Islamophobia.

[NotreDame]

It is when we already have strict entrance requirements. Before the Paris attacks we had only agreed to take in 10,000 refugees in 2016. Canada, in contrast took in 25,000 in a six week period.

No, because even with strict entry requirements, a request for a temporary moratorium of accepting Syrian refugees can be made without being based on a phobia of Islam or Muslims. Such a request is based, for some, on safety concerns. Based on what's happened, the totality of what has transpired and I'm not just referencing the tragedy in Paris, such a request isn't irrational.

After all, FBI Director Comey said not all of the Syrian refugees can be properly "vetted."

 

[amanuensis63]

[
No, the "only way to make risk assessments" is not to only compare numbers between one risk and another.

Actually that is wrong. These are not completely unrelated risks. We are talking about the statistical probability of our lives being endangered.

That is why I made the comparison between flying and driving on the highway.

No, this does not render the action taken to the lower probability risk as "irrational."

By definition it does. Again, my example of the fear of flying. One person may wish to lower their risk against an already lower risk behavior by taking part in a higher risk behavior.

Rather, this suggests more action is needed for the higher probability risk.

In the wake of 9/11 we created the TSA. In these last 14 years we have seen the TSA consistently fail about 95% of the "tests" run against them to find items that should be kept off planes. Repeatedly so. There is no evidence that TSA has ever stopped a terrorist attack (the shoe and underwear bombers were both stopped by passengers on the flight, the liquid bombers were stopped by intelligence groups, etc.) We have spent millions of dollars to secure ourselves against a terrorist when that money could have been more well spent elsewhere.

We are not acting rationally with regards to terrorism. And that is precisely how terrorism works.

The point of terrorism is to get people to act irrationally with respect to the probability of future attacks.

Meanwhile we watch as thousands of Americans are killed by other things which we won't touch (like guns).

In addition I do not believe "extreme measures" have been taken to the lower probability, but I digress.

The TSA would be a simple example. But the expansion of wiretaps internal to the USA and the FISA courts etc. would be better examples of what we seem willing to give up for security theater.

Furthermore, why are we even discussing gun violence/gun death risk?

Simple: when I get up in the morning and I look around and say "what is the most likely way for me to die today?" the answer is clearly the fact that I am FAR more likely to be killed by an American weilding a gun than I am by a terrorist.

If money is to be spent moderating a risk I'd much rather it be spent moderating that risk than moderating the lower risk of terrorism against me.

Look, I'm not making the argument that we should do nothing against terrorism. What I'm saying is that we respond poorly when we respond irrationally. We invest money and effort and often do rather bad things (like the House vote to halt Syrian refugee intake) when we act irrationally.

A few points, again, a numbers comparison in this context is a lousy risk assessment.

Perhaps it is because I do statistics as part of my job, but unfortunately, numbers are how risk is assessed.

 

[LostMarbels]

I'm only going to address that very first verse, the only one which mentions beheading or terror since it is such a good example of how the hate-blogs distort the Qur'an:

Here is how you quoted 8:12:
"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them."

But here is what the verse actually said:
"When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger."
Note the first part of the verse was deliberately cut off on hate-blog version deceiving people into thinking the Qur'an was ordering people to do the beheading when in fact God was ordering angels to do so in this story.

And I accept that response. I may very well be wrong in "cherry picking" that one verse out of context. I am not a hater. I am a seeker of truth, and I do not find any mercy for the nonbeliever (non Muslim) in the Koran. Islam is the only religion I am aware of that Jesus himself will return as a vindicator for their own religion. Islam teaches that Jesus will descend at the point of a white arcade, east of Damascus, dressed in yellow robes—his head anointed. He will then join the Mahdi in his war against the Dajjal. Jesus, considered in Islam as a Muslim (one who submits to God) and one of God's messengers, will abide by the Islamic teachings. Eventually, Jesus will slay the Antichrist Dajjal, and then everyone from the People of the Book (ahl al-kitāb, referring to Jews and Christians) will believe in him. Thus, there will be one community, that of Islam. Sahih Muslim, 41:7023 Volume 3, Book 43, Number 656:
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you as a just ruler, he will break the cross, kill the pigs, and abolish the Jizya tax. Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it (as charitable gifts).

We see the beheadings, and persecution going on in present day. But the only thing I am aware of concerning the Antichrist is that Islam is teaches that Jesus is going to return as a Muslim, renounce Christianity and state that the cross was a hoax. Jesus will then (as Isa) smash every cross he can, and kill every Jew, and Christian that will not convert to Islam. And again this will be done by beheading them, and causing fear. two parts of scripture come to mind concerning this:

Mat 24:4-9 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.


Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

I think Islam will be the religion used to bring in the second coming of Jesus.

 

[smaneck]

What exactly is your point? I only ask because everything in my post would support your or is in agreement with your statement above.

I'm agreeing with you.

 

[NotreDame]

I'm agreeing with you.

My bad man. Hard to read people on the Internet.[emoji106]

 

[interpreter]

Jesus has no enemies*8. He returns good for evil, turns the other cheek, is crucified rather than a crucifier, etc.. The idea that we are supposed to "kill his enemies" is silly. As if God would need our help taking people out if that's what he actually wanted doesn't make sense either.

* People might consider Jesus an enemy, or even act as if he were one, but Jesus doesn't suffer from egotism, suffer from the passion of pride, etc and thereby doesn't return the misguided attitude.

Wrong. Jesus has lots of enemies and we are commanded to kill them (in Luke 19:27). That's what Christian nations have been doing since 312 AD when the sign of the Son of Man appeared in the clouds and Jesus returned with the first Christian kingdom to rule the earth and kill His enemies. The US, founded by George Washington who rode a pale horse, is the 4th Christian "horseman" to rule the earth for Jesus. Our weapons bring hell and death to the enemies of Jesus. We are now dropping 100-pound "hailstones" on the latest face of the 7th head of Satan in the Battle of Ar Mageddon, which began on 9/11 when the Euphrates was dry.

 

[JustOneWay]

Christians are commanded to kill enemies of Jesus....

Muslims are commanded to kill the infidel....

Hmm.....

 

[interpreter]

It is when we already have strict entrance requirements. Before the Paris attacks we had only agreed to take in 10,000 refugees in 2016. Canada, in contrast took in 25,000 in a six week period.

Canada's PM is insane, and so is Obama. The majority of US voters have common sense and don't want the US to accept any more Muslims. If Obama goes against the will of the people, he should be impeached.

 

[Hank77]

It is when we already have strict entrance requirements. Before the Paris attacks we had only agreed to take in 10,000 refugees in 2016. Canada, in contrast took in 25,000 in a six week period.

Are you suggesting that because another country does something we have to? I don't think so.
Because Joe jumps off a cliff, without thoroughly checking for rocks under the water, doesn't mean you or I should. It doesn't mean that I should trust that Ray has thoroughly checked for rocks under the water.

Neither do I believe that we need to bring young, single, men here as refugees. Families with children and the elderly only.

 

[JustOneWay]

Lindsey Graham: "Take our fair share" or "take down the Statue of Liberty"



http://www.cbsnews.com/news/where-the-2016-candidates-stand-on-the-syrian-refugee-crisis/

 

[smaneck]

Are you suggesting that because another country does something we have to? I don't think so.

I'm suggesting that Canada, with far fewer resources, has shown itself to be much more humane than we are.

Neither do I believe that we need to bring young, single, men here as refugees. Families with children and the elderly only.

These young men are part of families. There is no reason for us to split them up.

 

[smaneck]

Lindsey Graham: "Take our fair share" or "take down the Statue of Liberty"

I never thought I'd say this, but Bravo for Lindsay Graham!

 

[interpreter]

Christians are commanded to kill enemies of Jesus....

Muslims are commanded to kill the infidel....

Hmm.....

The difference is, Jesus is the Son of God and blesses Christian nations with superior weapons, while Mohamed was possessed by Satan and therefore his followers have only crude and inferior weapons. They have started the Battle of Ar Mageddon, but they don't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning it. The final battle between good and evil results in Satan being so soundly defeated that He wont be heard from again for a thousand years.

 

[JustOneWay]

I never thought I'd say this, but Bravo for Lindsay Graham!

I agree. I found a new respect for him due to his comment.

 

[JustOneWay]

Blesses nations with superior weapons!

Poe alert.

 

[ecco]

Those are the words of the Koran. Behead... kill.... fear... terror.

These are the words of the Bible. Kill women and children, rape the young virgins.

Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."(Numbers 31:16-18)​

 

[AionPhanes]

Wrong. Jesus has lots of enemies and we are commanded to kill them (in Luke 19:27). That's what Christian nations have been doing since 312 AD when the sign of the Son of Man appeared in the clouds and Jesus returned with the first Christian kingdom to rule the earth and kill His enemies. The US, founded by George Washington who rode a pale horse, is the 4th Christian "horseman" to rule the earth for Jesus. Our weapons bring hell and death to the enemies of Jesus. We are now dropping 100-pound "hailstones" on the latest face of the 7th head of Satan in the Battle of Ar Mageddon, which began on 9/11 when the Euphrates was dry.

The verse in Lukes isn't Jesus giving a command. It's a parable that points out actions a king would be likely to take in said scenario. While it certainly makes allusion to the situation of Christ (who was a king etc..) it doesn't imply that he would do the same thing a violent earthly king would do thankfully. He is merely trying to awaken them to the extremity of the situation.

Christ tells us explicitly to love our enemies in order "to be like your Father in heaven" who "makes his sun to shine on both the just and the unjust." IE our Father loves and does good towards everyone and we should be like him. See Matthew 5.

 

[ecco]

If we hadn't invaded Iraq there would be no ISIS.

And then there is this:

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/10/syrian-civil-war-guide-isis/410746/

Syria’s conflict has devolved from peaceful protests against the government in 2011 to a violent insurgency that has drawn in numerous other countries. It’s partly a civil war of government against people; partly a religious war pitting Assad’s minority Alawite sect, aligned with Shiite fighters from Iran and Hezbollah in Lebanon, against Sunni rebel groups; and increasingly a proxy warfeaturing Russia and Iran against the United States and its allies. Whatever it is, it has so far killed 220,000 people, displaced half of the country’s population, andfacilitated the rise of ISIS.​

Assad, like Hussain, was a mean nasty person who was "elected" President. After the Iraq debacle, we should have known better than to get involved.

 

[Hank77]

Christians are commanded to kill enemies of Jesus....

Huh????
Scripture please. If you can't provide it I will assume you are making that up.

I'm only going to address that very first verse, the only one ,which mentions beheading or terror since it is such a good example of how the hate-blogs distort the Qur'an:

Here is how you quoted 8:12:
"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them."

But here is what the verse actually said:
"When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger."
Note the first part of the verse was deliberately cut off on hate-blog version deceiving people into thinking the Qur'an was ordering people to do the beheading when in fact God was ordering angels to do so in this story.

You know, I'm going to believe what some peaceful and honest Muslims say about the Koran before I believe you. And they admit that there are verses in the Koran the teach violence against all unbelievers and especially against apostate Muslims, but they do not believe that they should be doing those things today. So in fact, they are not followers of Mohammad or Islam. They have developed their own belief system that keeps the things they see as good and dumped the rest.
What did Mohammad, the founder of Islam, do? What did he believe? He murdered those who would not convert, he was a man of war.

These young men are part of families. There is no reason for us to split them up.

If they are single, they do not have children. They can stay about anywhere. OUR young men, even those with families, put their lives in danger, and always have, to protect the people of this country. They can do the same for their country, their region of the world, their culture.
If they want to become citizens of the US they can apply thorough the regular means that all other immigrants do.

Do you think that the young men of this country would abandon this country if we were invaded? Or would they stay and defend her, their families, and their culture?
It is not like they don't have forces/armies that they could join with to overthrow ISIS.

 

[JustOneWay]

Huh????
Scripture please. If you can't provide it I will assume you are making that up.

Those are not my words or thoughts. look to this posthttp://www.christianforums.com/threads/islamophobia.7918828/page-11#post-68907677

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/islamophobia.7918828/page-11#post-68907523