Islamic refugees

[CaptainToad]

Interesting that you used that analogy. I do have a daughter and a son. After I separated from their mom, I couldnt bare the fact that their mother was not a good influence to them. After 11 years in the church, she decided to go out to the world and that she did with a bang. I would take my 2 teenagers to church Sabbath morning and she would then try to take them with her partying Sabbath evening. That would put me in a ... and I would call her and question her. Gets what? RO, Restraining Order, in front of a judge. She felt harassed and so on. This when one for a couple of years. You know what make me stop? My son. Now he is 20. He pulled me aside one day and said to me "dad you made a big mistake". You worked too hard to keep this family together. Now it is time for my sister and I to show you what you thought us.

I backed off and they have shown me how great my Lord has been in their lives. I am very proud of my children. For example, when my daughter started at Southern Adventist University, the school gave her a job in the cafeteria. Yes, cafeteria, everyone has to eat including on Sabbath. Guess what? When Sabbath came, she told the administration that she didnt work for anyone on Sabbath and walked away. She didnt call me or anyone. She knew what to do.

Therefore to answer your question on regard to the rape, I would pray with my daughter to forgive that individual and hope that all that she has learned from Jesus and love that she has received Him, and my love for her and my testimony will help her continue seeking the Lord as she awaits for the Second Coming.

I used that analogy because it has been happening a lot of times in Germany recently - muslims apparently dont really care about women...

I get your point - you had some tough experiences within the SDA and they have among others shaped your thinking - I dont blame you.

I believe that the Lord has given us a mind and a will to use it that why I disagree with your general thinking.

 

[CaptainToad]

No - my point is that if someone had killed all 120 on the Day of Shavuot/Pentecost, where would the church be right now?

Theoretically you have a point - BUT you disregard our Lord Jesus completely here. If they all got killed the Lord would have found another way if their killing were an inevitable matter or something. Its almost like saying what if satan had killed Jesus when He was still a baby - would there be no salvation? I dont really like such thinking as I believe in the Sovereign Lord who runs things as He sees fit.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

No - my point is that if someone had killed all 120 on the Day of Shavuot/Pentecost, where would the church be right now?

Would God let that happen... do you believe that God's Will will be done?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

IMO this is a short sighted viewpoint.

How can we "Preach the gospel to every creature" (Mk 16) or "Make disciples in all nations," (Matt 28) if we are dead?

We are here to do a work and I do not intend to abandon my post until HE says I am done here.

What was the attitude of Paul and the other Apostles? Were they afraid of death, torture, imprisonment? No, they knew that God would preserve them if that was His plan and if not then they would rejoice in their afflictions for Christ's sake...

Your last line makes me think you don't believe that God is in control, that a rogue Muslim or someone else can subvert God's plan.

 

[CaptainToad]

What was the attitude of Paul and the other Apostles? Were they afraid of death, torture, imprisonment? No, they knew that God would preserve them if that was His plan and if not then they would rejoice in their afflictions for Christ's sake...

Your last line makes me think you don't believe that God is in control, that a rogue Muslim or someone else can subvert God's plan.

Exactly, Gods plan is above everything!

To be honest, even though I raised that question (probably because its a current and somewhat pressing matter here in Europe) I dont really care what happens - naturally my opinion doesnt really count in this world, so if they let in a wave of muslims into my country (which I hope they wont) and this should get me killed - well, so be it - the Lord decides about life and death.

Still, as long as I am alive I am entitled to a free will and a free opinion!

 

[Gabriel Anton]

Just btw, as many of you have realized, islamic refugees are flooding Europe. A woman names Merkel has invited them, not that she has asked me or anybody else, but still those people are coming. I dont like it - to say it bluntly. Its a pagan religion in my opinion, and those people are apparently dangerous, ticking time bombs (no pun intended).

The arabic nations, who are their brothers dont want to help them, but they want to send down some money to muild mosques - yeah, thats funny...

WHat do you guys think, should christians really help those guys or send them back to where they came from?

If I was a Christian King ruling over a Christian country and had supreme and absolute authority over everyone in my country like Pharaoh did, I would send all Islamic refugees to Christian camps set up by myself.
In the Christian camps, they would be cleansed of their Islamic faith and filled with the Glory of the True Christian Faith by the Light of the Holy Spirit for their Salvation. Whoever does not want to renounce their Islamic faith would be returned back home. The new converts to Christianity would swear an oath of allegiance to God, to me, the King and to the Christian people of my country to protect, serve us with all their heart, mind and soul. We will return them the same favour in kind. All the laws of the land will be taught to them in the Christian camps. Any acts of treason against our people or high treason against the King by those Christian converts will subject them to the death penalty where they will be given a good and proper trial and if found guilty, be summarily executed and put to death. As a Christian King, I will protect the Christian faith and provide law and order for all Christians living in the boundaries of my rule. There will be no poverty in terms of food, water, clothes and shelter for all Christians living in the boundaries of my rule. All Christians in the boundaries of my rule are expected to conform themselves to the image of Jesus Christ without exception because God wills it. Justice and Mercy shall be the Foundations of my throne and the Word of God, the Light of my Life. That is my view if I was in power.

I have no views about Islamic refugees if I have no power because the secular nation's government has their own secular policy dealing with Islamic refugees in a secular manner.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

If I was a Christian King ruling over a Christian country and had supreme and absolute authority over everyone in my country like Pharoah did, I would send all Islamic refugees to Christian camps set up by myself.
In the Christian camps, they would be cleansed of their Islamic faith and filled with the Glory of the True Christian Faith by the Light of the Holy Spirit for their Salvation. Whoever does not want to renounce their Islamic faith would be returned back home. The new converts to Christianity would swear an oath of allegiance to God, to me, the King and to the Christian people of my country to protect, serve us with all their heart, mind and soul. We will return them the same favour in kind. All the laws of the land will be taught to them in the Christian camps. Any acts of treason against our people or high treason against the King by those Christian converts will subject them to the death penalty where they will be given a good and proper trial and if found guilty, be summarily executed and put to death. As a Christian King, I will protect the Christian faith and provide law and order for all Christians living in the boundaries of my rule. There will be no poverty in terms of food, water, clothes and shelter for all Christians living in the boundaries of my rule. All Christians in the boundaries of my rule are expected to conform themselves to the image of Jesus Christ without exception because God wills it. Justice and Mercy shall be the Foundations of my throne and the Word of God, the Light of my Life. That is my view if I was in power.

I have no views about Islamic refugees if I have no power because the secular nation's government has their own secular policy dealing with Islamic refugees in a secular manner.

It sounds like the Christian Crusades.... theocracy always lead to persecution of those not of the "rulers" beliefs. Fwiw, the "Christian" Papacy killed millions of God's people because they would not worship as they were told.

 

[Gabriel Anton]

It sounds like the Christian Crusades.... theocracy always lead to persecution of those not of the "rulers" beliefs. Fwiw, the "Christian" Papacy killed millions of God's people because they would not worship as they were told.

What would you call a Kingdom ruled by Jesus Christ?

If you were being persecuted in a secular nation going nuts for secularism, would you take your loved ones to a Christian nation going nuts for Jesus Christ or an Islamic nation going nuts for Allah or a Hindu nation going nuts for Hinduism or a Buddhist nation going nuts for Buddha if you were a Christian?

 

[CaptainToad]

It sounds like the Christian Crusades.... theocracy always lead to persecution of those not of the "rulers" beliefs. Fwiw, the "Christian" Papacy killed millions of God's people because they would not worship as they were told.

Yeah, you cannot really force anyone into a faith. If you want to help then help without any hidden agenda.

 

[love2obey]

What would you call a Kingdom ruled by Jesus Christ?

If you were being persecuted in a secular nation going nuts for secularism, would you take your loved ones to a Christian nation going nuts for Jesus Christ or an Islamic nation going nuts for Allah or a Hindu nation going nuts for Hinduism or a Buddhist nation going nuts for Buddha if you were a Christian?

Well apostle Paul uses the term to be IN CHRIST, is to be in His body as territory. It is not that one will see Christ in me but Christ and not me. Therefore, were ever Christ go, I will go because I am in Him. HE TAKES ME. The territory that our Lord Jesus Christ wants to take control of is ME. the moment that we totally surrender my mind, my heart, my soul to Christ, we no longer worry about what is going to happen to us. it already happened all that needed to happened. Jesus accepted me. I am worry free. I will live for ever.
In our quest to keep seeing ourselves on earth, is that keep us from truly embracing the blessing of a true relationship with Christ, being Christ-like

 

[Gabriel Anton]

Well apostle Paul uses the term to be IN CHRIST, is to be in His body as territory. It is not that one will see Christ in me but Christ and not me. Therefore, were ever Christ go, I will go because I am in Him. HE TAKES ME. The territory that our Lord Jesus Christ wants to take control of is ME. the moment that we totally surrender my mind, my heart, my soul to Christ, we no longer worry about what is going to happen to us. it already happened all that needed to happened. Jesus accepted me. I am worry free. I will live for ever.
In our quest to keep seeing ourselves on earth, is that keep us from truly embracing the blessing of a true relationship with Christ, being Christ-like

I understand what you are saying. But I fear whether you understand what you are saying. If you do, then you are blessed indeed by God.

 

[Gabriel Anton]

Yeah, you cannot really force anyone into a faith. If you want to help then help without any hidden agenda.

I beg your pardon CaptainToad as I'm not sure whether your message was addressed to me. May I enquire as to what hidden agenda you are referring to as I am at a lost to what is contained in the hidden agenda?

And who is forcing anyone into a faith?

 

[Dave-W]

Your last line makes me think you don't believe that God is in control, that a rogue Muslim or someone else can subvert God's plan.

Nothing is farther from the truth.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Nothing is farther from the truth.

Then why worry...

Luke 12:4
And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

 

[Dave-W]

Luke 12:4
And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

If that is so - no worries - then why did our Lord give this instruction:

Matt 24. 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[love2obey]

I understand what you are saying. But I fear whether you understand what you are saying. If you do, then you are blessed indeed by God.

Blessings to you as well.
There is sermon that I preach "Christianity 101". When I went to school some 35 years ago, all the introductory classes with a general presentation of a particular field were "101": Psych 101, Phil 101. And I base this sermon on Romans 16:10 Greet Apelles, approved in Christ. Greet those who are of the household of Aristobulus. It may seem to be a simple greeting that Paul makes but when he says that this person is approved in Christ, he is making a huge statement. Why? Throughout all his letters, he uses them to teach, discipline, aid, guide the readers to the Light. For Apelles, he has nothing but admiration. You are in the Light.

What is to be approved in Christ?
Christ is the test and the teacher

1. John 3:16, know who Jesus is and what he is to us
2. Acts 9, being able to recognize that moment that you meet Jesus
3. 1 John 2:1-6, anyone who has ever met the Lord has gone thru a life changing experience. Surrenders and the world will see it

One longer longs to be saved but being like the Savior, bringing salvation to the rest of the world. One persona, demeanor's changes. Let us not forget that all came to Jesus and Jesus didnt have to go to anyone unless the asked for Him.
Approved in Christ, we are Heaven bound and earth is just the proving grounds.

I NEVER PREACH ABOUT SOMETHING THAT I DONT FULLY UNDERSTAND WITH MY SOUL. I MUST FEEL IT AND NOT JUST BELIEVE IT.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

If that is so - no worries - then why did our Lord give this instruction:

Matt 24. 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

That was, as you know, primarily about Jerusalem circa ad70 but it does also have an end time application for when God's people will be again persecuted, this time as never before in history. God does not expect us to stand around as cattle to the slaughter but to avoid, if possible, the tribulation to come and to rely on Him to sustain us in that time. Some of us will be martyred during that time and we should look to the example of the reformers for our faith and surrender to God at that time.

Adventists have been warned about this and have been counselled for decades not to live in the cities but to get into the country side, grow our own food and know that someday we may have to leave even these places of recluse and go into the wilderness.

 

[Dave-W]

I completely get that.

 

[Gabriel Anton]

Blessings to you as well.
There is sermon that I preach "Christianity 101". When I went to school some 35 years ago, all the introductory classes with a general presentation of a particular field were "101": Psych 101, Phil 101. And I base this sermon on Romans 16:10 Greet Apelles, approved in Christ. Greet those who are of the household of Aristobulus. It may seem to be a simple greeting that Paul makes but when he says that this person is approved in Christ, he is making a huge statement. Why? Throughout all his letters, he uses them to teach, discipline, aid, guide the readers to the Light. For Apelles, he has nothing but admiration. You are in the Light.

What is to be approved in Christ?
Christ is the test and the teacher

1. John 3:16, know who Jesus is and what he is to us
2. Acts 9, being able to recognize that moment that you meet Jesus
3. 1 John 2:1-6, anyone who has ever met the Lord has gone thru a life changing experience. Surrenders and the world will see it

One longer longs to be saved but being like the Savior, bringing salvation to the rest of the world. One persona, demeanor's changes. Let us not forget that all came to Jesus and Jesus didnt have to go to anyone unless the asked for Him.
Approved in Christ, we are Heaven bound and earth is just the proving grounds.

I NEVER PREACH ABOUT SOMETHING THAT I DONT FULLY UNDERSTAND WITH MY SOUL. I MUST FEEL IT AND NOT JUST BELIEVE IT.

Thank you for the sermon on Christianity 101, Preacher. Much appreciated.

It's good that you only preach about something you fully understand with your soul. It's good that you feel it and not just believe it.

What would be even better is, whether the ones you are preaching to can clearly understand what you are preaching about with feeling in which you yourself understand with your soul.

Praise be to God. Amen.

 

[love2obey]

Thank you for the sermon on Christianity 101, Preacher. Much appreciated.

It's good that you only preach about something you fully understand with your soul. It's good that you feel it and not just believe it.

What would be even better is, whether the ones you are preaching to can clearly understand what you are preaching about with feeling in which you yourself understand with your soul.

Praise be to God. Amen.

the love and fear of God is the key for all message to be understood. Many will bring out their bible and start reciting it like if was a poem or discuss it like if they were reading Shakespeare. It is not about what we know but who we know as we speak when we echo the bible.
For instance, when we truly understand the Sabbath, we will not ever think of it as a day of the week or 24 hrs of a week. it is like speaking of marriage as a piece of paper or being committed to a woman. Our human minds will always guide us to the obvious that our senses is feeding it. Never can our senses perceive beyond what they are designed to do. Yet, when our heart, our soul, has been taken over (after we surrender) by the Holy Spirit, our Lord Jesus Christ, we are empower perceive beyond our human abilities.