanyahu said that God had commanded him to wipe out all Gazans, that you would believe him i.e. that God had actually spoken thus to Netanyahu.

I answered it in #738. Please try to pay attention to my responses.......

civilwarbuff · Nov 20, 2023

Vanellus said:
By pushing the question away from what is happening in Gaza into what happened in OT times this becomes a question about OT events and so is not relevant to this thread.

So you are not willing or able to answer the question. That's all you had to say; it would save people a lot of time in reading your otherwise evasive responses.

civilwarbuff · Nov 20, 2023

Vanellus said:
It's very hard to prove a negative although easy to state it
Hiroshima: Military Voices of Dissent | Origins

And you will find 10X that number very happy that it was used......especially the men who were going to have to invade Japan. Think you could stomach 1,000,000+ American casualties (estimated by the Pentagon) and many times that Japanese (mostly civilian) casualties. That would have been a catastrophe that all others would be measured by.

civilwarbuff · Nov 20, 2023

Vanellus said:
Only Israeli lives matter then - do you agree?

The Gazans made their own bed; now they get to sleep in it. Too bad their children have to suffer for their parents stupidity. This might be a case where the sins of the fathers ARE visited upon the sons.
Only Gazan lives matter then - do you agree? (see, I can do that too)

civilwarbuff · Nov 20, 2023

Desk trauma said:
I can almost hear the giddiness.

Robban · Nov 20, 2023

civilwarbuff said:
The Gazans made their own bed; now they get to sleep in it. Too bad their children have to suffer for their parents stupidity. This might be a case where the sins of the fathers ARE visited upon the sons.
Only Gazan lives matter then - do you agree? (see, I can do that too)

Ezekiel 18:1-2
The whole chapter has healing under it's wings.

Vanellus · Nov 20, 2023

Bombs and missiles are expensive but there are cheaper, though less dramatic ways of killing people in Gaza as the former head of the Israeli National Security Council explained n a Hebrew article in the printed edition of the centrist Yedioth Ahronoth titled “Let’s not be intimidated by the world"

“The international community warns us of a humanitarian disaster in Gaza and of severe epidemics. We must not shy away from this, as difficult as that may be. After all, severe epidemics in the south of the Gaza Strip will bring victory closer and reduce casualties among IDF soldiers”

But of course he is being cruel to be kind just like the headmaster who has a wide selection of well used canes with which to beat young pupils. This will hurt you more than it hurts me etc.

And no, this is not about cruelty for cruelty’s sake, since we don’t support the suffering of the other side as an end but as a means.

Believe that and you'll believe anything an Israeli official says.

https://mondoweiss.net/2023/11/influential-israeli-national-security-leader-makes-the-case-for-genocide-in-gaza/#:~:text=Major%20General%20Giora%20Eiland%20argues,will%20"bring%20victory%20closer.”

Can you now see a good reason to render hospitals in Gaza inoperable? For instance, people with severe injuries cannot get proper treatment and so die of their injuries when they would otherwise live. Amputations done without anaesthetic.

Patients operated on without anaesthetic in Gaza as WHO runs out of medicine

Some doctors performing operations without anesthesia in Gaza, World Health Organization says

Some doctors in Gaza have been performing operations, including amputations, without anaesthesia, a World Health Organization spokesperson said Tuesday.

Valletta · Nov 20, 2023

Vanellus said:
The conflict started in 1948 if not earlier.

The conflict started around 1022 B.C.

Vanellus said:
Can you now see a good reason to render hospitals in Gaza inoperable? For instance, people with severe injuries cannot get proper treatment and so die of their injuries when they would otherwise live. Amputations done without anaesthetic.

Hamas has not yet rendered the hospital inoperable. The Israelis need to stop Hamas from killing patients and allow the doctors to continue their work.

Vanellus · Nov 20, 2023

Vanellus said:
The conflict started in 1948 if not earlier.

It seems you didn't read your own post properly since you wrote in it:
"Yes. Just one of the many reasons why war [is bad], and no one should start one, as Hamas did." I've replaced your use of an offensive word.
I think you'll find the small number of Jews and Muslims coexisted much more peacefully in Palestine for many centuries prior to the 20th century.

Vanellus · Nov 20, 2023

civilwarbuff said:
I answered it in #738. Please try to pay attention to my responses.......

Actually I wrote post #738 - you seem to be very confused now.

In post #639 you wrote:
"BTW, I don't believe God has anointed Netanyahu a prophet to Israel.....not yet at least......." but that is neither yes or no.

Israel-Hamas Thread II

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