Islamophobia.

[smaneck]

Some people believe the OT is just as valid as the NT. These people acted in accordance with their understanding of the OT and felt they were justified in owning slaves.

Slavery is as much in the NT as it is in the OT.

If you truly believe what you posted, then you must admit that the OT is not to be trusted. Yet, if I'm not mistaken, you believe the Genesis story. How do you know that god won't send another of his selves to earth to say "We wrote Genesis to appeal to the knowledge of those people long ago, none it it was "really true"?

He wouldn't put it that way. But there is a Baha'i scholar who lived more than a hundred years ago who corresponded with the head of the Ahmadiyya sect of Islam:

The third caliph of the Ahmadiyyas had asked Mirza Abu'l-Fadl whether the story of Noah living 950 years as stated in the Qur'an is to be taken literally or if it has another meaning. Mirza Abu'l-Fadl gives a rather complicated response. He points out that the story of Noah in the Qur'an is based on the Biblical story. Mirza Abu'l-Fadl then turns his attention to examining the nature of
the Bible. He points out that while parts of the Bible are clearly records of God's revelation (for instance the parts which begin "Thus speaketh the Lord") there are other parts which are historical accounts and other material which make no claims to being revealed. He points out that when we consider the historicity of the biblical accounts we must also compare them with other histories. In this context, he points out that the ancient histories of places like China or India have no account of the flood. He even goes so far as to point out that Egyptian history does not substantiate the story of Moses orthe drowning of Pharoah's army in the Red Sea.

However, that somewhat begs the questions because these stories are found in the Qur'an all of which is regarded as revelation. And here is where Mirza Abu'l-Fadl lays down a principle which I think is essential to understanding the proper relationship between religion and science:

"The Prophet Muhammad said, "We, the concourse of Prophets, were commanded to address the people according to the capacity of their minds," and, likewise, "Speak to the people of that with which they are familiar. Do you wish God and His Messenger to be accused of lying?" Thus was it related by the learned judge Muhammad ibn Ahmad Rushd al-Andalusí [Averroes] "It is well known that the Prophets and Manifestations of the Cause of God were sent to guide the nations, to
refine their characters, and to bring the people nearer to their Source and Ultimate Goal. They were not sent as historians,
astronomers, philosophers, or natural scientists the Prophets indulged the people in regard to their historical notions, folk stories, and scientific principles and spoke to them according to these. They conversed with them as was appropriate to their audience and hid realities behind the curtain of allusion." (p. 39)"It has, then, been established that the historian cannot depend for historical knowledge upon the outward meanings of Qur'anic verses and that Noah and his like are not mentioned in the rest of the ancient histories." (p. 40)

 

[morningstar2651]

The new illness . A friend of mine was stating in another thread one can loose their heads in more than one way.

That's a good way to put it - we're more likely to lose our heads to fear than to beheading.

The whole purpose of terrorism is to intimidate and coerce people into a certain course of action, and ISIS WANTS us to be angry and fearful of all Muslims - it supports their narrative that we're the enemy. Everyone on here that posts about how Islam or Muhammad is evil or violent is practically writing ISIS's propaganda for them.

Every time we post some vile hateful filth about how all Muslims are evil violent people, we're helping ISIS recruit new soldiers, so maybe we should knock it off and act like adults.

You must not fear. Fear is the mind killer. Fear triggers a flight or fight response in you.

There are so many dumb things in this world that are more likely to kill you than a terrorist.

• 15 private US Citizens were killed in terrorist attacks in 2010.
• You're more likely to die by falling out of your chair (218 Americans died this way in 2010).
• You're more likely to die by being tangled in your bed sheets (684 Americans died this way in 2010).
• You're more likely to die by falling out of your bed (718 Americans died this way in 2010).
• You're more likely to trip over your own two feet and die (785 Americans died this way in 2010).
• You're more likely to accidentally die of alcohol poisoning (2,014 Americans accidentally drank themselves to death in 2010).

 

[smaneck]

The whole purpose of terrorism is to intimidate and coerce people into a certain course of action, and ISIS WANTS us to be angry and fearful of all Muslims - it supports their narrative that we're the enemy. Everyone on here that posts about how Islam or Muhammad is evil or violent is practically writing ISIS's propaganda for them.

Especially if they can get them to pass anti-shariah laws, prevent mosques from being built, etc. As I mentioned earlier, the only Qur'anic justification for jihad is persecution so if ISIS can get people to persecute Muslims then their cause is justified.

 

[LostMarbels]

If you truly believe what you posted, then you must admit that the OT is not to be trusted. If the OT is not to be trusted, why should anyone believe the NT can be trusted?

Some people believe the OT is just as valid as the NT. These people acted in accordance with their understanding of the OT and felt they were justified in owning slaves. That's the beauty (or horror) of scripture, everyone takes what they want from it and everyone justifies their actions by believing they are following god's way.

If you truly believe what you posted, then you must admit that the OT is not to be trusted. Yet, if I'm not mistaken, you believe the Genesis story. How do you know that god won't send another of his selves to earth to say "We wrote Genesis to appeal to the knowledge of those people long ago, none it it was "really true"?

No... not at all. I'm not getting into that in this conversation. This comment is like quoting Hovind about TOE. Just enough truth to be dangerous. This current conversation is about "Islamaphobia" and I do not find it irrational to be wary of Islam.

 

[LostMarbels]

That's a good way to put it - we're more likely to lose our heads to fear than to beheading.

The whole purpose of terrorism is to intimidate and coerce people into a certain course of action, and ISIS WANTS us to be angry and fearful of all Muslims - it supports their narrative that we're the enemy. Everyone on here that posts about how Islam or Muhammad is evil or violent is practically writing ISIS's propaganda for them.

Every time we post some vile hateful filth about how all Muslims are evil violent people, we're helping ISIS recruit new soldiers, so maybe we should knock it off and act like adults.

You must not fear. Fear is the mind killer. Fear triggers a flight or fight response in you.

There are so many dumb things in this world that are more likely to kill you than a terrorist.

• 15 private US Citizens were killed in terrorist attacks in 2010.
• You're more likely to die by falling out of your chair (218 Americans died this way in 2010).
• You're more likely to die by being tangled in your bed sheets (684 Americans died this way in 2010).
• You're more likely to die by falling out of your bed (718 Americans died this way in 2010).
• You're more likely to trip over your own two feet and die (785 Americans died this way in 2010).
• You're more likely to accidentally die of alcohol poisoning (2,014 Americans accidentally drank themselves to death in 2010).

There are so many things you do not understand. I am not afraid of Islam. I honestly do not believe in religious extremists. I believe it is an extremest religion that some do not see in that point of view. It is in the Koran that no religion will stand before Islam, that all others will be eliminated. This isn't made up, just some refuse to see it.

 

[morningstar2651]

There are so many things you do not understand. I am not afraid of Islam. I honestly do not believe in religious extremists. I believe it is an extremest religion that some do not see in that point of view. It is in the Koran that no religion will stand before Islam, that all others will be eliminated. This isn't made up, just some refuse to see it.

Says more or less the same thing in the Bible and you don't see me calling you evil, violent, or a terrorist, do you?

 

[morningstar2651]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=958039584231501

 

[LostMarbels]

And?.....

 

[morningstar2651]

And?.....

And maybe we shouldn't seriously consider a presidential candidate who would drag us into a crusade.

Wars are a lot easier to start than they are to end. Trump would start wars, but he would end none of them.

 

[LostMarbels]

Says more or less the same thing in the Bible and you don't see me calling you evil, violent, or a terrorist, do you?

Lets look at this:

(Deu 2:32-37) Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to fight at Jahaz. And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain: Only the cattle we took for a prey unto ourselves, and the spoil of the cities which we took. From Aroer, which is by the brink of the river of Arnon, and from the city that is by the river, even unto Gilead, there was not one city too strong for us: the LORD our God delivered all unto us: Only unto the land of the children of Ammon thou camest not, nor unto any place of the river Jabbok, nor unto the cities in the mountains, nor unto whatsoever the LORD our God forbad us.

Ok... so here we have one of the more brutal accounts of the OT. Wholesale slaughter of every living being.

First point: when you read this you know you are reading a recountal of the events. This event is in past tense because of the wording. "took" for example. So the reader can deduce this is a historical account, not a directive.

Second point, Direct orders from God:

1Sa 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

Num 21:3 And the LORD hearkened to the voice of Israel, and delivered up the Canaanites; and they utterly destroyed them and their cities: and he called the name of the place Hormah.

When the God of the bible commanded such things note that the place, and even the name of people were stated. You know for a fact God commanded for this event specifically to happen in that time frame, because he called it by name.

Third point: God ended the commandment to kill your enemies, and even to seek retribution from those who wrong you.

Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
Mat 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Mat 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The reason he says, "you have heard" is because that was the past teachings, and now he changed the rules.
In this we see what was once allowed before the appearance of Christ is no longer permissible as a "Christian", after Christ.

This is what I am looking for in the Koran. Where are the verses that make the old ways void?

Final point:

O you who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with the righteous.
And whenever a surah is revealed, there are among the hypocrites those who say, "Which of you has this increased faith?" As for those who believed, it has increased them in faith, while they are rejoicing.
But as for those in whose hearts is disease, it has [only] increased them in evil [in addition] to their evil. And they will have died while they are disbelievers.
At-Tawbah 9:123-125

This is in present tense. Fight, not fought. Find, not found. And there is nothing in this verse, or it's paragraph tying it to a past event. If someone reads this verse they are reading it in present tense as a directive.

 

[LostMarbels]

And maybe we shouldn't seriously consider a presidential candidate who would drag us into a crusade.

Wars are a lot easier to start than they are to end. Trump would start wars, but he would end none of them.

You really think were over there for that? Read up on the petrodollar, and how any nation that threatens it gets a visit from Uncle Sam to spread 'democracy' and 'order' to the region.

 

[interpreter]

No, if he goes against the Constitution he should be impeached. And discriminating against Muslims is unconstitutional.

LOL. We discriminated against the Japanese in WW II and no one said it was wrong or against the constitution. We didn't let any more in, and we locked up all those already here. We are fighting a war just as bad now, so we should do the same thing now, only with the Muslims.

 

[KarateCowboy]

People are terrified of terrorists. Sounds like they won that battle. Good Job for being a bunch of cowards america.

Not so worried about terrorism in specific as Jihad in general.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Not so worried about terrorism in specific as Jihad in general.

Not worried about that either. consider all they do is just shock and awe hits. Which doesn't help their cause as we will react and blow them up again and what they do doesn't really do enough infrastructure damage to take us down. we've grown paranoid enough since 9/11 that such an attack of that scale is highly improbaable. regardless of you or anybody else's delusion that we are letting them walk all over us.

 

[FanthatSpark]

Nice content LostMarbles & smaneck . As one reads the content from your posts its a real attempt of understanding . Understanding negates phobia .

 

[FanthatSpark]

What are you talking about? We never supported ISIS.



What I see is you are making absolutely no sense.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/12/01/putins-revenge-the-fight-for-the-border/
Also see this link in Trusting thread. This thread has time line as things posted from past now manifest in issues such as "Who funded ISIS"? Hope this helps .

 

[LostMarbels]

Thanks... gotta say tho, I am really enjoying talking with Smaneck. You just have to respect someone like that who knows what they believe and are willing to fight their cause. I honestly want to stumble across the verse that states exactly what I'm looking for. I'm not seeing it, but if she continues she might just teach me something I do not know.

 

[smaneck]

LOL. We discriminated against the Japanese in WW II and no one said it was wrong or against the constitution.

Excuse me, but I heard all my life how wrong and unconstitutional this was and nearly everyone involved in this injustice has apologized for it. We have even paid reparations to those who we imprisoned in concentration camps. It is a sad episode in our history which we would rather forget and certainly never repeat.

 

[smaneck]

I honestly want to stumble across the verse that states exactly what I'm looking for. I'm not seeing it, but if he continues he might just teach me something I do not know.

She.

 

[LostMarbels]

She.

***EDIT*** Sorry for that....