Isn't war evil?

[Jeremiah the Bullfrog]

Tell the liberated people of Iraq that war is evil...

 

[datan]

you mean the hundreds of people who just had their family members blown up this week?
or the ones who march through the streets chanting 'death to america. death to israel.'?

sure. wouldn't need much convincing.

 

[daidhaid]

i agree with you about 99%

The part i disagree with is this:

"I know Bush said Sadam was evil. I say war is evil."
War is evil depending upon the intention of the leader. I beleive bush was trying to liberate iraq and help free us from terrorism. I find those both to be legit reasons for war.

I think that in the big picture war can be viewed as evil regardless of the motivations of a politician.
God claims to have created evil and he apparantly uses it
to his purposes.
Bush also uses evil to his purposes.
As to the legitimacy of his pretenses,,,
I disagree, I don't think we are safer because of a war in Iraq.
Nor do I think the terrorists who attacked us are adversly effected by a war in Iraq.
Our loss of world standing and the furor generated in the 3rd. world do not benifit us.
Whatever Bush is up to...
I mistrust him and his reasons.
War is evil in either case.
But how would Bush know about war.
Bush, Chenny, Ashcroft, Rumsfeild, all of them avoided Combat, when better men served.
Bush gives REMFs a bad name...

 

[daidhaid]

Tell the liberated people of Iraq that war is evil...

ok
Hey!!!
You Iraqi's listen up.
War is evil.

 

[Lucent]

I was just wondering if anyone had been paying attention to what Libya and Iran have been doing since we took out Saddam's regime. As soon as they saw that the US had started going after countries that we saw as a NBC threat, they suddenly wanted to play nice. Both have thrown up the white flag and gave UN inspectors full access to their nuclear weapons programs.

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't want to wait for some of these crack-pots to get nuclear weapons and spring them on someone. I would rather fight a conventional war than a nuclear one.

 

[datan]

I was just wondering if anyone had been paying attention to what Libya and Iran have been doing since we took out Saddam's regime.

I was just wondering if anyone had been paying attention to the number of terrorist attacks in Iraq since the war.

It has increased from virtually zero to once every other week.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

I was just wondering if anyone had been paying attention to the number of terrorist attacks in Iraq since the war.

It has increased from virtually zero to once every other week.

cause the attacks were happening everywhere else around the world....

How many terrorist attacks have we heard of outside of Iraq/israel?

How many did we used to hear about outside of iraq/israel?


Coincedence that the attacks stop everywhere else in the world when we are in the "terrorists" back yard and then we slowly get attacked more and more... Yeah Iraq never supported terrorism... give me a break, terrorism is the only thing defending the old iraq!!!

(this was not a disagreement with you datan, just an added on comment)

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

ok
Hey!!!
You Iraqi's listen up.
War is evil.

Ever war ends in peace.

 

[datan]

cause the attacks were happening everywhere else around the world....

How many terrorist attacks have we heard of outside of Iraq/israel?

How many did we used to hear about outside of iraq/israel?


Coincedence that the attacks stop everywhere else in the world when we are in the "terrorists" back yard and then we slowly get attacked more and more... Yeah Iraq never supported terrorism... give me a break, terrorism is the only thing defending the old iraq!!!

(this was not a disagreement with you datan, just an added on comment)

I don't know what news you listen to, but so far since Bush's "war on terror" there have been terrorist attacks:
- Pakistan mosque just this week
- two attacks on the Pakistan president
- what abou Bali?
- several in Russia

 

[daidhaid]

I don't know what news you listen to, but so far since Bush's "war on terror" there have been terrorist attacks:
- Pakistan mosque just this week
- two attacks on the Pakistan president
- what abou Bali?
- several in Russia

Come on Datan you know what news he listens to.
Faux
Rush
Hanitty
700 Club
et.
I know a few may not consider these, mouthpieces of government propaganda, to be be actual news services.
To those folks I say just wait. John Ashcroft will be out of the hospital soon. Then you'll be wanting to think differently, or else.

 

[Lucent]

So I suppose that before Bush's "war on terror", Iraq's use of chemichal weapons against Iran and against other Iraqis (the Kurds) was not as detestible as you seem to think the war in Iraq was.

 

[datan]

So I suppose that before Bush's "war on terror", Iraq's use of chemichal weapons against Iran and against other Iraqis (the Kurds) was not as detestible as you seem to think the war in Iraq was.

oh it's detestible all right.

but the US knew fully well what was going on when they supplied those materials to Iraq and when Rumsefeld visited Saddam.

to pretend now to be so outraged over them 15 years later is hypocritical.

 

[Lucent]

15 years ago I was nine. What was I supposed to do, draw a picture to express my displeasure with the administration? If it was not possible for me to do anything then, how does that make me a hypocrite?

Besides, lets assume that we did cause all the chemical weapons use in Iraq (I need to read up more on that topic). Just because 15 years ago, we gave Saddam some 'supplies' we shouldn't have, does that mean that its wrong to go back and try to make things right?

 

[datan]

15 years ago I was nine. What was I supposed to do, draw a picture to express my displeasure with the administration? If it was not possible for me to do anything then, how does that make me a hypocrite?

i'm not referring to you specifically.
I'm referring to the US's claim of human rights violation 15 years ago to justify the war.

 

[12volt_man]

I was just wondering if anyone had been paying attention to the number of terrorist attacks in Iraq since the war.

It has increased from virtually zero to once every other week.

Hey, genius, IT'S A WAR!

The reason the enemy wasn't attacking before was that they were the only ones in power and had no need to attack.

They are now attacking because they have been removed and we are now in the process of cleaning up the mess and establishing what they fear the most: a Democratic government.

If the idea that the enemy will fight back in a war is a revelation to you, are you really the best one to lecture us on war?

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

Come on Datan you know what news he listens to.
Faux
Rush
Hanitty
700 Club
et.
I know a few may not consider these, mouthpieces of government propaganda, to be be actual news services.
To those folks I say just wait. John Ashcroft will be out of the hospital soon. Then you'll be wanting to think differently, or else.

actually i only listen to cnn, which isn't much better, but nontheless, my point still holds.

 

[Jcleesport]

yes saddam practised genocide, but he did nothing to any other country for 10 years, as you say, so how can it be justified to wade in with an army to kill and maim? On the pretence that he had WMD? Intelligence was doctored and sexed up, misrepresented and altered. The weapon inspectors had found nothing. Why was this? Why so desperate to convince the public? Because this was the only legitimate pretext for war - freeing the people does not wash.

So, why was bush so intent to maintain his 'war on terror' even though there was no terror? Well, it benefits his military supplier friends, not to mention oil friends, and a whole load of large US firms which benefited from reconstruction contracts. It also means the US can indirectly establish a presence in the middle east, adding iraq to just about every country in the world.

the war against terror is one which bush knows will be everlasting, since his policies constantly increase anti-american sentient and result in terrorist organisations enlisting far more recruits every day than the US administration ever catches. In arab populated countries, there is a much higher birth rate than in the west - and thanks to bush, they all hate the US even more.

what bush should do is start respecting arabs and stop being such a racist. the reason 9/11 happened was because of decades of US imperialism, arrogance and war. Since WW2 the US has been involved in just about every war going, usually initiating it and causing widespread grief and suffering. The cold war and vietnam was not about stopping evil dictators, instead it was only about the US wanting to stop communism in other parts of the world even though it was none of their business....

For iraq, my figure of 20,000 dead is being approached and will almost certainly be exceeded by the end of the year. i fear a civil war is ready to break out in iraq - there will certainly be no peace there for many years...

Important: the link between Saddam and al-qaeda is completely FALSE. It suits the Bush administration to associate Saddam with terrorist Arabs, be they al-qaeda or palestinian militants...but its all rubbish

And as for war playing a part in the bible, well i dont trust any millenia-old document written by desert nomads convinced they had a direct connection with a god of some sort, to tell me killing other human beings is not wrong. It is only justified as a last resort, to prevent wider evil. full stop. thanks for reading

Here's an interesting stat for you: A recent poll in Iraq showed EIGHTY FIVE PERCENT favor George Bush and the provisional government...I'll have to look around and find where I found that, but rest assured I did see it And even if I hadn't, heresay passes for truth nine times out of ten anyway.

 

[chicken ma]

No, war is not evil - It is a very human thing to fight. I think that God understands we are human and that He created us to be human. Therefore He created us to fight. But Jesus was more than human and the message in the Scriptures was clearly that He did not fight. While He knew the Romans were coming for Him, He did not run nor exhort His followers to take up arms to protect Him. And in not fighting, He not only lived, but His message lived as well.

I truly think that by Jesus' example, the only world leaders who have been true Christians were Martin Luther King and, ironically, Mahatma Ghandi. Everyone else is forgiveably human, but they are not following Jesus' example, for He never took up arms against anyone.

 

[seeker4Christ]

I don't know what news you listen to, but so far since Bush's "war on terror" there have been terrorist attacks:
- Pakistan mosque just this week
- two attacks on the Pakistan president
- what abou Bali?
- several in Russia

I too am opposed to the Iraq war. Datan, where do you get your news from? Any web sites? I might be interested in reading them myself...

 

[daidhaid]

here is a site that has reposted seymor hersh's article on the Army's latest problem regarding torture.
with Photo's
there are links to the UK story as well
the site collects news from a counterculture view but the article is from the New Yorker.

http://www.newsfrombabylon.com/article.php?sid=3966&mode=flat&order=0&thold=0