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Whew the delusions are strong in these arguments. They are so far gone that I don't forsee any reason to try and counter any of them. It is so unreasonable that it's obvious there would no hope of having a reasonable conversation.He stated that he took a side in the video you posted. So, you've already posted a complete and utter fantasy.
Ok, Kisin tries a rather lame attempt at an argument from first principles. However, he falls flat on his face in complete failure before he even starts. When arguing from first principles, one needs to question the principles first. He doesn't even try. He calls the Al Aqsa Deluge deluge a terrorist attack which it wasn't.
The right of Palestinians to defends themselves is enshrined in the 1949 Geneva Convention. The Palestinian attack on the military of Israel was a protected right.
Israel does not have the right to protect itself under the Geneva Convention and is required to protect the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank under the Geneva Convention.
Let's look at a famous city battle - Stalingrad - the city was basically razed to the ground by the end of the battle.
High estimates are 70,000, but let's go over the top and round that number to 100,000.
Number of dead on Hitler's side? 150,000 - 250,000 - not counting the ones that died in Captivity.
Number on Stalin's side? They claim 1.1 Million, but lets half that to 500,000.
Hopefully you can do math. Clearly, Hitler and Stalin cared more about avoiding civilian casualties than Israel has. Do you consider Hitler and Stalin to be good people?
So, I do wonder where that made up number for the "average" comes from - probably the same liars which made up the 2:1 ratio - Israel.
So, about the 2:1 ratio. What does a die-hard "DO YOU CONDEMN HAMAS!" pro-Israel type think?
Doesn't sound like he even buys that horse manure. But, I'm open minded. Go ahead and give me the list of the names of the 15,000 or so Hamas fighters Israel has killed. Just the names - I won't even ask you to prove that they were Hamas which is what is required under Geneva convention. See, I can give you a list:
Are you able to present a list? Or are your "Empirical Facts" just a fantasy you've copied and pasted from Israel.
You obviously think the Al Aqsa Deluge was justified. Or did you think before posting the above comment.
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Ok, you're reposting fantasies from Israel again.
Israel did not stop occupying Gaza in 2005. Israel turned it into a concentration camp which they fully controlled. Look - another book Zionists won't read: The Biggest Prison on Earth - Ilan Pappe.
Israel controlled what came into the concentration camp and what came out of the concentration camp. Hamas was offered the chance to give up its arms and choose a peaceful political life. Hamas agreed and ran for office. Hamas won. Israel got butt-hurt and proceeded to punish the Palestinians. Hamas and Fatah made peace in 2006 and Israel immediately responded by punishing Fatah. Hamas only took what limited control the prisoners were left with - which wasn't much.
Hamas had no control over who entered or left Gaza, what was allowed into or out of Gaza, cell phone service, electricity, most of the water, or anything. Think of two prisoners in a prison cell and someone points out one prisoner rules over the other - it really doesn't mean anything and it's really silly to have pointed it out.
Every country in the world except Israel considers Israel to have continuously occupied Gaza since 1967.
Now, you starting the name-calling.
Whaaaah! "Hamas is evil!" Whaaaah!
How does this justify murdering thousands of toddlers? For me it doesn't. But I'm curious how do the minute crimes you list - even if true - mean that you and others should murder thousands of toddlers? Just Curious.
I'm not happy with everything every Palestinian has ever done. But I'm also not happy with Police in the U.S. murdering its citizens.
You are arguing that I should start bombing hospitals when a see a policeman there because the policeman is obviously using the hospital as a human shield?
Hamas has repeatedly asked Israel for peace under the 1967 borders.
Hamas presents new charter accepting a Palestine based on 1967 borders
Document aims to heal divisions within Palestinian movement and ease peace process but Netanhayu says: ‘Hamas is attempting to fool the world’www.theguardian.com
Never happened.
Israel waged a war of aggression on Egypt, Jordan and Syria in 1967. This is a well established fact.
Straight up straw man there.
You do know he is a self-professed Son of Satan, right?
He refers to Jesus as a rebel who got killed for his trouble . . . Do you agree with that?
Th UN plan didn't give anyone anything. It was nothing more than a suggestion.
The founding document is filled with tons of lies as befitting such a document. Have you ever bothered to read it?
This says it all:
"WE APPEAL to the United Nations to assist the Jewish people in the building-up of its State and to receive the State of Israel into the comity of nations."
The founding document is nothing more than propaganda to get U.N. approval for their state. I means nothing in Israel and carries absolutely no legal weight in the state of Israel.
Israel began massacring, raping, and pillaging the Palestinians in 1947 and continued into 1949. The Jordanian King actually colluded with the Israelis to obtain the West Bank. The Egyptian King only participated after he felt his people were going to revolt.
There was no war in 1947-8, there was simply the murder, rape and pillage of Palestinians by the European colonists who later called themselves Israelis.
As a red-blooded American, I know that no government has the right to exist - It's in the Declaration of Independence.
As to living side-by side, the Israelis don't want to live in peace and that is an option they have which Palestinians don't.
As stated before - no. The 1949 Geneva convention gives the Palestinians the right to defend themselves.
Hamas is a resistance organization fighting against Israel. Just like Israel, Hamas has at times resorted to terrorism - especially in the late 80s and early 90s.
As stated before, the Declaration of Independence declares that no government has the right to exist. But I'll go further. My lord and savior Jesus has specifically stated that Israel is Satanic and ruled by Sons of Satan.
John 8:44 NLT
For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies.
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Yes. There are other atrocities happening around the world. However, my government is forcing me to pay for the bombs which Israel uses to murder toddlers and continue to oppress Palestinians - including the Palestinian Christians there.
Two wrongs do not equal a right.
Christians have had a benefit of being more likely to be able to obtain entrance to foreign countries than a Muslim. However, Israel sometimes still finds a way to murder them.
As for why Jews left the Arab countries to go to Israel. Israel forced them to leave. Too many European Jews wanted to go to the U.S. instead of Israel and Israel was trying to force all the countries to send them their Jews even if the countries didn't want them to leave. You know that historian whose books you absolutely refuse to read? Ilan Pappe - he was the child of the parents whom Israel demanded.
Much of the world is saying that about Israel.Whew the delusions are strong in these arguments. They are so far gone that I don't forsee any reason to try and counter any of them. It is so unreasonable that it's obvious there would no hope of having a reasonable conversation.
I seriously hope no one else tries either.
The hatred in the arguments, lies and distortions are beyond any semblance of reality.
Rebuild for them whom God of Israel will bring back to life.Why rebuild if the population is decimated?
Except that the God of Israel can rebuild and restore life while the god of terrorists cannot.Israel is just like the terrorists they claim they are destroying.
Nobody has loved them more than Israel did. Nobody can ever love them more than Israel does.This is clearly an attempt by Israel to wipe Palestinians in Gaza off the face of the earth.
I first wanted to reply to this video and your unsubstanciated claims. In fact I find it a strange arguement in using such a video. Your using a video to show how Isreal is indecriminately killing Christians compared to Hamas and other Muslim nations.Yes. There are other atrocities happening around the world. However, my government is forcing me to pay for the bombs which Israel uses to murder toddlers and continue to oppress Palestinians - including the Palestinian Christians there.
Two wrongs do not equal a right.
I said up until the video he had stayed out and did not take sides. Now he is. But in doing so he used good reasoning to determine his position. That is what the video is about.He stated that he took a side in the video you posted. So, you've already posted a complete and utter fantasy.
Yes he does. Do you know what 1st principles are. Its simply breaking down the issue into its most basic form. He explained that. From this he derived 4 basic arguements used against IsrealOk, Kisin tries a rather lame attempt at an argument from first principles. However, he falls flat on his face in complete failure before he even starts. When arguing from first principles, one needs to question the principles first. He doesn't even try.
Are you kidding. Are you saying the launching of 5,000 rockets and the attack on innocent Irealis celebrating Simhat Torah, The raping of women, burning of babies and decapitation of people was justified. Are you one of these protestors who call from the river to the sea.He calls the Al Aqsa Deluge deluge a terrorist attack which it wasn't.
But they did not attack the military. They attacked innocent Jews going about a Jewish celebration. Then went about going into innocent Jews homes and burning babies in their cots and killing innocents in their homes. And then taking 250 captives. Not soldiers but inncoents, the elderly, young women and children.The right of Palestinians to defends themselves is enshrined in the 1949 Geneva Convention. The Palestinian attack on the military of Israel was a protected right.
Wait a minute you just said Palestine has a right to defend themselves which is enshrined in the 1949 Geneva Convention. Then you deny Isreal under the same Convention to defend itself for the very same reasons.Israel does not have the right to protect itself under the Geneva Convention and is required to protect the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank under the Geneva Convention.
This is a logical fallacy of false comparison. Kisin clearly was talking about the (average) ratio of civilian and fighter deaths. Not the extreme examples. You have to include all the wars which will have varying ratio'sand then calculate the average.Let's look at a famous city battle - Stalingrad - the city was basically razed to the ground by the end of the battle.
High estimates are 70,000, but let's go over the top and round that number to 100,000.
Number of dead on Hitler's side? 150,000 - 250,000 - not counting the ones that died in Captivity.
Number on Stalin's side? They claim 1.1 Million, but lets half that to 500,000.
Hopefully you can do math. Clearly, Hitler and Stalin cared more about avoiding civilian casualties than Israel has. Do you consider Hitler and Stalin to be good people?
So, I do wonder where that made up number for the "average" comes from - probably the same liars which made up the 2:1 ratio - Israel.
See this is another indication of your bias and narrow view in stereotyping. I am not die hard pro Israel. I jsut think like everyone else that Isreal has a right to exist and be a nation. Your falsely potraying the issue at the extremes to misrepresent things to further obscure the truth.So, about the 2:1 ratio. What does a die-hard "DO YOU CONDEMN HAMAS!" pro-Israel type think?
No it was an independent arguement given by Kisin. How could I gain a list of terrorist names when thats a military question. But we have some evidence. For example On 17 September 2024, the GHM published the names, gender and birth date of 34,344 individual Palestinians whose identities were confirmed. This reflects more than 80% of the casualties reported so far; of these, 60% were not men of fighting age.[24]Doesn't sound like he even buys that horse manure. But, I'm open minded. Go ahead and give me the list of the names of the 15,000 or so Hamas fighters Israel has killed. Just the names - I won't even ask you to prove that they were Hamas which is what is required under Geneva convention. See, I can give you a list:
Are you able to present a list? Or are your "Empirical Facts" just a fantasy you've copied and pasted from Israel.
I will have to come back to this as I am confused now with you position. You just said above that the Al Aqsa Deluge was justified. Now you criticising me for thinking it was justified when I don't. It was a terrorist attack. Are we speaking about the same thing lol.You obviously think the Al Aqsa Deluge was justified. Or did you think before posting the above comment.
This is a lie Pro Palestinians push that Isreal turned Gaza into a concentration camp. A misrepresentation of the truth as to why the security fense is there in the first place. The facts are Isreal pulled out of Gaza physically which included uprooting many Isrealis. It then helped Gaza with building infrastructure such as sewage, electricity and water.[quote cut for character length]
Ok, you're reposting fantasies from Israel again.
Israel did not stop occupying Gaza in 2005. Israel turned it into a concentration camp which they fully controlled. Look - another book Zionists won't read: The Biggest Prison on Earth - Ilan Pappe.
Of course wouldn't you if terrorist were sneaking in weapons and bombs and causing terror. It is Hamas who caused the fense around themseves to keep them in and away from Isreal. Not to keep Palestinians in but the terrorist out. What else could they do,just let Hamas come in and cause hell.Israel controlled what came into the concentration camp and what came out of the concentration camp.
Yes the Islamist world. Like at the UN agenda 7 targeting Isreal where all the Muslims nations lined up one by one claiming Isreal is committing genocide and one by one the UN allowed them to read out hateful antisemitic spew without one bit of evidence. But never scrutinising these Muslim nations themselves.Much of the world is saying that about Israel.
The United States has asked Israel to explain a “horrifying” strike on a residential building in northern Gaza that health officials say killed at least 93 people, including 25 children and the family of a Norwegian Refugee Council staffer, according to the aid organization.Israeli attack in northern Gaza kills 93; Hezbollah names new leader
At least 93 people, including 25 children, were killed in overnight Israeli strikes on a family home and a nearby residential building in Beit Lahia, in northern Gaza, officials said Tuesday.
It was the deadliest attack in northern Gaza since Israel renewed military operations there in early October. It came a day after Israeli forces withdrew from the north’s only operational hospital following a days-long raid.
Even if true it clearly breaks the principle of proportionality - not that the IDF cares a fig about such things.The United States has asked Israel to explain a “horrifying” strike on a residential building in northern Gaza that health officials say killed at least 93 people, including 25 children and the family of a Norwegian Refugee Council staffer, according to the aid organization.
In the Israeli military’s first explanation of circumstances surrounding the strike, an Israel Defense Forces official told The Washington Post it was targeting a Hamas spotter on the roof of the building and did not mean to destroy the building.
"It doesn’t matter how ridiculous a lie is. As long as it is repeated often enough, some people will believe it."From October 7th 2023 till now, all the suffering on both sides is due to Hamas. Even now, they could release the hostages and surrender, thus ending the destruction. But they refuse. It is all on Hamas.
In November, Far-right Eliyahu said that that dropping a nuclear weapon on the Gaza Strip is "an option."
Eliyahu, a member of National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir's Otzma Yehudit party, maintained that "there are no non-combatants in Gaza." He was then asked, in light of his views, whether a nuclear attack on the Gaza Strip is an option. "That's one way," he responded.
It's clear to everyone Gazans must be destroyed, Israeli lawmaker saysIsraeli lawmaker Moshe Saada from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud party said on Tuesday that recent widespread calls to "destroy" the residents of the Gaza Strip affirm that the right-wing was right.
and then there's the Hamas controlled NBC:Urgent joint statement: Northern Gaza is being erased – global leaders must act now to end Israel’s atrocities
Published: 15th October 2024
Learn more
Crisis in Gaza
Gaza Crisis Appeal
Oxfam and 37 other humanitarian organisations are raising the alarm about the catastrophic situation in Northern Gaza
Agriculture Minister Avi Dichter told Israeli Channel 12 over the weekend that the war would be “Gaza’s Nakba,” using the Arabic word for “catastrophe” that many use to describe the 1948 displacement of roughly 700,000 Palestinians who were expelled from their land in what became Israel.
“We are now rolling out the Gaza Nakba,” Dichter, a member of the right-wing Likud party, said
Here's some IDF soldier testimony.Whistleblower testimony given to the Israeli dissident group BTS suggests the use of human shields is rife.
“We had a guy who spoke Arabic in the company, and … he sent them [Palestinian detainees] to open up the houses so that if there was a bomb, they [the Palestinians] would be the ones to get blown up,” one IDF soldier whistleblower told BTS, saying that one of the human shields used was a Palestinian teenager.
It all goes back to October 7th when Hamas broke into Israel, murdering, raping, and butchering 1200 innocent Israeli men, women, and children who were enjoying their religious day, and then taking 250 more Israeli's hostage, scurrying back to their tunnels under Gaza. Oh yeah, Hamas also fired fourteen thousand rockets from Gaza into Israel from then till now."It doesn’t matter how ridiculous a lie is. As long as it is repeated often enough, some people will believe it."
Truth-by-repetition: No matter how outrageous, repeated lies become the truth
Israeli leaders have called for the complete destruction of Gaza and its people - in simple terms kill every Palestinian in Gaza. This idea that if Hamas release the hostages Israel will stop pounding Gaza into dust is nonsense:
It's clear to everyone Gazans must be destroyed, Israeli lawmaker says
Then there is the Hamas controlled Oxfam. You can't trust them can you.
Urgent joint statement: Northern Gaza is being erased – global leaders must act now to end Israel’s atrocities | Oxfam International
and then there's the Hamas controlled NBC:
Israel right-wing ministers' comments add fuel to Palestinian fears
I'm beginning the think that's the only real.solutions.Annex it all, a "two state solution" is never going to happen - the "Palestinians" are unwilling to truthfully engage in a lasting peaceful solution. The population occupying those areas have shown time and again they are unwilling to manage it as a peaceful modern state and unwilling to give 1 inch. If they are unwilling then fully annex it, re-educate them, and expel the people unwilling to give up terror and hate. Israel woke up and is doing what needs to be done.
View attachment 356607
There had been a lot of murdering by Israel before October 7It all goes back to October 7th when Hamas broke into Israel, murdering, raping, and butchering 1200 innocent Israeli men, women, and children who were enjoying their religious day, and then taking 250 more Israeli's hostage, scurrying back to their tunnels under Gaza. Oh yeah, Hamas also fired fourteen thousand rockets from Gaza into Israel from then till now.
Now you cry when Israel comes for their people and justice? Israel isn't a paper tiger that they can just stand it back up so you can knock it down again. Hamas murdered real human beings mercilessly and maliciously. It cannot be allowed to repeat or worse. Hamas must go. They have no more privilege among humans.
Ethnic cleansing of the Arab population of Palestine
“Joseph Weitz was the director of the Jewish National Land Fund...On December 19, 1940, he wrote: ‘It must be clear that there is no room for both peoples in this country...The Zionist enterprise so far...has been fine and good in its own time, and could do with ‘land buying’ — but this will not bring about the State of Israel; that must come all at once, in the manner of a Salvation (this is the secret of the Messianic idea); and there is no way besides transferring the Arabs from here to the neighboring countries, to transfer them all; except maybe for Bethlehem, Nazareth and Old Jerusalem, we must not leave a single village, not a single tribe’...There were literally hundreds of such statements made by Zionists.” Edward Said, “The Question of Palestine.
quoted from The Origin of the Palestine-Israel ConflictThe deliberate destruction of Arab villages to prevent return of Palestinians
“During May [1948] ideas about how to consolidate and give permanence to the Palestinian exile began to crystallize, and the destruction of villages was immediately perceived as a primary means of achieving this aim...[Even earlier,] On 10 April, Haganah units took Abu Shusha... The village was destroyed that night... Khulda was leveled by Jewish bulldozers on 20 April... Abu Zureiq was completely demolished... Al Mansi and An Naghnaghiya, to the southeast, were also leveled. . .By mid-1949, the majority of [the 350 depopulated Arab villages] were either completely or partly in ruins and uninhabitable.” Benny Morris, “The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949.
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