Israel-Hamas Thread II

[MartyF]

Of course you have. You just choose not to believe it.

Israel can't illegally occupy anything. This war against Hamas is a just war because Hamas is nothing but a terrorist organization set upon rhe destruction and murder of Jews.

Stop calling me a liar.

I have not seen any evidence of Hamas stationed in schools, hospitals, or ambulances. If you think otherwise, present your evidence.

I know some believe Israel can do no wrong and every evil Israel does is justified, however, the ICJ has ruled that Israel is illegally occupying the Gaza Strip and West Bank.

 

[MartyF]

Perhaps that is what is needed in order of Israel to continue to survive in the region. It's a proven fact now that rhe Palestinians refuse to leave Israel alone. I'm beginning to think that in order for Israel to survive the Palestinians need to be driven out.

Thank you for this response.

 

[Valletta]

Stop calling me a liar.

I have not seen any evidence of Hamas stationed in schools, hospitals, or ambulances. If you think otherwise, present your evidence.

I know some believe Israel can do no wrong and every evil Israel does is justified, however, the ICJ has ruled that Israel is illegally occupying the Gaza Strip and West Bank.

Every country has a right to get back hostages. The ICJ is out of line and should be the subject of an investigation.

 

[rjs330]

What did Hamas do?

You don't know? You should do some research then.

Revenge is when you attack those who have done something to you. Gangraping innocent people is not revenge. It's reveling in the in the dehumanization of another.

Yup.and that's what Israel.is doing. It's not a pretty thing. It's pretty bad really. That's why it's so idiotic to start a war. And engage in terrorism.

As I've said before, only 2 babies and one toddler died on October 7. In addition, between 30-40 children under the age of 18 died. While tragic, this is not even close to thousands of babies and toddlers Israel has purposefully killed. Israel has purposefully killed over fourteen thousand children. Since October 7, I have seen no children killed by Hamas.

Apparently you do know what Hamas did. Do you know what they have been doing since being elected?

All you keep.doing is state rhe obvious. War is bad. Hamas hasn't killed any becauae they are too busy trying to defend themselves. Too busy hiding among civilians.

Hamas has come out fighting every week of the war. You can watch it on Electric Intifada on Youtube.

Oh I'm sure they are fighting. They do t have much choice. Fight or run. Hamas isn't any different than any other Arabic terror group. They look like civilians and they hide among civilians. They use civilians as shields.

 

[MartyF]

Every country has a right to get back hostages. The ICJ is out of line and should be the subject of an investigation.

So, you support the Al Aqsa Deluge? What a refreshing opinion on this forum if true.

What would you like investigated about the ICJ?

 

[MartyF]

You don't know? You should do some research then.

I know they didn't do anything to support murdering over 14,000 children.

However, I have noticed that Israel supporters do believe in a lot of fantasy tales. I guess they no longer want to repeat them because the tall tales are becoming embarrassing.

Yup.and that's what Israel.is doing. It's not a pretty thing. It's pretty bad really. That's why it's so idiotic to start a war. And engage in terrorism.

Wow, just wow . . . You are reading your posts before posting them, right?

Apparently you do know what Hamas did. Do you know what they have been doing since being elected?

Defending themselves against an evil, unjust, illegal, and Satanic foreign power.

All you keep.doing is state rhe obvious. War is bad. Hamas hasn't killed any becauae they are too busy trying to defend themselves.

Actually, I've not said either of these things.

Hamas has definitely killed hundreds of Israeli soldiers since October 7.

Oh I'm sure they are fighting. They do t have much choice. Fight or run.

Oh, so now you agree that Hamas had no choice but to fight. Considering that Gaza is blockaded by Israel and running isn't an option, you've just agreed that the Al Aqsa Deluge was justified.

Hamas isn't any different than any other Arabic terror group. They look like civilians and they hide among civilians. They use civilians as shields.

No evidence of this.

 

[rjs330]

Wow, just wow . . . You are reading your posts before posting them, right?

Certainly, are you?

I know they didn't do anything to support murdering over 14,000 children.

That's never been my contention.

Defending themselves against an evil, unjust, illegal, and Satanic foreign power.

Well at least you can state what they believe. But I didn't ask what the terrorists believe. I asked what YOU thought they were doing.

Hamas has definitely killed hundreds of Israeli soldiers since October 7.

Probably, that's what happens in war. In fact that's one of the goals in war.

Oh, so now you agree that Hamas had no choice but to fight.

No I said they could fight or run. I actually forgot one. My bad. They could surrender today and stop all of this.

Considering that Gaza is blockaded by Israel and running isn't an option, you've just agreed that the Al Aqsa Deluge was justified.

My mistake, I forgot the part about surrendering. And I don't believe fir a second that they couldn't get out if they really wanted to. Especially before the Al.Aqsa attack. I think they asked for this fight. And they are getting what they asked for.

No evidence of this.

Of course there is.

 

[Philip_B]

Perhaps that is what is needed in order of Israel to continue to survive in the region. It's a proven fact now that rhe Palestinians refuse to leave Israel alone. I'm beginning to think that in order for Israel to survive the Palestinians need to be driven out.

Whilst this view may seem politically expedient, it lacks historical reference to the people who have live in this land for thousands of years.

 

[rjs330]

Whilst this view may seem politically expedient, it lacks historical reference to the people who have live in this land for thousands of years.

Yeah we've been over that. No sense in doing that again.

 

[MartyF]

Of course there is.

You're welcome to present it.

 

[rjs330]

You're welcome to present it.

I have no reason to believe that if I did you would acknowledge it as true.

 

[MartyF]

I have no reason to believe that if I did you would acknowledge it as true.

As did I. But I still presented it. Therefore, I must assume people who support Israel and don't present evidence do so because they don't have any and simply have an irrational hatred of Palestinians.

 

[rjs330]

As did I. But I still presented it. Therefore, I must assume people who support Israel and don't present evidence do so because they don't have any and simply have an irrational hatred of Palestinians.

You can assume whatever you like. But it's been a.proven fact for quire somw time now. I must assume that anyone e that doesn't know that is quite ignorant of what has gone on over their all these decades and may have an itrational hatred of rhe Jews.

 

[rjs330]

Hamas is stealing the aid being supplied to the Gazans. This is just one more example of how they could care less about the people there and are nothing but filthy terrorist liars. Their warehouses are full.

Hamas seizes humanitarian aid: Recordings expose Gaza exploitation | The Jerusalem Post

“At this point, we have everything... The warehouse is at full capacity," a Hamas terrorist can be heard saying in an intercepted recording.

m.jpost.com

 

[Vanellus]

Lancet article estimates the total death toll in Gaza to be about 186,000

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext

Armed conflicts have indirect health implications beyond the direct harm from violence. Even if the conflict ends immediately, there will continue to be many indirect deaths in the coming months and years from causes such as reproductive, communicable, and non-communicable diseases. The total death toll is expected to be large given the intensity of this conflict; destroyed health-care infrastructure; severe shortages of food, water, and shelter; the population's inability to flee to safe places; and the loss of funding to UNRWA, one of the very few humanitarian organisations still active in the Gaza Strip.8

In recent conflicts, such indirect deaths range from three to 15 times the number of direct deaths. Applying a conservative estimate of four indirect deaths per one direct death9 to the 37 396 deaths reported, it is not implausible to estimate that up to 186 000 or even more deaths could be attributable to the current conflict in Gaza. Using the 2022 Gaza Strip population estimate of 2 375 259, this would translate to 7·9% of the total population in the Gaza Strip. A report from Feb 7, 2024, at the time when the direct death toll was 28 000, estimated that without a ceasefire there would be between 58 260 deaths (without an epidemic or escalation) and 85 750 deaths (if both occurred) by Aug 6, 2024.10

 

[essentialsaltes]

Israeli strike kills at least 73 people in northern Gaza, medics say​

The bombing targeted the town of Beit Lahia, less than two miles from the border with Israel, late on Saturday. The entire block was “leveled to the ground,” said Mahmoud Bassal, a spokesman for Gaza’s civil defense, adding that there were a large number of people still under the rubble.

The Israeli military said in a statement that the strike was against “a Hamas terror target.”

Nearly 500 Palestinians have been killed in the two-week operation [in northern Gaza], Bassal said by phone.

Earlier Saturday, Israeli forces surrounded and fired on two hospitals in northern Gaza, according to local health authorities. They fired artillery shells at the upper floors of the Indonesian Hospital, the facility’s director, Marwan Sultan, said in a phone interview. The hospital lost power and two patients in the intensive care unit died, he said.

The World Food Program said on Oct. 12 that no food had entered northern Gaza since the beginning of the month

 

[Valletta]

Israeli strike kills at least 73 people in northern Gaza, medics say​

The bombing targeted the town of Beit Lahia, less than two miles from the border with Israel, late on Saturday. The entire block was “leveled to the ground,” said Mahmoud Bassal, a spokesman for Gaza’s civil defense, adding that there were a large number of people still under the rubble.

The Israeli military said in a statement that the strike was against “a Hamas terror target.”

Nearly 500 Palestinians have been killed in the two-week operation [in northern Gaza], Bassal said by phone.

Earlier Saturday, Israeli forces surrounded and fired on two hospitals in northern Gaza, according to local health authorities. They fired artillery shells at the upper floors of the Indonesian Hospital, the facility’s director, Marwan Sultan, said in a phone interview. The hospital lost power and two patients in the intensive care unit died, he said.

The World Food Program said on Oct. 12 that no food had entered northern Gaza since the beginning of the month

I expressed how foolhardy the Biden plan was to build a pier and deliver food to Gaza that way, so did many others, but the Biden administration did it anyways--like so many other things. It lasted twenty days.

 

[stevevw]

Hamas is stealing the aid being supplied to the Gazans. This is just one more example of how they could care less about the people there and are nothing but filthy terrorist liars. Their warehouses are full.

Hamas seizes humanitarian aid: Recordings expose Gaza exploitation | The Jerusalem Post

“At this point, we have everything... The warehouse is at full capacity," a Hamas terrorist can be heard saying in an intercepted recording.

m.jpost.com

They want their own people to die. Its like a martyrdom placed on their heads without any choice. They regard civilians as members of the resistence whether they like it or not. As weapons like booby traps to be used to stop the enermy.

What people would use their own people as weapons. I bet Sinwar ensured his friends and family were made safe. There is plenty of opportunity and resources set are setup and can be setup to ensure Gazans are safe created by Isreal. But Hamas refuse to allow their own people to have safe passage.

This is the same disregard for rights and life they see the Jews and the west as puppets obstacles to achieving their Islamists Utopia.

This is what happens when a terrorist dictator rules an entire nation from afar. Though it looks like he overstayed his time in Gaza and has paid the price. But we all know the real puppet master is Iran. Someone probably even more radical will take over by the looks of how Iran and Hezbollah are reacting.

Hopefully Isreal can complete riding Hamas in Gaza and then the rebuilding can begin.

 

[public hermit]

Hopefully Isreal can complete riding Hamas in Gaza and then the rebuilding can begin.

Why rebuild if the population is decimated? This is clearly an attempt by Israel to wipe Palestinians in Gaza off the face of the earth. Israel is just like the terrorists they claim they are destroying.

 

[stevevw]

Why rebuild if the population is decimated?

Though there are far too many deaths the population is not decimated. Of all wars the Isreal war has had the lowest causualty rate per enermy deaths by far. Which shows they are targeting their attack far more than any nation has ever done. The total number of deaths also includes around 1/3 actually being terrorists.

This is clearly an attempt by Israel to wipe Palestinians in Gaza off the face of the earth. Israel is just like the terrorists they claim they are destroying.

I guess we will have to wait and see. But I think thats a bit harsh on Isreal. If Isreal wanted to wipe Gaza off the face of the earth they could have done it years ago or just after the Hamas attack. The fact that they have taken so much time shows they are not wanting to wipe Gaza out. But to get Hamas out.

Once Hamas are out there will be peace. Well as much peace as can be repelled. In fact Gaza should become the safest place to be as no terrorists will be able to get in and its further away from the rockets from Iran and Lebanon.

Like I said its in Isreals interest that Gaza be a free independent people being right next door to Isreal. Isreal wanted the same in 2005 and even helped Gaza with infrastructure after they pulled out in the hope that Gazans would elect a democratic leader or at least one sympathic to freedoms.

But as we know Hamas moved into that void and took over. So if we want to be down on a regime coming in and taking peoples rights come down on Hamas. What people forget is that they are not only radicals against Isreal. They have also been breaching the Human Rights of their own people. Women are treated like slaves. Heaven help you if you are gay or a Christian. Let alone a Jew. The fact they have littel regard for their lives that they put them in harms way is testament to this.

I don't think Isreal wants to wipe Gaza off the face of the earth. Thats what Hamas want to do to Isreal. Its unfair to conflate Isreal with those radicals that decapitated innocents, raped women and burnt babies indiscriminately. Isreal just wants the right to live in peace without their neghbours wanting to wipe them out.

They got along with the Palestinians before these radicals came along. Many live in Isreal. They will be able to live together again once the extremists are gone. Isreal has always recognised the Palestinians right to exist and it has a history of accommodation. The problem has been some radicals don't recognise Isreals right to exist at all.

So the logical follow on forgetting all the rights and wrongs of the issue is that if these radicals who don't believe and allow Isreal to exist were out of the picture or became like the rest of us as decent empathetic humans then the chances of Isreal and Gaza living side by side becomes much much greater. Its as simple as that.

But I also think theres a lot of misinformation out there that doesn't help. By the way this does not deminish Isreals responsibility to eradicate Hamas in as a humane a way as possible. For which they have failed to do at times.