Islamphobia

[smaneck]

Non Christians aren't qualified to measure such things.

Apparently you don't see the contradictions in what you are saying. You assert on the basis of Romans that we all know the truth about Jesus Christ, then you turn around and say we can't discern who is being patient or loving?

 

[rturner76]

For those of you that like to sit on the judgement seat of Christ:

John 8:14-16
; but you do not know where I come from and where I am going. 15 You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. 16 And yet if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent Me.

Here is says Jesus judges no one but YOU somehow have the right to judge somebody, that's funny. Let's see what els Jesus says
John 12:47
47 If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
But you got the foresight and the capacity to lay judgement on somebody when Christ himself did not. You got some pretty bug shoes to fill. Let's see what els Jesus says about it:
48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.49 For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak.50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life.

Be careful when you try to play God, it says somewhere in the Bible:
Deuteronomy 6:4 NKJV
“Hear, O Israel: The lord our God, the lord is one!

Are you his go between now because I also read this:
1 Timothy 2:5 NKJV
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

Meditate on that Brothers and sisters. We must be careful not to mistake our own personal pride for our love for god. Blessed are the Meek remember? I try to keep this in mind whenever I am to be a representative of Christ. It is one thing to be bold and unapologetic. It's another thing to be arrogant and prideful

God bless

 

[SanFrank]

How can you be the judge of whether someone has the Holy Spirit? Be careful, our Lord is the only judge. I have witnessed the fruits of the Spirit in people of other religions than Christianity. Even the grandfather of evangelical Christianity--Jonathan Edwards--after working with American Indians as a missionary, said that salvation is not restricted to those who call themselves Christians. Christianity, as our Lord taught us, is a matter of the heart, and it begins with compassion.

The spirit of the Lord cannot be on anyone who does not believe in the Lord. That is obvious. What you witnessed were possibly identical/similar acts to those performed by the Lord or another christian.

1Cor 12 "I want you to know that no one who is led by God's Spirit can say "A curse on Jesus!" and no one can confess "Jesus is Lord," without being guided by the Hoy Spirit."

 

[steve_bakr]

For those of you that like to sit on the judgement seat of Christ:

John 8:14-16
; but you do not know where I come from and where I am going. 15 You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. 16 And yet if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent Me.

Here is says Jesus judges no one but YOU somehow have the right to judge somebody, that's funny. Let's see what els Jesus says
John 12:47
47 If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
But you got the foresight and the capacity to lay judgement on somebody when Christ himself did not. You got some pretty bug shoes to fill. Let's see what els Jesus says about it:
48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.49 For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment--what to say and what to speak.50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life.

Be careful when you try to play God, it says somewhere in the Bible:
Deuteronomy 6:4 NKJV
"Hear, O Israel: The lord our God, the lord is one!

Are you his go between now because I also read this:
1 Timothy 2:5 NKJV
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

Meditate on that Brothers and sisters. We must be careful not to mistake our own personal pride for our love for god. Blessed are the Meek remember? I try to keep this in mind whenever I am to be a representative of Christ. It is one thing to be bold and unapologetic. It's another thing to be arrogant and prideful

God bless

All of us should meditate on the above words.

The peace of Christ be with ALL people of good will.

 

[SanFrank]

The problem I have seen with this thinking is that I saw--in my evangelical days--that there were Christians who used the Name of Jesus as an excuse for being insensitive and even offensive. They would write it off by saying that people were offended by the Name of Jesus. In many cases, however, it was not Jesus that offended people; rather, it was the behavior of some Christians. You may have heard of the prayer: "Dear Lord Jesus, please protect me from your followers."

I'm not aware of those discussions, but what you sensed as offensive was perhaps their expression of jealousy for the things of the Lord; an expression of Love for the Lord, but due to an inability to convince through words, they began to express aggression.

 

[smaneck]

The news story you quoted is incredibly biased, never mentioning the presennce of taliban or sunni extremists, or the training of young boys to fight american soldiers.

That might answer for some of the adolescent boys but there are a lot younger children being killed. Granted that kids were not targeted by those drones, but the seven year old boy you mentioned was not being targeted either.

Islam has a history of training its children to do this sort of hordid acts.

No it doesn't. I challenge you to find me a single case of a child being trained to do 'horid acts' prior to the 20th century.

As a christian, i'm not condoning the military actions of the US, but to be clear, you keep bringing attention back to military conflicts.

The US is not at war with Pakistan. Both the US and the jihadist regard the death of children as collateral damage.

This article gives an idea of pakistani childrenn being reared with hatred: Child soldiers trained by the Taliban to kill British soldiers - mirror.co.uk

The first post had to do with moderate muslims being pushed into performing extreme acts at certain times.

I did not see a post referring to moderate Muslims.

 

[rturner76]

San Frank-

Exchanging hat for hate is bad as the Islamic extremist. Is it better to preach for war and kill the all Muslims rather than accept that there is a moderate Muslim Society. You remember Russia? There were some communists in the population but the majority of Russians in the USSR wanted freedom. Blue Jeans and McDonalds took over the USSR, not guns ad tanks. That's how you win a war like this. You do you best to get to an understanding with the real actual population of people and infiltrate with western popular culture. Books, movies, music, McDOnalds, Gucci, Beyonce, Academy Awards. The more people see the larger world, the more they will demand their freedom and you will see more uprising. Like in Egypt. THery were a more tecnology savvy country with more internet freedom. If people see the outside world, they will clamor to be a part of it. The local authorities keep them in the dark, propaganda, censorship, fear, toalianarianism, just like the USSR or Red China was. Red China didn't come up until they started letting Western business in. They have oil so they have something we need. We will deal with them. WHen their people start wanting our products (which now we export entertainment as a product instead of US Steel) borders will open, new generations will replace the older more extreme regomes an there will be more understanding between people.

As long as you fight hate with more ate, nobody will ever with . They kill 1 we kill 2 they kill 3 we kill 12. It will never end until we do business and the #1 rule of business is DON'T SHOOT YOUR CUSTOMERS!

Rant over

 

[SanFrank]

Paul didn't write the Book of Hebrews. Sure that text attempts a harmony, but if you are working from the Tanak itself, it doesn't work.

I would say Paul wrote it. But the theology between the OT and NT are tied together nicely in Hebrews, a book with a vision only the G*d of Abraham could have inspired.

Why do fail to see such an obvious connection? Take a look at it again or risk being "ignorant of the obvious" should you ever bring it up in front of another audience.

 

[SanFrank]

That might answer for some of the adolescent boys but there are a lot younger children being killed. Granted that kids were not targeted by those drones, but the seven year old boy you mentioned was not being targeted either.

That's the problem. Rather than fight a superior force, these pakistanis/taliban should have given up and considered terms of surrender and peace. But again the islam mentality prohibits such acts but rather requires of its believers to express greater agression and provocations; thus the development of suicide bombers and terrorists. Credit goes to islam.

No it doesn't. I challenge you to find me a single case of a child being trained to do 'horid acts' prior to the 20th century.

Who said anything prior to 20th century? (though I can think of something) But you agree then that children are trained to do so in the 20th century. The question is: do you approve of it?

The US is not at war with Pakistan. Both the US and the jihadist regard the death of children as collateral damage.

This article gives an idea of pakistani childrenn being reared with hatred: Child soldiers trained by the Taliban to kill British soldiers - mirror.co.uk



I did not see a post referring to moderate Muslims.

Look again. You overlooked it by convenience?

San Frank-

Exchanging hat for hate is bad as the Islamic extremist. Is it better to preach for war and kill the all Muslims rather than accept that there is a moderate Muslim Society. You remember Russia? There were some communists in the population but the majority of Russians in the USSR wanted freedom. Blue Jeans and McDonalds took over the USSR, not guns ad tanks. That's how you win a war like this. You do you best to get to an understanding with the real actual population of people and infiltrate with western popular culture. Books, movies, music, McDOnalds, Gucci, Beyonce, Academy Awards. The more people see the larger world, the more they will demand their freedom and you will see more uprising. Like in Egypt. THery were a more tecnology savvy country with more internet freedom. If people see the outside world, they will clamor to be a part of it. The local authorities keep them in the dark, propaganda, censorship, fear, toalianarianism, just like the USSR or Red China was. Red China didn't come up until they started letting Western business in. They have oil so they have something we need. We will deal with them. WHen their people start wanting our products (which now we export entertainment as a product instead of US Steel) borders will open, new generations will replace the older more extreme regomes an there will be more understanding between people.

As long as you fight hate with more ate, nobody will ever with . They kill 1 we kill 2 they kill 3 we kill 12. It will never end until we do business and the #1 rule of business is DON'T SHOOT YOUR CUSTOMERS!

Rant over

I don't see hatred being exchanged for hatred. Where? I see myself pointing out the horrors of islam and the principles it instills in its believers that then act out in the real world. I pray for all muslims to know the Lord and repent.

The example of the USSR is not applicable since the situation was political-economic while islam is religious. The islamic response using your example would have been the USSR taking McDonalds and Blue Jeans and calling it Russian inventions, negating the contribution made by the US. Thus there would be no fall of communism and no Reagan peace deals as we know them. Islam steals every good idea and calls it there own.

 

[steve_bakr]

That's the problem. Rather than fight a superior force, these pakistanis/taliban should have given up and considered terms of surrender and peace. But again the islam mentality prohibits such acts but rather requires of its believers to express greater agression and provocations; thus the development of suicide bombers and terrorists. Credit goes to islam.
Who said anything prior to 20th century? (though I can think of something) But you agree then that children are trained to do so in the 20th century. The question is: do you approve of it?
Look again. You overlooked it by convenience?

I don't see hatred being exchanged for hatred. Where? I see myself pointing out the horrors of islam and the principles it instills in its believers that then act out in the real world. I pray for all muslims to know the Lord and repent.

The example of the USSR is not applicable since the situation was political-economic while islam is religious. The islamic response using your example would have been the USSR taking McDonalds and Blue Jeans and calling it Russian inventions, negating the contribution made by the US. Thus there would be no fall of communism and no Reagan peace deals as we know them. Islam steals every good idea and calls it there own.

I'm afraid this post may demonstrate the kind of Islamophobia that this thread seeks to address, which stems partly from a misunderstanding of the teachings of Islam.

 

[smaneck]

I would say Paul wrote it.

On the basis of what? There is nothing in the text which indicates Paul wrote it it is not written in his style and biblical scholarship doesn't Paul with that work.

Why do fail to see such an obvious connection? Take a look at it again or risk being "ignorant of the obvious" should you ever bring it up in front of another audience.

Hebrews is profound, I'll grant you that, but it by no means resolves all the differences between the Old and New Testaments.

 

[smaneck]

1Cor 12 "I want you to know that no one who is led by God's Spirit can say "A curse on Jesus!" and no one can confess "Jesus is Lord," without being guided by the Hoy Spirit."

No one here has cursed Jesus.

 

[smaneck]

That's the problem. Rather than fight a superior force, these pakistanis/taliban should have given up and considered terms of surrender and peace.

So your problem with Islam is not that its violent but that it won't simply surrender to the greater violence of the West?

But again the islam mentality prohibits such acts but rather requires of its believers to express greater agression and provocations; thus the development of suicide bombers and terrorists. Credit goes to islam.

It has nothing to do with Islam. Suicide bombing began to be used because it worked against superior force as seen by the withdrawal of US forces from Lebanon after the first suicide bombing in 1983.

Who said anything prior to 20th century?

You said Islam had a history of this. For a religion which is nearly 1500 years old one ought to be able to come up with instances that go back more than a few decades. But as long as we are talking about history [and that was the term you used] ever hear of the Children's Crusade?

But you agree then that children are trained to do so in the 20th century.

Yes by both Muslim and Christian militia forces, especially in Africa. It is a tragedy of our modern age, not the fault of any particular religion.

The question is: do you approve of it?

Of course not!

 

[chelsea89]

Obviously my moving to an Islamic state such as one in the middle east or Africa would prove nothing. Even Asia doesnt make things better, I was born in America, and therefore am culturally American. I vote and enjoys cheeseburgers and fries, barbecues and football as much as the next American.I even enjoy music which some say a Hadith forbids. But I believe in Allah swt and try my best to live for Him. I fall short but as the Quran says He is Oftforgiving and most Merciful. If you knew the history of the mJorily Muslim countries it would be clearer why they seem more barbaric when in actuality they've come a long way in 1400 years from what they once were. Most of the good in those areas is accredited to the Ottoman Empire, what we have now is the result of UN and US empossed sanctions and years of political feuds.

 

[SanFrank]

So your problem with Islam is not that its violent but that it won't simply surrender to the greater violence of the West?

It has nothing to do with Islam. Suicide bombing began to be used because it worked against superior force as seen by the withdrawal of US forces from Lebanon after the first suicide bombing in 1983.

You said Islam had a history of this. For a religion which is nearly 1500 years old one ought to be able to come up with instances that go back more than a few decades. But as long as we are talking about history [and that was the term you used] ever hear of the Children's Crusade?

Yes by both Muslim and Christian militia forces, especially in Africa. It is a tragedy of our modern age, not the fault of any particular religion.

Of course not!

No one here has cursed Jesus.

On the basis of what? There is nothing in the text which indicates Paul wrote it it is not written in his style and biblical scholarship doesn't Paul with that work.

Hebrews is profound, I'll grant you that, but it by no means resolves all the differences between the Old and New Testaments.

I find your responses at this point incongruent. You leave the topic or change the topic rather than face the horrors of islam with sincerity.

 

[SanFrank]

I'm afraid this post may demonstrate the kind of Islamophobia that this thread seeks to address, which stems partly from a misunderstanding of the teachings of Islam.

I am not afraid of islam nor muslims. I find muslims cannot discuss the horrors of their religion for any length of time but try turning the topic on christianity. As for me, I pray for all muslims and chrislamics to turn away from a false god. You agreed that theological differences were too great between qur'an and bible.

 

[ViaCrucis]

This thread is one of those moments where, after the initial headache has passed by, I consider the possibility of retiring from the human race. Perhaps maybe be a turnip or a clod of sandstone.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[SanFrank]

Obviously my moving to an Islamic state such as one in the middle east or Africa would prove nothing. Even Asia doesnt make things better, I was born in America, and therefore am culturally American. I vote and enjoys cheeseburgers and fries, barbecues and football as much as the next American.I even enjoy music which some say a Hadith forbids. But I believe in Allah swt and try my best to live for Him. I fall short but as the Quran says He is Oftforgiving and most Merciful. If you knew the history of the mJorily Muslim countries it would be clearer why they seem more barbaric when in actuality they've come a long way in 1400 years from what they once were. Most of the good in those areas is accredited to the Ottoman Empire, what we have now is the result of UN and US empossed sanctions and years of political feuds.

You are one of many who have fallen for islam which the Lord calls a deception. Return to Christ on bended knees and repent of having bowed to a false god.

2 Thessalonians: "The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satanhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/2-thessalonians/2.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-17 displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,http://www.biblestudytools.com/2-thessalonians/2.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-1810 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing.http://www.biblestudytools.com/2-thessalonians/2.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-19 They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.http://www.biblestudytools.com/2-thessalonians/2.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-2011 For this reason God sends themhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/2-thessalonians/2.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-21 a powerful delusionhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/2-thessalonians/2.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-22 so that they will believe the liehttp://www.biblestudytools.com/2-thessalonians/2.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-23 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness."http://www.biblestudytools.com/2-thessalonians/2.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-24

 

[SanFrank]

This thread is one of those moments where, after the initial headache has passed by, I consider the possibility of retiring from the human race. Perhaps maybe be a turnip or a clod of sandstone.

-CryptoLutheran

Better yet, turn to salvation.

 

[Zaac]

The problem I have seen with this thinking is that I saw--in my evangelical days--that there were Christians who used the Name of Jesus as an excuse for being insensitive and even offensive. They would write it off by saying that people were offended by the Name of Jesus. In many cases, however, it was not Jesus that offended people; rather, it was the behavior of some Christians.

The problem I have seen with this other line of thinking is that it is based in lies and is more concerned with being sensitive and nonoffensive than it is with being truthful.

When a person starts receiving anonymous PMs from folks giving out blessings while calling them evil because they unabashedly preach God's word, then trust that the offense is the word of God.

You may have heard of the prayer: "Dear Lord Jesus, please protect me from your followers."

No. I haven't heard of too many folks who reject Jesus as Lord and Savior praying to Him to protect them from His Bride.