Islamophobia.

[FanthatSpark]

That article says we did a lousy job containing ISIS not that we funded them.

As for the oil, we aren't the ones buying that oil.

OK. you win. http://dailycaller.com/2015/12/02/u...raqis-believe-the-us-must-be-supporting-isis/

For me, things start to clarify when I say "Is it possible we are the bad guys"? For me, it fits in what Putin is implying but not directly saying it outright . This is part of the political game that he does not say it outright so people can figure it out on their own. Once it is figured it causes loss of allies for it was found out by the people . France for example. When they figure it out with nudges from Putin the attacks are our fault (Funding). Thus , France jumps to Putins ship as an ally. Here are the countries already Putins ally, Iran, China, N.Korea , Africa etc.. However, just China and N.Korea is enough and a soon to be nuclearized Iran. Watch as the Mainstream Media are forced to recognize it too and lift the blackout (Omittence).

 

[ecco]

If there is no set separation between then and now the the entire Koran is still in play.

If the NT overrides the OT, why did American slave owners justify it with the bible. Not everyone agrees with your interpretations. Again, that is the beauty of scripture: pick and choose those parts you like.

 

[LostMarbels]

If the NT overrides the OT, why did American slave owners justify it with the bible. Not everyone agrees with your interpretations. Again, that is the beauty of scripture: pick and choose those parts you like.

The OP is not about slaves. You can scroll threw and catch up if you need to.

Sorry, I don't chase these guys....

 

[smaneck]

Because if there is no direct message from your god stating that those type of events are to cease they are still in effect.

Angels beheading people? Since there is no record of this happening after the Battle of Badr why would God need to say this? As for jihad in general. I already told you what "my" God has to say about this. But let me repeat it since you clearly weren't paying attention:

"The unbelievers and the faithless have set their minds on four things: first, the shedding of blood; second, the burning of books; third, the shunning of the followers of other religions; fourth, the extermination of other communities and groups. Now however, through the strengthening grace and potency of the Word of God these four barriers have been demolished, these clear injunctions have been obliterated from the Tablet and brutal dispositions have been transmuted into spiritual attributes. Exalted is His purpose; glorified is His power; magnified is His dominion!"
http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/TB/tb-8.html

I'd say that is pretty direct.

Where does Mohamed, or Allah state non-believers; Jews, Christian, and others are to be left in peace? If there is no set separation between then and now the the entire Koran is still in play.

Did I ever say there was no separation between then and now? I don't think so! But here is where the Qur'an say let People of the Book [Jews and Christians] in peace:

Dispute not with the People of the Book save in the fairer manner, except for those of them that do wrong; and say, 'We believe in what has been sent down to us, and what has been sent down to you; our God and your God is One, and to Him we have surrendered.'
[Al-Qur’an 29:46]

But I think I already cited that passage and once again, you ignored it.

The Qur'an even has passages which affirm their salvation. This one is repeated twice in the Qur'an so He must have really meant it!

002.062
"Indeed, those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians and the Sabians, any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."


005.069

"Indeed, those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Sabians and the Christians, any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."

005.082-83
nearest among them in love to the believers you will find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, you will see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses."

007.159

"Of the people of Moses there is a section who guide and do justice in the light of truth."


003:113-114

"Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand: They rehearse the verses of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten in good deeds: They are in the ranks of the righteous"

The Qur'an also says that any disputes should between Muslims and them should be left to the Day of Judgement:


022.067-69

"To every People have We appointed rites and ceremonies which they must follow: let them not then dispute with thee on the matter, but do invite (them) to thy Lord: for you are assuredly on the right way. If they do wrangle with you, say, "God knows best what it is you are doing. God will judge between you on the Day of Judgment concerning the matters in which you differ."

005.005

This day are (all) good things made lawful for you. The food of those who have received the Bible is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them. And so are the virtuous women of the believers and the virtuous women of those who received the Bible before you (lawful for you) when ye give them their marriage portions and live with them in honour, not in fornication, nor taking them as secret concubines. Who denies the faith, his work is vain and he will be among the losers in the Hereafter.
010.041

"If they charge you with falsehood, say: "My work to me, and yours to you! ye are free from responsibility for what I do, and I for what you do!""

 

[Truthfrees]

MOD HAT ON

1. Please keep the discussion on topic.

2. Please do not mock, goad, or flame each other.

3. Please do not mock Christianity or anyone else's religion.

If you post was edited or deleted it was for these reasons.

MOD HAT OFF

 

[FanthatSpark]

So there "is" timeline to the Koran? With those quoted verses above which speak of the second stage of Spirit which negates eye for eye teachings or belief for belief that translates to radicals death to the infidel it comes down to translation correct? Like us (Christians) we have built entire religions on translations that differ.

005.082-83
nearest among them in love to the believers you will find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, you will see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses."

A witness is a martyr. It could be translated by a radicle as such, correct? We have modernized the term witness and pulled the term away from death, to a person that is proxy to an event. He/Jesus being the lamb of love did say "Forgive them for they know not what they do".
Thus, as reward for forgiveness complete of action above by mankind that did not understand agape and thus killed it for claims of God in Him that He and God are the same (let there be light:: I am the Light of the world) , even that was left to translation where most men could not hear it in that time for the Comforter/Holy Spirit "now" is in play so one "can" understand on levels deeper than instant thought. "Stand Still" the scripture says. Why? So we can be "retuned" . For example, let there be light. I am the light of the world. When one stands still (Can be translated as sit down alone with scripture and let God teach us) terms such as Light expand (yet shorten) in the realm of thought .

All that to say a radical is bombarded with the world that is physical . Their reality is war torn and with this plain of existence a radical has not the time to "Stand Still" to receive the second stage of Spirit/Light/Agape/Love for none is shown to them as their families are bombed right in front of their eyes (one example of injustice). Thus, these are stuck in barbarism, for barbarism is their reality by the physical world around them. Our environment plays a major roll to this choice, Luke 9:54-56. Even the disciple was prone to barbarism as the scripture points out they know not what Spirit they are . It takes peace to promote peace . Peace of environment firstly, so a man/woman has time to learn of things of the Spirit and or "Stand Still". When peace of environment is not present then physical translation of the Bible/Koran is all one hears. Barbarism is our nature but Spirit and time to know Spirit is blessing.

Variables = Confusion and confusion is His will. That is todays test. In OT it was obedience and in apparent time line of the Koran posted in descriptors earlier & above . Today it is NT John 5:39-40. To separate confusion of self and know beyond a shadow of doubt there is no goodness in us until we implement verse 40 for Christians and above post for Islamists (which translates to peace for me on the Koran side of the fence).

That is why so many translations , which causes confusion that can bend the Word from physical to Spiritual and visa versa that to fit a persons righteousness weather it be Bible or Koran. None are righteous no not one, yet pride makes one say "I am better than them" and lost is, we are all the same no matter the religion. In an environment of peace one learns righteousness from, or too, a person is God given for all things good/righteous/just (All these terms meld into one) are from God/Allah/Light/Agape/Love (these too, meld together for those that hear) and those that hear know we can not exist like that always without Gods, Allah's...Light/agape/Love/Jesus/Second stage of Spirit all these too meld together for those that hear.
Its not the system (religion) its variables to ones reality. We do what is taught or shown through the eyes, correct? Take me for example, I have no Koran knowledge for I was raised in Bible . smaneck seems to be trying to bridge the two books Koran & Bible (Marbles too)for common ground? As smaneck & marbles posts Koran this is my first introduction to it and there is a whole lot of assumptions going through this mind like time line from post above to previous posts of verbiage of descriptors verses common sense that time line applies for knowledge increases through sufferings of past for lessons sake, correct? To not learn is a hardening of heart/spirit to ignore bible NT and above Koran teaching, right? This produces barbarism from both sides, correct? Example:
From the eyes of a Syrian, Iraq or Iranians eye, they are being bombed and or sanctioned by a "Christian" nation. From an Americans eye we are being terrorized by Islam. No spirit in that but a physical translation, correct? The three fingers pointed to self (Nations,Christian/Islamic) as we point to the other for blame is lost on both sides of the physical translation of this realm of existence . Barbarism is easy as one said it is our nature no matter the religion/system one is taught. As one is blessed in peace and recognizes peace is a God given blessing so one has the quality time between selves and God/Allah no matter they be Islam or Christian to hear things of Spirit and know we are lost without God/Allah for on our own we will maim and destroy things good. That is the Christian cross we bear that we destroyed love yet love still seeks us, forgave us in our ignorance and bestowed the gift of the comforter That is belief of love no matter the term we put to it for it is divine to the Christian and Islamist.

Here's the hard part we want to bury our heads too. These nations being bombed by us all they know (percentage talk) is Christians are bombing them. I beg to differ. Politicians and corporate interests are bombing them in our name.

 

[interpreter]

Excuse me, but I heard all my life how wrong and unconstitutional this was and nearly everyone involved in this injustice has apologized for it. We have even paid reparations to those who we imprisoned in concentration camps. It is a sad episode in our history which we would rather forget and certainly never repeat.

It is not a sad episode in our history. It was the prudent thing to do. We won that war, so it behooves us to try and repeat everything we did. And unlike the Japanese citizens, Islamic citizens really are killing us, and thousands of us, so it not just a percieived threat, but very real.

 

[smaneck]

So there "is" timeline to the Koran?

Sure there is, but it might be hard for a non-Muslim to discern it because the Qur'an is arranged in almost the exact opposite order in which it was revealed. That is because the long suras or chapters are in the front and they short ones in the back. Yet Muhammad's earliest revelations which he received during the Meccan period were quite short, whereas those revealed during the Medina period which contain laws necessary for the running of a community tend to be much longer. However suras are usually identified as Meccan or Medinaian.

With those quoted verses above which speak of the second stage of Spirit which negates eye for eye teachings or belief for belief that translates to radicals death to the infidel it comes down to translation correct? Like us (Christians) we have built entire religions on translations that differ.

I'm not sure what your first sentence means, but your second sentence is true. However, a larger number of Muslims can read the Qur'an in the original language than is the case with Christianity.

A witness is a martyr. It could be translated by a radicle as such, correct?

The word in Arabic is Shahid and it means both witness and martyr. That is correct.

Thus, as reward for forgiveness complete of action above by mankind that did not understand agape and thus killed it for claims of God in Him that He and God are the same (let there be light:: I am the Light of the world)

You are going far beyond the text.

It takes peace to promote peace .

That much is true. Maslow's hierarchy of needs plays a role here.

That is why so many translations , which causes confusion that can bend the Word from physical to Spiritual and visa versa that to fit a persons righteousness weather it be Bible or Koran.

Muslims are much more alert to the problems with using translations than Christians are. So much so they do not consider a translation of the Qur'an to truly be the Qur'an. The Quran is in Arabic, and only in Arabic. Consequently, although most Muslims are not Arabs they will make an attempt to learn at least some Arabic. There are children as young as 10 who have memorized it by heart, but only in the Arabic.

To not learn is a hardening of heart/spirit to ignore bible NT and above Koran teaching, right? This produces barbarism from both sides, correct?

True. In order to kill someone without conscience, most people have to 'other' them in such a way as to depict them as somehow not like one's self. And that is only possible if decide not to understand them.

Example:
From the eyes of a Syrian, Iraq or Iranians eye, they are being bombed and or sanctioned by a "Christian" nation.

Fortunately we haven't bombed any Iranians, however Muslims do perceive areal bombing as an act of terrorism. And a cowardly one at that, since the perpetrator remains far above the carnage they cause.

]These nations being bombed by us all they know (percentage talk) is Christians are bombing them. I beg to differ. Politicians and corporate interests are bombing them in our name.

Of course. There was an Ismaeli group that used to carry out daredevil attacks in which a political leader would be killed. Their reasoning was that soldiers were innocent victims of war just like the women and children. Soldiers don't start wars, politicians do. So why not go after them? In theory very logical. In practice a bit more problematic. In any case a story arose around the fedayeen or young men would carry out their attacks during which they rarely survived. The story goes they would get these guys high on hashish, take them to their mountain fortress, set the in a garden replete with you guessed it, 72 virgins. They would then be told if they in paradise to which they would return if the died carrying out their mission. This story was almost certainly not true because no one high on hashish could accomplish what they did. But because it was believed they called these people the Hashishin from whence we get the world "Assassin."
And that part of the story is true.

 

[Crusader05]

Well, I guess I'm an islamophobe. I fear radical jihadis who want to commit mass murder for their religion. I fear a religion that preaches violence and hate. I fear a religion that seeks domination over the globe. I fear a religion that denies equality to women and minorities. I fear a religion that teaches the punishment for apostasy (i.e. leaving the faith) is death. I fear a religion that was literally spread by the sword for hundreds of years. I fear a religion that demands dominance over the culture and relegates non-believers to second class status.

This hard truth that the PC crowd doesn't want to address, they'd rather give us platitudes about the 'religion of peace' and call is 'haters'. Yes, I hate islamic extremists! Any reasonable person should!

 

[HondaMan]

Boy sues school for profiling because teacher saw what looked like a bomb.

People afraid to report suspicious behavior because of fear of profiling and political correctness, 14 dead.

Stop playing the discrimination card. If you're clean, you got nothing to worry about.

 

[smaneck]

It is not a sad episode in our history. It was the prudent thing to do. We won that war, so it behooves us to try and repeat everything we did. And unlike the Japanese citizens, Islamic citizens really are killing us, and thousands of us, so it not just a percieived threat, but very real.

Gee, but the Nazis were so much better at this than we were? Why not just imitate them?
I don't know what you mean by "Islamic citizens" but if you mean American citizens who happen to be Muslims, no they have not killed thousands of us. There are a handful who have killed dozens. And they haven't killed nearly as many as have been killed in mass shootings in the last decade by those who are not Muslims.

 

[smaneck]

Well, I guess I'm an islamophobe. I fear radical jihadis who want to commit mass murder for their religion. I fear a religion that preaches violence and hate.

And therein lies your problem. You imagine that Islam=radical jihadis. That makes about as much sense as Robert Dear=Christianity.

 

[smaneck]

Boy sues school for profiling because teacher saw what looked like a bomb.

No, he did not sue because a teacher saw what looked like a bomb. The teacher's actions were perfectly reasonable. What was unreasonable was the boys arrest even after the police determined that what he was carrying was a harmless clock.

Stop playing the discrimination card. If you're clean, you got nothing to worry about.

The boy was clean and they knew he was clean and after they knew he was clean they arrested him anyhow. That is what constitutes discrimination, not that they checked out a suspicious situation.
If you were driving a black SUV in San Bernadino last night you might have been stopped to insure you weren't the suspects. That is well and good, but if after having determined you were not the suspect they arrested you anyhow because you were driving an SUV that seemed suspicious then is something is wrong with them. That is essentially what happened in this boy's case.

 

[LostMarbels]

I think the problem I am having is that I hold to the belief of sola scriptura, based on 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

I feel that scripture explains itself, and what is or isn't present matters. I know you have a verse in the Koran the states the same... I just don't remember where it is to post it. But point being... Im not looking for your explanation of the Koran, I need to see these topics in the Koran itself. This way I can plainly see that it is in fact part of Islam, and not just your interpretation or belief system..

 

[HondaMan]

the police determined that what he was carrying was a harmless clock.

What was the police's excuse for doing so? I wasn't aware of that.

 

[smaneck]

I think the problem I am having is that I hold to the belief of sola scriptura, based on 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

You realize that that passage was written in the context of there being some Christians who wanted to throw out the Tanakh in its entirety?

It had nothing to do with whether or not one needs to understand context in order to understand scripture. Even Luther would not have argued that! When Luther insisted on sola scriptura, he meant scripture without reference to canon law. He did not mean that we ignore the understandings of the early Church Fathers or the great theologians. Still less did he think it meant reading scripture apart from its context. He was a university professor, after all!

I feel that scripture explains itself, and what is or isn't present matters. I know you have a verse in the Koran the states the same... I just don't remember where it is to post it.

I'm guessing the verse you have in mind is "We have revealed the Qur'an in a plain tongue." But problem is that the "plain tongue" is Arabic which you don't know. And if you are reading any translation whether of the Bible or the Qur'an you are getting someone else's interpretation.

 

[smaneck]

What was the police's excuse for doing so? I wasn't aware of that.

That the boy brought something suspicious looking to school. And after he was released they suspended him for three days. It was the principle and the police who acted inappropriately not the teacher. She did what she was supposed to do.

 

[FanthatSpark]

Thanks for the lessons smaneck . Marbles and smaneck lets concentrate on where the Bible went singular and this is the crux of translation in how a Christian discerns scripture. First lets repost John 5:39-40 . Now lets go to where the bible went singular so all mankind that knock shall find if one comes in sincerity. Matthew 16:18.

When one looks to context of scripture a key ingredient is missing... Self/Soul. Thus , John 5:39 applied to??? Knowledge, not self/soul.
2 Timothy 3:16 is the very definition of the two edge sword in how one approaches that verse to remold self with God or for knowledge's sake alone. Knowledge does not save, correct? Thus verse John 5:40 which is the same as Matthew 16:18. I say this from experience for I too was context driven and in context self/soul is left behind in appliance to self/soul firstly that what an individual and God translate is for us alone for we all differ in said individuality, too? Remold self, correct? This means every life experience is different so translation must differ to fit what an individual understands. Great pride in knowledge acquisition manifests when one seeks the scripture alone yet we start there and it is written this is good. I did for three decades. However, my mind was caught in judgment/comparison to others in context of knowledge which in the end was pride and it drove me mad in the impossibleness of knowledge alone. As children do, I took sin as my first lover for my mind was snapped until God decided "enough tantrum child, let me send you a helper". This helper changed my perception that what I read is meant for self/soul and it is the entire design of the Bible that we and God have a relationship not we and people, that is "Gate to hell" when we listen to people firstly (As I did for three decades). He started me on 1-Corinthians 13:4-7. I read that over and over for a week and it was not getting through until a soft meek voice inside my head says "change charity to love, agape, God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, YOU, others". As I cry right now writing this in the sheer beauty of it, when it hit for the first time I was a baby bawling in how did I miss that and in my head that soft whisper said "you were alone, now come to me and live life in those verses & lets sequester for a time with scripture and remold the soul/self in love for now you have been given truth of my nature and what Spirit you are too and can receive truth". That was the second visiting of the Holy-Spirit and on my knees in delightful and disciplinary tears are shed and praised over . The first was at 12 but I faltered in first love equaled people (gates of hell).Me being 12 mom and dad were my God and I trusted these more than God and this furthered to preacher and church friends that these came first.

That is partial testimony and it is said firstly to maybe open an eye of some member here who reads this and looks upon their lives and asks self how do "I" perceive ? In judgment/knowledge or forgiveness/Spirit? Who taught me judgment? God or Person? <-- That includes preacher too. He is just a man as the flock is too.

Secondly , the NT went individual in Matthew and John posted above . If one has experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit one does not seek a human for understanding of things Spiritual Proverbs 3:5. Yet, I did for three decades, and if one delves deep enough in scripture one finds there is no Church, religion but only Proverbs 3:5 & Matthew 22:37 hooked too Matthew 16:18 ignored by me for three decades for people, church congregation came first like: What would they think if I? There was no process true that equals there is no other but God and sequester is a must. Most churches label this as one can not go introspective after the baptism = crazy yet it is written to do so. Good is already written on the hearts of all human beings (took 3 decades by myself in not seeing this TRUTH. Ye know "not" what Spirit we all are of, Luke 9:55, hook that to 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 and apply these translations of charity... Love, agape, Jesus, God, you, others, Holy Spirit and be awed as I was and still am that these are the same and if I hurt you I hurt self even in thought no matter if one is Islam or Christian for these do not cover the big picture of you are me and I you until one sequesters and seeks in Spirit. Us and God, no person. We just ignore it in our deeds like religion weather its Islam or Christianity all these are man made for distraction of what is already written on the hearts of all. One has found there is no context in the bible or Koran in ~Spiritual~ reading of verse for verses read are for us and God to pray over so one can remold our flawed state of being that is not of 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 by our selves. Thus , none is righteous/good no not one, by their selves. This also goes to
2 Timothy in instruction of righteousness and Romans 3:10. Depending on translation that can drive a person bonkers. It did me for three decades .

This is given in the deepness not by FTS but inspired by Him who knows good for I surly do not. Because of said individuality not all came to the Word as I did in knowledge gathering weather Bible or Koran or both . Some have no scripture knowledge , some can not read yet their joy and love for others manifest for said knowledge would hinder their joy. The knowledge is for nothing if one does not apply John 5:40 correct (this is one sided for there is no Koran knowledge in me so it is up to the people with said knowledge to meld the two together in...Goodness to fellow man)? There is no one talking unity here in this thread because religion stands in the way of good will (big picture view). No one is seeing big picture that peaceful Islam and Christians need to put religion aside and join in this country and refocus "righteous resolution" to the people that promote this war of religion when we all believe in is ??? goodness, peaceful resolution. Thus the challenge is out there to come together as two nations and concentrate on State. Ya know , State and religion? State is involved today in our religions lets flip the script on them and join in a united front?

It brings joy to this heart of smaeck and marbles trying to find common ground. Lets refocus the lens that religion is the stumbling block to good will that is already written on the heart of the human "not the religion itself" that focuses on knowledge, area of religion, race, human choice, childs upbringing? Look at all the types of religion in this forum alone? Does it not scream confusion ? Joy of being is the goal, but a judgmental mind has no joy for as one judges another or self, self stands crucified. There is but one judge, why do we do it? Madness is our nature.

 

[ecco]

True. In order to kill someone without conscience, most people have to 'other' them in such a way as to depict them as somehow not like one's self. And that is only possible if decide not to understand them.

Is that why Sunnis and Shiites butchered each other in Iraq after we removed the lid on the kettle?

Or is that something that started 1400 years ago? Fourteen hundred years of deciding not to understand each other.

Protestants and Catholics got over killing each other in just 500 years.

Muslims do perceive areal bombing as an act of terrorism. And a cowardly one at that, since the perpetrator remains far above the carnage they cause.

As compared to roadside bombs.

 

[ecco]

And therein lies your problem. You imagine that Islam=radical jihadis. That makes about as much sense as Robert Dear=Christianity.

Fundamentalist (insert religion of choice here) Beliefs = death.