Islamophobia.

[ecco]

I think the problem I am having is that I hold to the belief of sola scriptura, based on 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

I feel that scripture explains itself, and what is or isn't present matters. I know you have a verse in the Koran the states the same... I just don't remember where it is to post it. But point being... Im not looking for your explanation of the Koran, I need to see these topics in the Koran itself.

This way I can plainly see that it is in fact part of Islam, and not just your interpretation or belief system..

Nonsense, interpretation is just as important what is actually written.

• Catholics and Protestants killed each other because of interpretation.
• Americans justified owning slaves because of interpretation.
• Tens of thousands of "witches" were burned at the stake because of interpretation.

That's the beauty of scripture - something for everyone. Seek and ye shall find.

 

[ecco]

But problem is that the "plain tongue" is Arabic which you don't know. And if you are reading any translation whether of the Bible or the Qur'an you are getting someone else's interpretation.

Are you suggesting that within the Arabic community, interpretation is not applied to the Quran?

 

[smaneck]

Is that why Sunnis and Shiites butchered each other in Iraq after we removed the lid on the kettle?

In Iraq it is mostly Sunnis butchering Shi'ites. Yes, there is certainly othering involved. And it is as much political as religious. Shi'ites make up the majority of Iraq but Sunni Arabs, who made up only 25% of the population ran the country under Saddam Hussein. When they were allowed to vote, a Shi'ite government naturally came into power. Sunnis are trying to

Or is that something that started 1400 years ago? Fourteen hundred years of deciding not to understand each other.

About as much, as the violence in Northern Ireland between Catholics and Protestants had to do with someone who lived 2000 years ago.

Protestants and Catholics got over killing each other in just 500 years.

You realize that Protestantism has only been around for 500 years? The violence ended just 17 short years ago, a bit short a time to say they are 'over it.' Shi'ites and Sunnis sometimes went centuries without killing one another.

 

[smaneck]

Fundamentalist (insert religion of choice here) Beliefs = death.

Not always. But the chances are greater if the 'fundamentalists' in question have a political agenda. Originally Christian fundamentalists were largely apolitical. That changed in the seventies.

 

[smaneck]

delete

 

[smaneck]

Are you suggesting that within the Arabic community, interpretation is not applied to the Quran?

Not at all. But translation is automatically an interpretation.

 

[FanthatSpark]

Wow ecco,

Wrong for wrong? That's our hubris is it not ? We fight in manmade translation correct ? Lets break that down for a minute. Two Christian man made religions that ignore the singularity of this verse Matthew 16:18. The religion is inside of us already, placed there by no man Jeremiah 31:33. That verse alone in Matthew 16:18 took away mankinds power of organized religion (hush hush that little secret that can not be revealed or we loose our money/congregation) . Thus, neither church fights in spirit, for spirit is one to all humanity, right? A human Islam has the law written on their hearts just like a Christian does but human pride will not move over that religion has nothing to do with what is written on all hearts. Its just choice not to obey. Or as you so eloquently put it (Place religion here ) and lets go kill.

What is a gate of hell ecco?

 

[NolanJ]

For those wanting to impose strict entrance criteria for Syrian refugees, or a temporary moratorium on their admittance, on the basis of safety concerns, considering the evidence, are not "Islamophobes."

Most of the politicians I've heard speak on this issue are making these demands on the basis of legitimate safety concerns. Those making these request because or racism of antipathy toward Islam are wrong.

Yep we are definitely not Islamaphobes. The shooter's wife was "vetted" and given a bill of good health by DHS and we see how that turned out. This is not like countries of Western Europe that have tons of documentation on each of their citiziens. Sometimes records are sparse. They could tell us anything to get in here and we have very little info to check if that info is true unless obviously their name and face were known to the media in extremist circles.

 

[NotreDame]

Yep we are definitely not Islamaphobes. The shooter's wife was "vetted" and given a bill of good health by DHS and we see how that turned out. This is not like countries of Western Europe that have tons of documentation on each of their citiziens. Sometimes records are sparse. They could tell us anything to get in here and we have very little info to check if that info is true unless obviously their name and face were known to the media in extremist circles.

Your statement is similar in some respects but also identical in some aspects to the remarks of FBI Director Comey.

But this makes me wonder why you hate Muslims and Islam so much? [emoji6]

 

[smaneck]

The shooter's wife was "vetted" and given a bill of good health by DHS and we see how that turned out.

She wasn't a refugee, she came on a spousal visa which is an entirely different process.

 

[Smidlee]

Nonsense, interpretation is just as important what is actually written.

• Catholics and Protestants killed each other because of interpretation.

• Catholics and protestants wars were more politics that anything else. Hello? That why we have the freedom of religion to keep politics dictating their interpretation on the masses.

  [*]Americans justified owning slaves because of interpretation.

  Slavery is simply cheap labor. America still support slavery just in a different country.

  [*]Tens of thousands of "witches" were burned at the stake because of interpretation.

Ten of thousands ? Who? Now they were those who preached against baby baptism were burned to the stake but that because they spoke out against the political church.
By the way there are still political churches in America which even Hillary noticed how much power they have.

 

[interpreter]

Gee, but the Nazis were so much better at this than we were? Why not just imitate them?
I don't know what you mean by "Islamic citizens" but if you mean American citizens who happen to be Muslims, no they have not killed thousands of us. There are a handful who have killed dozens. And they haven't killed nearly as many as have been killed in mass shootings in the last decade by those who are not Muslims.

You tell the biggest bald-faced lies that I have ever heard. They killed 3000 of us on 9/11 and have been killing us ever since, about once a week. That is not a few dozen killed, nor a "handful" of Muslims.

 

[interpreter]

Is that why Sunnis and Shiites butchered each other in Iraq after we removed the lid on the kettle?

Or is that something that started 1400 years ago? Fourteen hundred years of deciding not to understand each other.

Protestants and Catholics got over killing each other in just 500 years.




As compared to roadside bombs.

Sunnis and Shiites have been killing each other for nearly 1400 years, and no one has been able to stop it, and Muslims hate it everytime we try to intervene. We should let Muslims kill each all they want to, to their heart's content, and only intervene when they start killing Christians (as Ted Cruz also says).

 

[NolanJ]

She wasn't a refugee, she came on a spousal visa which is an entirely different process.

The point is she had to pass a background check through DHS and it didn't work.

 

[Armoured]

You tell the biggest bald-faced lies that I have ever heard. They killed 3000 of us on 9/11 and have been killing us ever since, about once a week. That is not a few dozen killed, nor a "handful" of Muslims.

Where have they been killing "us" about once a week?

 

[NolanJ]

Sunnis and Shiites have been killing each other for nearly 1400 years, and no one has been able to stop it, and Muslims hate it everytime we try to intervene. We should let Muslims kill each all they want to, to their heart's content, and only intervene when they start killing Christians (as Ted Cruz also says).

I am sure if we could take decisive action to stop the violence between the two we would. But it is tribal and goes across country lines. It's not like our troops could do anything but physically separate the groups and that is not something a military does long term. It would be akin to military troops trying to keep the Bloods and Crypts apart. You are making it seem like we don't care about Muslims. But all of the troops that have died since 2000 have been in Muslim lands and only a few Christians there.


I went on the Islam forum in Reddit and sincerely asked as a Christian why there was violence between people of the same faith and they couldn't give me ant definitive answers. Some thought it was purely geopolitical as they didn't want Iranian influence in Arab lands. Others said its because Shiites are considered heretics because their Imams can interpret the Quaran in new ways and Sunnis are more fundamentalist in no new interpretations are possible. Others said it was hatred passed down from their parents

 

[smaneck]

• Catholics and protestants wars were more politics that anything else. Hello?

• There is a political dimension to all wars of religion, that doesn't mean they weren't religious as well.
  

  [*]
  
  [*]That why we have the freedom of religion to keep politics dictating their interpretation on the masses.

• 
  Sentence makes no sense.

• 
  

  Slavery is simply cheap labor.

  
  I'll grant you that those employers who fail to pay their workers a living wage are committing an injustice, but I wouldn't call Mcdonald's or Walmart slave holders.

Ten of thousands ? who?

Between 1500-1800 an estimated 100,000 people, mostly women, were executed as witches.

Now they were those who preached against baby baptism were burned to the stake but that because they spoke out against the political church.

Often they were drowned instead. And it wasn't just for preaching it. Being rebaptized was a capital offense in the Holy Roman Empire.

By the way there are still political churches in America which even Hillary noticed how much power they have.

The Amish were about the only apolitical church.

 

[smaneck]

You tell the biggest bald-faced lies that I have ever heard. They killed 3000 of us on 9/11 and have been killing us ever since, about once a week. That is not a few dozen killed, nor a "handful" of Muslims.

The Muslims behind 9-11 were not citizens. I made it clear that I was talking about Muslims who happen to be US citizens. But I know these kinds of fine distinctions go right past you.

 

[smaneck]

The point is she had to pass a background check through DHS and it didn't work.

It is not nearly as extensive a background check as when you are coming as a refugee. It takes about 3-6 months to get a spousal visa whereas the vetting process for a refugee is 1 1/2 to 2 years.

 

[ecco]

Catholics and protestants wars were more politics that anything else. Hello? That why we have the freedom of religion to keep politics dictating their interpretation on the masses.

What we have today in America does not change history. The basis for those wars was the advent of a schism in religious beliefs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_wars_of_religion

Lutheranism, from its inception at Wittenberg in 1519, found a ready reception in Germany, as well as in formerly Hussite Bohemia. The preaching of Martin Luther and his many followers raised tensions across Europe.

In Northern Germany, Luther adopted the stratagem of gaining the support of the local princes in his struggle to take over and re-establish the church along Lutheran lines. The Elector of Saxony, the Landgrave of Hesse and other North German princes not only protected Luther from retaliation from the edict of outlawry issued by the Holy Roman Emperor, Charles V, but also used state power to enforce the establishment of Lutheran worship in their lands. Church property was seized and Catholic worship was forbidden in most lands which adopted the Lutheran Reformation. ​

Slavery is simply cheap labor. America still support slavery just in a different country.

That does not negate my point that some christians justify slavery on scriptural grounds. If anything, it supports it.

ecco:

Tens of thousands of "witches" were burned at the stake because of interpretation.​

Ten of thousands ? Who?

That you have never heard of the European witch hunts shows a severe lack of knowledge of history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_trials_in_the_early_modern_period

The period of witch trials in Early Modern Europe[1] were a widespread moral panic suggesting that malevolent Satanic witches were operating as an organized threat to Christendom during the 15th to 18th centuries...
Over the entire duration of the phenomenon of some three centuries, an estimated total of between 40,000 and 60,000 people were executed.​

Now they were those who preached against baby baptism were burned to the stake but that because they spoke out against the political church.

When you use to terms "preached" and "baptism" in your response, you clearly show that the motivation is primarily religious not political.