Islamophobia.

[ecco]

In Iraq it is mostly Sunnis butchering Shi'ites. Yes, there is certainly othering involved. And it is as much political as religious. Shi'ites make up the majority of Iraq but Sunni Arabs, who made up only 25% of the population ran the country under Saddam Hussein. When they were allowed to vote, a Shi'ite government naturally came into power. Sunnis are trying to

What is your point?

ecco said: ↑ Protestants and Catholics got over killing each other in just 500 years.

You realize that Protestantism has only been around for 500 years?

Yes I do. That's why I said "Protestants and Catholics got over killing each other in just 500 years." Muslims have been killing each other for 1400 years and are still going at it.

Shi'ites and Sunnis sometimes went centuries without killing one another.

That makes it even worse that they found ages old reasons to start killing each other again. Tell me again, how is Islam the religion of peace, when so many Muslims continue to want to kill each other.

 

[ecco]

Not always. But the chances are greater if the 'fundamentalists' in question have a political agenda. Originally Christian fundamentalists were largely apolitical. That changed in the seventies.

Your knowledge of history is truly abysmal.

Have you never heard of the inquisitions which go back to the 8th Century?

 

[ecco]

ecco said: ↑
Are you suggesting that within the Arabic community, interpretation is not applied to the Quran?​

Not at all. But translation is automatically an interpretation.

Translation is indeed an added layer. Nevertheless, it remains that all scripture is interpreted by "scholars" and in the minds of the readers. As I have said: Something for everyone. Pick and choose. Justify anything.

 

[ecco]

Wow ecco,

Wrong for wrong? That's our hubris is it not ? We fight in manmade translation correct ? Lets break that down for a minute. Two Christian man made religions that ignore the singularity of this verse Matthew 16:18. The religion is inside of us already, placed there by no man Jeremiah 31:33. That verse alone in Matthew 16:18 took away mankinds power of organized religion (hush hush that little secret that can not be revealed or we loose our money/congregation) . Thus, neither church fights in spirit, for spirit is one to all humanity, right? A human Islam has the law written on their hearts just like a Christian does but human pride will not move over that religion has nothing to do with what is written on all hearts. Its just choice not to obey. Or as you so eloquently put it (Place religion here ) and lets go kill.

What is a gate of hell ecco?

I have no idea what your ramble is intended to communicate.

 

[FanthatSpark]

For me in todays tech age a phobia is created. While the masses are just trying to work and come home tired we do what is easiest... Turn on the "Lie box" A.K.A. TV. What masses do not know is crucial for psychological manipulation. Example: April 6, 2009. just in time for Easter, President Obama spoke at a press conference in Turkey, a Muslim country, and said of America, "We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation." This tidbit is not on TV as it is designed not to be. As a result of that speech we now have an ally & air base in Turkey.

When a masses person (through no fault of their own for it is understood no time to computer search news for life takes precedence thus their news plays on the TV as they are relaxing or taking care of kids etc... The American Way.) has no idea they are being psychologically manipulated . When one tries to point this out to them it affronts them (majority speaking) . Some consider themselves to smart and some just trust too much that the manipulators think like them and they would never do such a thing for they would not. So, for me, I get the view in that lens of looking at a situation. All that to say this...

When one does not have facts like... This phobia was created by people of this nation and it is biting back now the masses label this as conspiracy theory for reasons to explain our ignorance away and reset the stage for continued complacency by the masses. The masses are not aware by design of our way of living weather its hard working or hard playing or both. While all this is going on for the masses, over a sea far far away (Plug for Star Wars ) we have our people (A.K.A. representatives) creating this phobia with no TV-mass/mainstream media. Known as omit/black out, non coverage so the above posted 1 example of thousands is done with no knowledge by the masses. No knowledge is the biggest lie of all, correct? Thus, when one tries to point out it is the media that is "part" of the manipulation not through what they show us but through non coverage like above, one of thousands of examples, this just goes over the heads of most and even that is labeled as conspiracy theory so the stage can be reset and complacents can rain in hard playing or hardworking or both and further psychological warfare can be set . This is what we got right now because massmedia "will" show outcome but "not creation" of a phobia. Thus, no understanding for the masses over here that over there we created this monster that is biting back now. All a masses individual knows has been psychologically put in there minds in silence for years (massmedia omittence) then all of a sudden major pinpoint global and domestic activities covered on all channels for days until next event to reaffirm a phobia with fingers pointed to every-any thing but us (Us is used very loosely that in the term itself "us" means our representatives in our names which includes us not in support but by proxy) as the blame for creating this monster. When a media machine operates like this its manipulation of mind set also known as religion of eye for an eye in pure ignorance by the masses we created, weponized , gave it a name , gave it a mission all not covered in mass media (A.K.A. silence, omittence, blackout, non-coverage) . That is labeled as un patriotic & conspiracy theory to reset the stage for ??? Continued phobia through complacency of easiness so we can get back to hardworking, hardplaying or both, right? And/or focus on the phobia itself as the enemy that allows the creators of said phobia to rub there hands together with smiles on face and say well played, correct?

It is well played for now we have a monster biting back and an unwary mass of people screaming protect us and protect us we will do. For me, I try to ,, schizophrenia-ize , , viewing lenses in benefit of doubt to are we the bad guys weather its domestic or foreign issues . This is done in broad view format to pinpoint view format and who benefits in things like taking media freedoms away (Investigative reporting) to there is no "people" and/or constitution in foreign policy which breaks down to there are no watchdog agencies in anything foreign that further breaks down to there is no law over that sea far far away for the biggest bully around which is us. The facts are just overwhelming when one researches International Law. It pretty much breaks down that the law is for all nations except the U.S. and that is so sad as my country is actually breaking international law being in Syria and the masses have no idea Russia has the high ground in following the law. Here are some current events... These are not for the mass that has been brain washed so I would suggest not reading these for they will affront you.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/12/04/putin-must-seek-justice-for-peshkov/
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/12/03/isis-oil/
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/12/03/erdogan-blackmails-nato-allies/

 

[ecco]

I am sure if we could take decisive action to stop the violence between the two we would. But it is tribal and goes across country lines. It's not like our troops could do anything but physically separate the groups and that is not something a military does long term. It would be akin to military troops trying to keep the Bloods and Crypts apart. You are making it seem like we don't care about Muslims. But all of the troops that have died since 2000 have been in Muslim lands and only a few Christians there.


I went on the Islam forum in Reddit and sincerely asked as a Christian why there was violence between people of the same faith and they couldn't give me ant definitive answers. Some thought it was purely geopolitical as they didn't want Iranian influence in Arab lands. Others said its because Shiites are considered heretics because their Imams can interpret the Quaran in new ways and Sunnis are more fundamentalist in no new interpretations are possible. Others said it was hatred passed down from their parents

This would be comparatively easy.

This is the reality.

 

[ecco]

to smaneck:

You tell the biggest bald-faced lies that I have ever heard. They killed 3000 of us on 9/11 and have been killing us ever since, about once a week. That is not a few dozen killed, nor a "handful" of Muslims.

21st Century
< 5,000 Deaths of Americans on American soil by Muslims based on religious beliefs.
> 150,000 Deaths of Americans on American soil by Americans with guns.

Let's continue to make it easy for the real killers to own guns.

Yes, that last part was sarcasm.

 

[ecco]

(my emphasis)

For me in todays tech age a phobia is created. While the masses are just trying to work and come home tired we do what is easiest... Turn on the "Lie box" A.K.A. TV. What masses do not know is crucial for psychological manipulation. Example: April 6, 2009. just in time for Easter, President Obama spoke at a press conference in Turkey, a Muslim country, and said of America, "We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation."

You really need to show a source for that. Perhaps you are confusing your comments with:

Treaty of Tripoli ratified by the United States Senate in 1797
Article 11 reads (my emphasis):

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

​

(emphasis mine)

This tidbit is not on TV as it is designed not to be. As a result of that speech we now have an ally & air base in Turkey.

Facts:

The decision to build the Incirlik Air Base was made during the Second Cairo Conference in December 1943, but construction works began after the end of the Second World War. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers began construction of the Incirlik Air Base in the spring of 1951. TheU.S. Air Force initially planned to use the base as an emergency staging and recovery site for medium and heavy bombers. The Turkish General Staff and the U.S. Air Force signed a joint-use agreement for the new Air Base in December 1954. On 21 February 1955, the Air Base was officially named Adana Air Base, with the 7216th Air Base Squadron as the host unit. This Air Base was renamed the "Incirlik Air Base" on 28 February 1958.​

(emphasis mine)

When a masses person (through no fault of their own for it is understood no time to computer search news for life takes precedence thus their news plays on the TV as they are relaxing or taking care of kids et So, for me, I get the view in that lens of looking at a situation. When one does not have facts like... <snip ramble>

And yet, you were unaware of the Treaty of Tripoli and the History of the Incirlik Air Base. And, unless you can show differently, you probably misquoted Obama in your referenced press conference.

A very interesting lens indeed.

 

[FanthatSpark]

No U.S. plains on said base until after said speech. Some fundamental things are missing from 1954 to today. Built by who matters not correct? Whose planes uses the base is the tell all, right? The article can be found in trusting thread. We did not have use of said base until ?

Now as far as Christian nation look outside for the "reality" (not letter of law) of that and walk 2 miles and count the different churches . Who dominates this country in mass numbers, sir? If you are American there is a chance a family member is Christian or a good friend.

Letter of law never claimed truth to reality right? A state under freedom can have no religious ties yet same state relies on those religious ties to be voted in on the domestic side of the sea while on the international side that untruth can be stated (letter of law) in masses over here correct? What is being ignored is State vs religion where state is overstepping to implant fear of the phobia by playing hopscotch with both versions of, letter of law vs reality of religion, in this country (Mass speaking). Mass speaking the statement is lie. Freedom speaking it is truth . This forum speaking depends upon lens one looks through. Truth or Law? Who supports State? The masses do. What does average joe derive out of the Obama statement on this side of the sea? What does average joe see on the way to the store? Christian churches everywhere, right? Look at all of them here in this forum. For me , I am trying to displace unnecessary fear of religion and refocus to state that they do what they do in our name. My lens will vary depending on which schizo I am writing under
. Your view under law/treaty (which we break constantly for there is no one bigger than us) is valid too ecco. I see it, and it has merit, under letter. The view posted before your reply is? Truth of this present reality on this side of the sea vs reality on that side of the sea.. I have no delusions an opinion can be changed in this format alone. Like your treaty , after this post I will be off to gather info from 1954 to today in if that treaty stands why were we not already stationed there? Something fundamental is missing in the article I posted in trusting or that treaty was ratified in an amendment or something right? I can be flawed brother it is human.

 

[FanthatSpark]

(my emphasis)

You really need to show a source for that. Perhaps you are confusing your comments with:

Treaty of Tripoli ratified by the United States Senate in 1797
Article 11 reads (my emphasis):

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

​

(emphasis mine)

Facts:

The decision to build the Incirlik Air Base was made during the Second Cairo Conference in December 1943, but construction works began after the end of the Second World War. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers began construction of the Incirlik Air Base in the spring of 1951. TheU.S. Air Force initially planned to use the base as an emergency staging and recovery site for medium and heavy bombers. The Turkish General Staff and the U.S. Air Force signed a joint-use agreement for the new Air Base in December 1954. On 21 February 1955, the Air Base was officially named Adana Air Base, with the 7216th Air Base Squadron as the host unit. This Air Base was renamed the "Incirlik Air Base" on 28 February 1958.​

(emphasis mine)


And yet, you were unaware of the Treaty of Tripoli and the History of the Incirlik Air Base. And, unless you can show differently, you probably misquoted Obama in your referenced press conference.
A very interesting lens indeed.

http://english.aawsat.com/2015/07/a...cirlik-airbase-for-us-led-anti-isis-coalition
https://eu.ixquick.com/do/search
type in ... Use of Incirlik airbase.

 

[ecco]

No U.S. plains on said base until after said speech.

Just a few excerpts from:

http://www.incirlik.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=5344

• The Lebanon crisis exploded in the summer of 1958, prompting President Eisenhower to order the deployment of Tactical Air Command's Composite Strike Force Bravo from the United States to Incirlik.
• The strike force consisted of F-100s, B-57s, RF-101s, RB-66s, F-86Ds and WB-66s.
• Normal operations at Incirlik resumed after the United States and Turkey signed a Defense and Economic Cooperation Agreement March 29, 1980.
• Aug. 19, 2003, the first rotation of deployed KC-135 Stratotankers and Airmen arrived at Incirlik to support Operations Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom.

Notice especially the last bullet point: 2003 to support Bush's invasion.


ETA: That's not to suggest that Incirlik has not been in use since then.​

 

[ecco]

http://english.aawsat.com/2015/07/a...cirlik-airbase-for-us-led-anti-isis-coalition
https://eu.ixquick.com/do/search
type in ... Use of Incirlik airbase.

See above #331

Also, your supposed Obama comment is from 2009; your article is:
Written by : Thair Abbas
on : Thursday, 30 Jul, 2015

Also, you failed to address:
And, unless you can show differently, you probably misquoted Obama in your referenced press conference.

 

[FanthatSpark]

Ok.

 

[NolanJ]

http://www.redstate.com/2015/12/04/wasnt-sanbernardinoshooting-perp-tashfeen-malik-vetted-visa/

She lied on her visa application and the fiancé visa process is more thorough than people are claiming on
this board.

 

[ecco]

Ok.

That does not address:

And, unless you can show differently, you probably misquoted Obama in your referenced press conference.

So stop with the silly smilies and address the honesty of the comments you made.

 

[FanthatSpark]

I think you think I come here with emotion . What one says here is "what" to me?
This forum is not the be all, friend. (emphasis ecco). It has been addressed in opinion alone which has no article and correctness to it and never claimed to be. This forum on the American side of the ocean is for personal gratification or afrontages where religion is...Added. Profit is the reason over that sea far away from our recliner thrones and computers. We add the religion...Period. How one views this... April 6, 2009. just in time for Easter, President Obama spoke at a press conference in Turkey, a Muslim country, and said of America, "We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation."

...is for you to find it on TV. I got tired of looking for it to no avail, thus the comment of not on TV.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" ~Isaiah 5:20

God help us.

Wow, ironic verse for someone who has "God bless Kurdistan" underneath it! The Kurds were complicit with the Turks in massacring Christian Armenians, Assyrians, and Greeks in the Genocide - but "God bless" them??? But, at the same time, Islamaphobia is good? But except for the Islamic Kurds whom God should bless??? lol unbelievable how deep the ignorance runs.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

When you know someone who suffered the loss of a family member due to a terrorist Muslim cutting her head off at work, you tend to realize that terrorist muslims can be anywhere because anyone can be a muslim. Just as they can be of any other faith.

How about when you know someone who suffered the loss of a family member due to a terrorist Christian on a shooting rampage at an abortion clinic? Would that then cause you to realize that terrorist Christians can be anywhere because anyone can be a Christian just as they can be of any other faith?

 

[brinny]

brinny said: ↑
"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" ~Isaiah 5:20

God help us.

Wow, ironic verse for someone who has "God bless Kurdistan" underneath it! The Kurds were complicit with the Turks in massacring Christian Armenians, Assyrians, and Greeks in the Genocide - but "God bless" them??? But, at the same time, Islamaphobia is good? But except for the Islamic Kurds whom God should bless??? lol unbelievable how deep the ignorance runs.

yes, i agree. Ignorance is not a good thing, and one should do their research when/if/before attempting to use the word "Islamophobic/Islamophobia" definitively. Otherwise you are quite correct, as the lack of said research will become apparent.

By the way, did you check out/watch any of the videos mentioned in my signature?

And yes, i am, and I will continue praying for the courageous Kurdish women, and all fighting ISIS, and all of the Kurdish and all of Kurdistan.

Thank you for reading my signature.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

yes, i agree. Ignorance is not a good thing, and one should do their research when/if/before attempting to use the word "Islamophobic/Islamophobia" definitively. Otherwise you are quite correct, as the lack of said research will become apparent.

That's why I made sure to use the word "Islamaphobia" definitively and correctly. Thanks for confirming that I am quite correct.

By the way, did you check out/watch any of the videos mentioned in my signature?

Why would I? There's nothing valuable I can get from propaganda.

And yes, i am, and I will continue praying for the courageous Kurdish women, and all fighting ISIS, and all of the Kurdish and all of Kurdistan.

They are temporary allies, the second they can start killing Christians they will. It's their history. A lot of ignorant Americans don't know that at all.