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rahma

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maccoy77 said:
Ok you have offcially lost the debate anyway nice debating with you. Thanks. May god bless you.

No, my dear Maccoy, I was a competative debator for several years. What we have here is a discussion, not a debate. There are no ground rules, no set topic, no research, no judges, nothing that would make this a debate.

I chose to withdraw from the discussion.


However, if your self esteem is so low that you need to crow about calling people stupid, then you go right ahead.

Peace out. SubhanAllah wa Bihamdih!
 
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maccoy77

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rahma said:
No, my dear Maccoy, I was a competative debator for several years. What we have here is a discussion, not a debate. There are no ground rules, no set topic, no research, no judges, nothing that would make this a debate.

I chose to withdraw from the discussion.


However, if your self esteem is so low that you need to crow about calling people stupid, then you go right ahead.

Peace out. SubhanAllah wa Bihamdih!

I did not call anybody stupid. I always said Most muslims are Intelligent, but that intelligent is blinded by Fear. Its Reality man, sometimes truth hurt. I was also hurt but i overcame it.

May God bless you.
 
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farside

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A Christian :preach: view on Aisha’s age can be found at

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Silas/childbrides.htm



A freethinker :idea: view on Aisha’s age can be found at

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/ayesha.htm



A Muslim :eek: view on Aisha’s age can be found at

http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/Polemics/aishah.htm



And of course there is Farside’s view :) on Aisha’s age (not recommended for the devout Muslim members of this forum).

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=111623#111623



Support UNICEF Global Campaign to Prevent Child Marriages

http://www.unicef.org/newsline/01pr21.htm


Kind Regards,
Farside :)
 
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LaSalle

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Bookofknowledge said:
In ISLAM, Any person who commits crime is proven guilty the moment they committed it... Even if no one proves them guilty of crime they are criminals and will face the punishment in this world and hereafter unless GOD forgives them.

Believe it or not, that's the same for Christianity ... as far as God is concerned. BUT, when I say innocent until proven guilty, I mean that is if men are to decide. The terrorist who killed the little (in my example) when they slammed the plane into the WTC ... did he try everyone of the people he killed and deemed them guilty? Does Islam allow man to make judgement?

Of what crime anyway?

In any case, I sure hope you're NOT saying that what the terrorists did to the WTC is fine?

Bookofknowledge said:
Everyone is innocent until proven guilty of a crime :scratch: have you proven those died were terrorists or human kind?

So let me get this right slick, are you saying that the men who slammed the planes into the WTC were NOT terrorists?
 
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humblemuslim

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A Christian :preach: view on Aisha’s age can be found at

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Silas/childbrides.htm

The link as presented didn't work for me because of the "uk" part. Regardless I have comments on what is stated here:

" Thus Muslim men are allowed to marry and have intercourse with young girls who have happened to have an early first menstrual cycle. As will be shown, this leads to physical and psychological damage to the child. "

Rebuttle : Muslims can not FORCE marriage (Thus consent from the woman is required). The author can label whatever they will as "Child" but take this into consideration : I know people in their 70's and 80's that consider even 40 year old individuals as CHILDREN. Child is a social concept that is very dynamic and based upon opinion. I've known 12 year olds that look as old as even 18, and they might as well be 18 because they sometimes even act more mature than some so called "Adults".

" Most Western people know it is not in a 9 year old girl's best interest to engage in marriage and sexual relations with a 52 year old man, regardless of the cultural setting. We know that, in our culture today, a person doing such a thing could possible be sent to prison for sex with a minor, statutory rape, or other related laws. Most of us find it questionable for Muhammad, a self proclaimed prophet of God, to do such a thing. We expect a real prophet to know better, or at least hear from God on the matter. "

Rebuttle: This is purely a culture driven morality. Someone give me a strong moral argument instead of baseless cultural opinions and gut feelings. I challenge everyone that agrees with what is stated here to do so ;) You can't compare today's society with then. Under the situations and topics being discussed that is like comparing oranges to apples, there is no solid basis for a good worthwhile comparsion.


"What is more critical than Muhammad's single action with Aisha is that he taught that a girl is considered an adult following her first menstrual cycle. He also taught that his followers were to follow his "sunnah" or lifestyle. Thus today, throughout much of the Mideast, girls as young as nine are often married by men old enough to be their grandfather."

Rebuttle: Is the author calling God stupid for giving so called "Children" the capability to produce off-spring? Does the author believe he is more wise than the All-Wise All-Knowing God who gave woman the means to produce another life? If God intended this event to happen later, then menstration would have began later in a woman's life. Honestly, I wouldn't be mocking God's creation and design. :doh: I would expect an argument like this from an atheist, but a Christian? I'm appauled :eek:


"There is a mis-conception that when a young girl has her first menarche, she is capable of getting pregnant. Many primitive cultures believed that a girl can become pregnant following menarche; Muhammad's culture probably believed this as well. However, science tells us this is very rare."

Rebuttle: "After the onset of menarche, most women are able to become pregnant and bear children." states Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women) I'm not sure who to trust. The anti-islamic Christian website or the encylcopedia...:scratch: Also refer to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menarche for more information. Is the Christian here lying? Or maybe in today's world birth at this age is rare, personally I'm no expert BUT I do know humans have changed every since we were put on this earth. Or maybe some selective study supporting the conclusion stated (One that would ensure such a result, rigging the result if you will) is being referred to.


Honestly I don't have the time to respond to every detail (But I'd be glad to respond to select portions brought forth to me). But from what I've commented on this site fails to show any wrong on the part of the prophet.
 
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humblemuslim

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A freethinker :idea: view on Aisha’s age can be found at

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/ayesha.htm

The music on the website is very distasteful to start off, which reveals something about the author here.

"The thought of an old man becoming aroused by a child is one of the most disturbing thoughts that makes us cringe as it reminds us of pedophilia and the most despicable people. It is difficult to accept that the Holy Prophet married Aisha when she was 6-years-old and consummated his marriage with her when she was 9. He was then, 54 years old."

Rebuttle: First I'd like to note the authors apparent Agist attitude. From a moral persective I've never seen age been noted as a MORALLY RELAVENT CRITERIA, and I challenge anyone to present age as such. This is a gut feeling argument, which from a moral stand point is baseless. Gut feelings can be applied to anything, and if morality was judged by gut feelings you'd have no such thing as "Morality" just a bunch of opinions floating around baselessly.

"Abu Bakr and Muhammad had pledged to each other to be brothers. So according to their costoms Ayesha was supposed to be like a niece to the Holy Prophet. Yet that did not stop him to ask her hand even when she was only six years old. "

Rebuttle: Is this honestly the best argument they can make at this point? "According to their customs," and who is saying their customs are correct? Slavery was a "Custom" of the USA in history, was it right? No! This custom argument entirely ignores the Qur'an, which is quite ironic. Point being this argument holds no solid ground.


"But this moral relativist Prophet would use the same excuse to reject a woman he did not like. "

Once I got here I was shocked at the hypcocritical statement that author had just written. Muhammad is a moral relativist? Absurd, the author here is a ethical relativist, cultural one specifically. The only justification he offers to stating that the marriage is immoral is a gut feeling that was embodied into him by his culture and upraising. Unbelievable is all I have to say to this....Unbelievable...:eek: (Plus the author merely claims Muhammad is such, he never takes the time to properly prove it.)

"No sane person would be aroused by a 9-year-old child. Decent people wince at the thought of this shameful act. Yet some Muslims deny them. The question is why so many followers of Muhammad would fabricate so many false hadithes about the age of Ayisha, which incidentally confirm each other?"

More baseless gut feelings inspired by cultural and otherwise personal upbringing. The author once again fails to even provide a moral argument that this is even shameful or immoral, they merely offer the statements assuming others are having the same gut feelings (But Gut feelings are hardly moral arguments).

In fact if we go to see what the author believes about morality, I find it alittle less than pleasing:

"
I agree that morality is relative and we should not judge the ancient people’s morality with our modern morality."

I disagree with this statment. Morality IS objective by concept. People in history have made it to be subjective only to achieve their own vain desires. In essence they are mislabeling their acts with the concept "Morality" just to gain popularity for their vain desires. You call something moral and it sounds good, but calling something moral doesn't make it moral! The author seems to not have even a basic knowledge of morality and yet he is trying to aruge morality against the prophet. Very interesting, and yet distrubing :sigh: Not someone I would necessarily trust since for him all morality is happens to be a gut feeling based relative to one's time, culture, and upbringing.


Infact if you read other articles on related topics you see the author continually denies any sort of contraversy over the age of this specific wife Muhammad had. He brushes honest and worthwhile responses with merely "Possiblities elsewise" and then insults the responses for doing the same, in order the author is a gross hypocrite. If both sides can present worthwhile possiblities without stretching beyond a reasonable level then no one should sit around and dictate the absoulte truth. What they should be doing is either offering their personal beliefs or analyzing a honest possiblity of each side and see who they weight against each other.

Again I don't see this site having a solid position. If again anyone has a specific question regarding a specific comment on this site feel free to ask, I shall respond to the best of my ability.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/ayesha.htm
 
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humblemuslim

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So let me get this right slick, are you saying that the men who slammed the planes into the WTC were NOT terrorists?

I wrote a paper on Terrorism actually for an Ethics course I took. One thing I found out is the concept of Terrosim is horribly ambiguious. I ask you, what do you think terrorism is? In my paper I did come to a conclusion of what I believe it to be and gave conditions that an action must meet in order to be terrorism. I'm just curious what you personally believe it to be. And believe me even the dictionary does a horrible job of defining it from a moral persective. Also can you assume all terrorism is immoral? I'd like for you to answer these questions please. And keep in mind I'm asking this in general, I'm not specifically relating these questions to 9/11.

peace
 
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humblemuslim

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And of course there is Farside’s view :) on Aisha’s age (not recommended for the devout Muslim members of this forum).

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=111623#111623


I am devout, but your recommendation to not view the article is one disgression I'll have to respectful ignore. I'm open to any point of view, although I might not agree and I'll examine it and tell you some thoughts as I've done in the other articles you presented.


I find your first question to be entirely rherotical and useless to any worthwhile argument. This is a stride to gain favor based on gut feelings, not strong grounds to be making a moral argument.

The second question can be answered in a number of ways. There is a Hadith that statements Muhammad did have dream multiple times from which he derived the desrie to marry Aisha. Meaning that Muhammad didn't pursue her by his own desires (But take this as you will, as I'm sure someone will argue that he just said this to fullfill his own desires. Opinion pitted against opinion, no point to further analyze). And who is saying Muhammad favored Aisha? Could you supply some proof of this please?


"If you marry at the age of nine and your daughter was born during the first year of marriage, at what age would you become a grandmother if your daughter followed your example?"

This being your 3rd question is again striving for gut feelings to achieve your rhetorical purpose. If you wish to use this attempt I pose this is rebuttle: People in this time period didn't live as long as we live today. The prophet lived to only be in his 60's (Today this is considerablely young to die, as many people live much higher and up to being 100). Therefore if people commonly died around the age of 30-60 I'm certain "Grand" parents would likewise be lower in age than we expect them to be in today's times. This should be common sense I hope.


Then you finally mention health risks of youthful people having children. I pose the following in response: You now should understand people didn't live as long in this period of time. You should also realize that society didnt' require people to wait till their 20's to marry.

Using this knowledge let's do something alittle different. I think the average life-span of a woman is about 70? Might be alittle more but what the heck, if you have an exact number feel free to share it if you require so. The average life-span of this time period couldn't have been anything more than maybe 40. If you must detest this then offer specifics as to a more accurate number. Anyways, if people are on the average living to be only 40, then 40 in these times would be like your grandma that is about at the end of her road. The life span of the olden times based on this information is about 57% of what we expect now. What would you consider to be a good age to have kids today? Maybe 22? No later than 30? If we even go as low as to say 20: you get that this age is only 45% to that of what we expect. If you go as high as 30 you get a 30% of what we expect. In essence given the times these percentages seem reasonable. If you disagree offer solid reasons why. Because from this a person in their 20's in those times would be about equal to that of somewhat around the age of 35-50 in today's society. Most of the arguments made against the prophet ignore such facts and make claims making several assumptions which can be proven false.



peace

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=111623#111623
 
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humblemuslim

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A Muslim :eek: view on Aisha’s age can be found at

http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/Polemics/aishah.htm


You can also find another aritcle at http://www.answering-christianity.org/aisha.htm (The opposing site to the Christian site you mentioned) Some of what is stated is worth reading, other things are at the disgression of the reader as to what they find useful.


"Such a claim is based only on conjecture and moral relativism, and not on fact."

Very similar statement to that which I've made on this thread.


I'm curious as to what parts of this site do you disagree with so greatly that it deserves the shocked smile animation.


peace
http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/Polemics/aishah.htm
 
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LaSalle

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humblemuslim said:
I wrote a paper on Terrorism actually for an Ethics course I took. One thing I found out is the concept of Terrosim is horribly ambiguious. I ask you, what do you think terrorism is? In my paper I did come to a conclusion of what I believe it to be and gave conditions that an action must meet in order to be terrorism. I'm just curious what you personally believe it to be. And believe me even the dictionary does a horrible job of defining it from a moral persective. Also can you assume all terrorism is immoral? I'd like for you to answer these questions please. And keep in mind I'm asking this in general, I'm not specifically relating these questions to 9/11.

peace

Yes I agree, the definition of terrorism is elusive. 'One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter'. But while the definition may be difficult to pin down; it is usually clear from the perpetrated attacks what constitutes a terrorist act; and here are some clear cut examples -

The 9/11 attacks
The attack on the FBI building by Tim McVeigh
The Unabomber etc

I think from here it becomes obvious that the attacks have a similar trend; in that all the targets are indescriminate and almost always include innocent people/non-combatans/women & children.

ANY killing of innocent people are immoral. i.e. terrorism, as defined by that example, would be immoral.

Do you think terrorism can be moral in certain circumstances?
 
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humblemuslim

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I think from here it becomes obvious that the attacks have a similar trend; in that all the targets are indescriminate and almost always include innocent people/non-combatans/women & children.

Indiscriminate? This can be argued and I disagree that this is a characteristic of terrorism. One reason might exihibit that if it were a characteristic the 9/11 attacks would not be considered terrorism. The targets were, it seems, very carefully choosen to damage the American economy and sense of secuirty (Again causing further economical damages).

Targets of innocent people/non-combatants is actually one item that I did come to.


I personal came to the conclusion of three characteristics/features an event must meet to be terrorism:

First of all, the act must be the intentional use of or threat of force or violence to bring about a change to a society or organization that is politically oriented. Secondly, the act must intentionally cause uneasiness or terror to the member’s of the targeted society or organization, which again is motivated by politically oriented goals. Finally the target must be a non-military, also known as a non-combatant target.

The item being an item you mentioned. Under my conditions you can certainly place 9/11 as terrorism among other events.


ANY killing of innocent people are immoral. i.e. terrorism, as defined by that example, would be immoral.

Circumstance is important even still. For instance accidental killing can't be labeled immoral, I wouldn't think. Maybe a slight modification as follows would allow me to agree with you :

"ANY INTENTIONAL killing of innocent people is immoral"

And in my paper I created two terms to describe two kinds of terrorism: Simple and Complex. I defined each as follows:

Simple Terrorism - Terrorism that is not intended to kill or harm members of the targeted society or organization.

Complex Terrorism - Terrorism that is intended to kill or harm members of the targeted society or organization.

Therefore by the modified original statement you offered and the two defined forms of terrorism I came to the conclusion that Complex Terrorism is NEVER Moral (i.e. Never morally permissible, otherwise stated as Immoral) regardless of circumstance. And I came to the conclusion that Simple terrorism is only moral permissible if induced by an injustice supplied or supported by the organization or society being targeted.


Thereby showing that I feel not all forms of terrorism are necessarily immoral.

What do you think of this?

peace
 
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LaSalle

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Actually, some of the verses you quoted from the Quran sounds a lot like our bible, a simple search with key words is all you have to do to find some examples. Here, see what I mean -

Genesis 16
So God said to Noah, "I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth.

Leviticus 26:18
" 'If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over.

2 Sam 7:14
I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with the rod of men, with floggings inflicted by men.

Psalm 59:4
I have done no wrong, yet they are ready to attack me.
Arise to help me; look on my plight!
5 O LORD God Almighty, the God of Israel,
rouse yourself to punish all the nations;
show no mercy to wicked traitors.

6 They return at evening,
snarling like dogs,
and prowl about the city.

Then we have Abraham pleading for Sodom

Genesis 18:16 to 28
what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city because of five people?" "If I find forty-five there," he said, "I will not destroy it."


Ezekiel 6
1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, set your face against the mountains of Israel; prophesy against them 3 and say: 'O mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Sovereign LORD. This is what the Sovereign LORD says to the mountains and hills, to the ravines and valleys: I am about to bring a sword against you, and I will destroy your high places. 4 Your altars will be demolished and your incense altars will be smashed; and I will slay your people in front of your idols. 5 I will lay the dead bodies of the Israelites in front of their idols, and I will scatter your bones around your altars. 6 Wherever you live, the towns will be laid waste and the high places demolished, so that your altars will be laid waste and devastated, your idols smashed and ruined, your incense altars broken down, and what you have made wiped out. 7 Your people will fall slain among you, and you will know that I am the LORD.

Hosea 9:16
Ephraim is blighted, their root is withered, they yield no fruit. Even if they bear children, I will slay their cherished offspring."

Luke 12


45But suppose the servant says to himself, 'My master is taking a long time in coming,' and he then begins to beat the menservants and maidservants and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers. 47"That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows.


You want more?


The bottom line?

You cannot just pick passages out from the Quran to show this kind of speech and infer then that it is a religion of evil. How about you look to the places where they talk about love and charity and caring for the innocent?

In any case, like I mentioned, are we not told by Jesus to love our enemies?
 
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LaSalle

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humblemuslim said:
Circumstance is important even still. For instance accidental killing can't be labeled immoral, I wouldn't think. Maybe a slight modification as follows would allow me to agree with you :

"ANY INTENTIONAL killing of innocent people is immoral"

And in my paper I created two terms to describe two kinds of terrorism: Simple and Complex. I defined each as follows:

Simple Terrorism - Terrorism that is not intended to kill or harm members of the targeted society or organization.

Complex Terrorism - Terrorism that is intended to kill or harm members of the targeted society or organization.

Therefore by the modified original statement you offered and the two defined forms of terrorism I came to the conclusion that Complex Terrorism is NEVER Moral (i.e. Never morally permissible, otherwise stated as Immoral) regardless of circumstance. And I came to the conclusion that Simple terrorism is only moral permissible if induced by an injustice supplied or supported by the organization or society being targeted.


Thereby showing that I feel not all forms of terrorism are necessarily immoral.

What do you think of this?

peace

There were a couple of assumptions I had of course ...

These acts were all aimed at killing and of course it has to be intentional. So coming up with accidental is unnecessary.

So you define Simple Terrorism as an act not intended to kill or harm? Well, I agree but I think we have to qualify 'intention' to include the aviodance of the act if there is even a remote possibility that life is endangered.

If that's the case, I wouldn't even consider that terrorism ... heck, that's just vandalism! hahahaha

Well, it's good that you consider Complex Terrorism immoral. Does Islam say that is OK?

I'm guessing ... NO.

The problem is, the world is seeing too many Islamic extremists, and it's giving the true Muslims a terrible rep.
 
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humblemuslim

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There were a couple of assumptions I had of course ...

That's fine, I just perfer assumptions be made clear so they don't hinder the conservation at any point in time.


These acts were all aimed at killing and of course it has to be intentional. So coming up with accidental is unnecessary.

Well I can't really speak for the people's intentions (For any of the events labeled Terrorism) who performed the events. But it certainly is possible that their attacks were not intended to kill anyone. If their actions did result in the loss or injury of life it would be collateral damage under the circumstance that it wasn't intended. If the Terrorists would have been perfectly happy with an vacant target (Without innocent people) and it wasn't there intention to kill them, it would simple terrorism (Even if they realize people will be there. Although I would say that a vacant target should be perferred, but even in Offical "Wars" civilians are killed due to collateral damage, and of course the military knows they are there, but the war rages on).

On the other hand it might be possible certain events were carried out specifically to result in loss or injury to life, which would be immoral without question.

For instance let's say I am upset with Fedex for some reason. I decide I'm going to place a stink bomb in one of the places where innocent people are present and place it. I could have two intentions:

1. Target the people

2. Target Fedex

If I'm targeting the people my action would be immoral (Assuming the people there are not the people that caused my original reason for doing so, i.e. Innocent). Therefore my intention should be to target Fedex as a company, in this case I might be trying to cause them to lose business. But what about the people inside that smelt the horrible order from the stink bomb? There are two important questions:

1. Am I morally responsible for every person I harm by my stink bomb that I didn't intend to harm?

2. Is it immoral to use a target inwhich you realize innocent people will be present, even if your intent is not to direct harm towards them?


These questions are hard questions to answer for certain. But letme ask:

Alot of us drive Cars, yes? The fuel we burn in our cars become toxic fumes that damage the enivornment for one and can even be damaging to the health of civilians and citizens depending on the situtation and magnitude. So am I then being immoral for driving a car because I am harming people and other beings which I didn't intend to harm? Should I be held accountable morally speaking for all the unknown and unintended damages I have caused?

I wouldn't think so. It doesn't seem the following premise: "ANY HARM TO INNOCENT LIFE IS IMMORAL" holds as a valid premise (Therefore suggesting the answers to the above difficult questions). There seems to have to be intention.

The point is rather: Are they targeting the people? Or are they targeting something else? (Say a building? Or maybe they have no specific target?)


So you define Simple Terrorism as an act not intended to kill or harm? Well, I agree but I think we have to qualify 'intention' to include the aviodance of the act if there is even a remote possibility that life is endangered.

If that's the case, I wouldn't even consider that terrorism ... heck, that's just vandalism! hahahaha

Just because it isn't intended to result in no harm or death doesn't mean the action performed isn't capable of resulting in harm or death.


Yet you mention the following : "I think we have to qualify 'intention' to include the aviodance of the act if there is even a remote possibility that life is endangered."

This statement could go back to the car example. I could go even as far as to say that many people die every year because of car accidents/wrecks. This would present a "Remote possiblity" (Actually there is a pretty good possiblity that most everyone will be involved in a car wreck and death can be a result) that life will be endangered. So should we stop driving cars? Should everyone get off their lazy butts and walk/run/bike everywhere? :D

According to your statement above I would generate a premise like the following: "An action should not be performed if the result has even a remote possibilty of resulting in life endangerment"

You might object and say "This statement only applies to terrorism!!" But I would implore you then to explain why this statement should only be applied to terrorism and by what distinction do you place terrrorism and other actions into two categories judged by seperate premises.


Well, it's good that you consider Complex Terrorism immoral. Does Islam say that is OK?

I'm guessing ... NO.

Correct, Complex terrorism isn't supported by Islam. Intentional killing of innocence is forbidden.


The problem is, the world is seeing too many Islamic extremists, and it's giving the true Muslims a terrible rep.

True, and that is one reason why I go around the web attempting to state truths where I find falsehood being stated. (i.e. Striving in the Cause of Allah). For me what I do here is Jihad, which might strike some people as odd because of the connatation they associate with this word.

I'm afraid that the only way to combat ignorance and generalizations of Islam is to get out there and present information. There are alot of good Muslims, but why would the News even consider putting such things in their programs. They are going to go for what people want to see : Death,drugs,sexual offenses,criminals captured,war details, etc. The stories that catch people's attention.

peace
 
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farside

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What are vesicovaginal fistulas?

Because of the practice of early marriage in Nigeria, when young girls get pregnant and are ready to deliver, their pelvis is so small they can't deliver the baby. The baby gets stuck in the birth canal and dies. The baby's head wears a hole between the birth canal and the bladder or rectum. So, when the dead baby is eventually delivered, the girl is left with a dead child and she is draining urine and/or stool continuously. She develops sores on her skin and smells horribly from the constant flow of urine and stool on her clothes. The condition is called vesicovaginal fistula or VVF.

Source -- http://www.camp-of-the-woods.org/ardill/VVF.htm

Question of the Day :confused: -- Was Muhammad a good role model for future generations when he married a six year girl?


Kind Regards
Farside :)
 
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Green Man

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Well I can't really speak for the people's intentions (For any of the events labeled Terrorism) who performed the events. But it certainly is possible that their attacks were not intended to kill anyone. If their actions did result in the loss or injury of life it would be collateral damage under the circumstance that it wasn't intended. If the Terrorists would have been perfectly happy with an vacant target (Without innocent people) and it wasn't there intention to kill them, it would simple terrorism (Even if they realize people will be there. Although I would say that a vacant target should be perferred, but even in Offical "Wars" civilians are killed due to collateral damage, and of course the military knows they are there, but the war rages on).

I find it sickening and abhorrent to see anyone defending terrorists like this.
 
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stone

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swanlake said:
Everyone has an opinion about religion, it is based on their understanding, their interpretation and their own level of faith and conviction. Each person can only do as much as they are capable of. Imposing one's beliefs on another does not make sense and it is not Islamic either. Judging another's faith and how they practice it is also not Islamic.


Is it true that christianity is illegal in Saudi Arabia? Is Saudi Arabia of the Islam faith?
 
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humblemuslim

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I find it sickening and abhorrent to see anyone defending terrorists like this.

What are you talking about. I believe I am merely leaving all options open. If you have a strong reason why what I stated is false, bring it forth. Don't accuse me of something based on morally irrelavent critera.

The only sick thing is your accusations and total ignorance of the subject of terrorism.

If you had an ounce of understanding you would notice my comments first off are all in general and secondly no where have I supported terrorism. I merely stated two conclusions that I came to:

Simple terrorism is morally permissible if induced by an injustice
Complex terrorism is never morally permissible


Don't come here with worthless arogant comments.

Peace!
 
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humblemuslim

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Because of the practice of early marriage in Nigeria, when young girls get pregnant and are ready to deliver, their pelvis is so small they can't deliver the baby. The baby gets stuck in the birth canal and dies. The baby's head wears a hole between the birth canal and the bladder or rectum. So, when the dead baby is eventually delivered, the girl is left with a dead child and she is draining urine and/or stool continuously. She develops sores on her skin and smells horribly from the constant flow of urine and stool on her clothes. The condition is called vesicovaginal fistula or VVF.

Source -- http://www.camp-of-the-woods.org/ardill/VVF.htm

Question of the Day :confused: -- Was Muhammad a good role model for future generations when he married a six year girl?

He only married one person with an age which you personally find to be appauling. And the reason that it was done was offered although I'm sure it has already been rejected as all such accusers of Muhammad will stick to the most sick and twisted story they can possibly imagine simply for their own vain purpose.

Also I don't think people should mimic everything the prophet did. People must us some reason in their applications and ask themselves why he did what he did. Different times call for different measures. To merely mimic the same measures in different times mindlessly is not very intelligent. Anyways I repeat : The woman must give the consent to get married, otherwise if marriage is forced IT IS DONE SO WRONGFULLY.

Peace
 
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