Islam

[Electra]

If what the unislamic sites wrote about Islam were true, there wouldnt have been billion muslims. It just doesnt make sense.

This is a very faulty Logic - just because a lot of people believe or follow something, it certanly does not make it true.
This goes for every religion, as already stated.

Many people followed Hitler, but that does not mean that they were all automatically right in their beliefs just because they were great in numbers.

Majority has the might, but minority is always right

 

[ghazirizvi]

Theoretically, you're right. Practically however, some women are pressurized into wearing it from community and parents. I know a few young women who have migrated here from countries such as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and no longer wear the Hijab, since they don't have the pressure any more. Some of them leave home with the hijab on and take it off later. Still others keep the hijab on, but lead a contradictory lifestyle. Such as drinking, smoking or dancing in nightclubs. There is a certain extent of pressure for some.

Maybe. All I gave you was Islam's take on the subject. And I just want you to know that there are MANY communities who take the "Islamic Take", it does exist (many people tend to believe that Islam is a theoretical religion, not practical).

 

[John812]

Please Exhibit your vase knowledge of Islam Oh wise one using the Qur'an to back you currently baseless claims!

I'm awaiting a unique response, not one that was copy/pasted off some website. If your knowledge is so extensive you should have no problem sharing a few points in support of your view. And please don't be shy with your use of the Qur'an, quote the verses which you feel best support your claims.

peace!

Koran 9:3-5

And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.

But the treaties are not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.

But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.


Koran 9:29

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.


Koran 9:41

Go ye forth, (whether equipped) lightly or heavily, and strive and struggle, with your goods and your persons, in the cause of Allah. That is best for you, if ye (but) knew.


Koran 4:74

Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).

 

[noormaan]

9:3-5
9:41
9:3-5
this from same surah At-Tawbah its
was revealed to the Prophet in a situation when the pagans were at war with the newly organized Muslim Ummah (nation); and the Muslims were fighting them for survival. One of the issues dealt with in this verse is how to treat those who break existing treaties and the Muslims, specifically, are asked to fight those who break treaties, until they were thoroughly routed or they repented and agreed to follow the conditions imposed on them, which will ultimately be for the good of all


"To those against whom war is made, permission is given [to fight], because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid;- [They are] those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right,- [for no cause] except that they say, "our Lord is Allah”. Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his [cause];- for verily Allah is Full of strength, Exalted in might, [Able to enforce His will]." quran 22:39-41)​

"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter…"quran 2:190-191)
​

 

[maccoy77]

Please Exhibit your vase knowledge of Islam Oh wise one using the Qur'an to back you currently baseless claims!

I'm awaiting a unique response, not one that was copy/pasted off some website. If your knowledge is so extensive you should have no problem sharing a few points in support of your view. And please don't be shy with your use of the Qur'an, quote the verses which you feel best support your claims.


peace!

The whole idea is Islam dosen't make sense. What claims you want ?? Treatment of Non-Musilms ? I use my God-Given brain to think wisely and read the quran with understanding, in the end the whole concept dosen't make sense. Musilms live a life in a climate of fear. They don't fear or love God, they fear Hell. They fear that God might throw them to Hell-Fire. They don't even dare to question the quran cos of fear. FEAR FOR HELL-FIRE often blinds the Intelligence.

Another factor is Society. When a muslim questions the quran, he is labeled as a kafir or infidel on the spot. In this way many Muslims i repeat many muslims who knew that the whole concept dosen't make sense at all but yet still follow some regulated principles due to their fear of a society backlash.

 

[ghazirizvi]

The whole idea is Islam dosen't make sense. What claims you want ?? Treatment of Non-Musilms ? I use my God-Given brain to think wisely and read the quran with understanding, in the end the whole concept dosen't make sense. Musilms live a life in a climate of fear. They don't fear or love God, they fear Hell. They fear that God might throw them to Hell-Fire. They don't even dare to question the quran cos of fear. FEAR FOR HELL-FIRE often blinds the Intelligence.

Another factor is Society. When a muslim questions the quran, he is labeled as a kafir or infidel on the spot. In this way many Muslims i repeat many muslims who knew that the whole concept dosen't make sense at all but yet still follow some regulated principles due to their fear of a society backlash.

Thats a sad and baseless claim. I dont know what type of problem you have with Islam, but you dont seem to know what you are talking about; niether Islam nor Muslims.

 

[NOTW]

Muslims face hostility; left right and center. yet they are called hostile. Muslims are butchered; yet are are called the butchers. Muslims are terrorised; yet they are called terrorists.

Could you please show me an example where Muslims face hostility, yet are called hostile, or are terrorised, yet are called terrorists...

 

[humblemuslim]

Koran 9:3-5

And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.

But the treaties are not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.

But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

009.003
SHAKIR: And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve.

009.004
SHAKIR: Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).

009.005
SHAKIR: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.


If you read the context above it is clear that muslims can't fight the pagans unless the following two conditions are met:

1. The sacred months have passed

2. The terms that the two sides agreed on have expired. (Which would mean War has been redeclared). And notice that the ending is dependant upon them (The Pagans). So in essence this is saying "Don't fight during the sacred months and don't fight unless they redeclare war" (i.e. Defensive Warfare)

While we are at it why don't we read the rest of the context:

009.006
SHAKIR: And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know.

009.007
SHAKIR: How can there be an agreement for the idolaters with Allah and with His Messenger; except those with whom you made an agreement at the Sacred Mosque? So as long as they are true to you, be true to them; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).

009.008
SHAKIR: How (can it be)! while if they prevail against you, they would not pay regard in your case to ties of relationship, nor those of covenant; they please you with their mouths while their hearts do not consent; and most of them are transgressors.

009.009
SHAKIR: They have taken a small price for the communications of Allah, so they turn away from His way; surely evil is it that they do.

009.010
SHAKIR: They do not pay regard to ties of relationship nor those of covenant in the case of a believer; and these are they who go beyond the limits.

009.011
SHAKIR: But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know.

009.012
SHAKIR: And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief-- surely their oaths are nothing-- so that they may desist.

009.013
SHAKIR: What! will you not fight a people who broke their oaths and aimed at the expulsion of the Messenger, and they attacked you first; do you fear them? But Allah is most deserving that you should fear Him, if you are believers.

009.014
SHAKIR: Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.


Does this support the inital claim made by maccoy77? I say definitely not! This is obviously an endorsement for defensive warfare/response and the conditions under which it is allowed.

Now before there is a misunderstanding. When I say a defensive response I mean the first attack or intial declaration of war is posed by the enemy. Once war is declared by the enemy, muslims can OFFENSIVELY attack them during the war. It isn't like "Oh we are going to sit here and only defend ourselves and let them continue to attack us". There is a difference. The main point: Muslims are not to START the war(s).

Koran 9:29

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

This is a continuation of the same Message above. Defensive response, not offensive.

Koran 9:41

Go ye forth, (whether equipped) lightly or heavily, and strive and struggle, with your goods and your persons, in the cause of Allah. That is best for you, if ye (but) knew.

009.038
SHAKIR: O you who believe! What (excuse) have you that when it is said to you: Go forth in Allah's way, you should incline heavily to earth; are you contented with this world's life instead of the hereafter? But the provision of this world's life compared with the hereafter is but little.

009.039
SHAKIR: If you do not go forth, He will chastise you with a painful chastisement and bring in your place a people other than you, and you will do Him no harm; and Allah has power over all things.

009.040
SHAKIR: If you will not aid him, Allah certainly aided him when those who disbelieved expelled him, he being the second of the two, when they were both in the cave, when he said to his companion: Grieve not, surely Allah is with us. So Allah sent down His tranquillity upon him and strengthened him with hosts which you did not see, and made lowest the word of those who disbelieved; and the word of Allah, that is the highest; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

009.041
SHAKIR: Go forth light and heavy, and strive hard in Allah's way with your property and your persons; this is better for you, if you know.


This verse has a dual interpertaion (I think both apply). First off it calls for muslims to support other muslims in the cause of God on the field of combat when a war is started (Initial enemy offensive) or is going on. Also it calls for muslims to use their property and wealth to support God's cause (Both during times of war and not). Maybe build a Mosque, etc.

Koran 4:74

Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).

This verse ties right into the verses above. I don't think further repeatition is needed in my response.



So far I have seen nothing in support of maccoy77's original claim. If you have comments on what I've stated or have more to offer, please do so.


peace

 

[humblemuslim]

The whole idea is Islam dosen't make sense. What claims you want ?? Treatment of Non-Musilms ? I use my God-Given brain to think wisely and read the quran with understanding, in the end the whole concept dosen't make sense. Musilms live a life in a climate of fear. They don't fear or love God, they fear Hell. They fear that God might throw them to Hell-Fire. They don't even dare to question the quran cos of fear. FEAR FOR HELL-FIRE often blinds the Intelligence.

Another factor is Society. When a muslim questions the quran, he is labeled as a kafir or infidel on the spot. In this way many Muslims i repeat many muslims who knew that the whole concept dosen't make sense at all but yet still follow some regulated principles due to their fear of a society backlash.

I notice a weakness in your position: You didn't quote any Qur'an to support your claims. Plus much of what you said has nothing to do with your original comment that I challenged.


If you have worthwhile and honest claims to make, please be my guest. But if all you have is raging passion against Islam and opinions then I suggest you stop lying

If however you do have support from the Qur'an to your claims, present and support yourself properly.

peace!

 

[maccoy77]

I notice a weakness in your position: You didn't quote any Qur'an to support your claims. Plus much of what you said has nothing to do with your original comment that I challenged.


If you have worthwhile and honest claims to make, please be my guest. But if all you have is raging passion against Islam and opinions then I suggest you stop lying

If however you do have support from the Qur'an to your claims, present and support yourself properly.

peace!

Why must i Lie ? Its you are the one being fooled by a propaganda machine.(ie.Islam)

There are many many quotations from the quran which made no sense. It made me sick. Which want you want me to choose ?

Allah curses the hypocrites, the diseased hearts; wherever they are found they will be seized and slain mercilessly…33:60-61

This is not God made, Its clear cut Man-made.

Muhammad forced his followers to leave their families (8:72) and gathered them in Yathrib. He said: “And those who believed but did not leave their homes, ye have no duty to protect them till they leave their homes”. He warned those who did not follow him, leaving behind their families, will be cursed by Allah and “their habitation will be hell”(4:97).

Look at the verses. Is This Allah(God) say all these ??


"Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you”? (Q.2:216). Is really fighting good for us? In another place he says: “Unless ye go forth, He (Allah) will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place”? (Q.9:39).

These are not the teachings of a loving God.

THE HOLY QURAN IS A CLEAR MAN-MADE IDEOLGY

One of the cardinal beliefs of the Muslims is this: The Quran is the only Religious Book that was not written by any human, and that all of its messages had come down to Muhammad in Allah’s own words.
My research into the Quran proves that the above claim is false. Here is what its verse 16:51 says, and what I have understood from it.

“Allah has said: “Take not (for worship) two gods: for He is just One Allah: then fear Me (and Me alone).””

If we need a specific verse from the Quran that irrefutably proves that it also contains Muhammad’s words and statements, this is it!

Not only the first three words and the construction of the statement prove that the speaker of the statement was Muhammad; even the nuances of the Arabic grammar that govern the use of punctuation marks make it absolutely clear that it was Muhammad, and not Allah, who spoke those words of the verse.


Quran 9:5 says: “But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them” it is not talking about the people of Book such as Christians and Jews but of pagans who associate partners with God.

I don’t know how one can worship a god who says kill those who ascribe partners to him. So what? Why this god is so jealous, petty and paranoid? If there are no other gods but him why is he so desperate to the degree that he orders his prophet to murder those who think he has partners?

Look at what the Bhagavad-Gita is saying about setting up partners with God.

As soon as one desires to worship some demigod, I make his faith steady so that he can devote himself to that particular deity.” (Bhagavad-Gita, 7:21).

The quranic statements don't make sense at all.

Thats it for now. There are many others, the very common ones. What i picked is just minor un-common verses.

THE REAL FACTS AND FIGURES

1.Muslims are told to dismiss any criticism of Islam as coming from Satan and they often avoid reading critical views about their Faith. This is what happening to you.

2. Muslims are instilled with the fear of leaving Islam. This fear comes in two forms. One is the fear of Hell and of eternal punishment and the other is the fear of being caught and put to death by fellow Muslims, including their best friends and family.

3.Muslims are discouraged to take friends from amongst the unbelievers even if these unbelievers are their kin. 3:28 They are told the unbelievers are najis (filthy) 9:28 and that the believers should not associate with them.

Compare the above statement with the bhagavad-gita,

He is a perfect yogi who, by comparison to his own self, sees the true equality of all beings, in both their happiness and their distress, O Arjuna!” (Bhagavad-Gita, 6:32).

LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE YOURSELF. ITS VERY CLEAR.

The quranic statements made me sick. Simple as that.


Simple Idea. When say a man who is a free-thinker normally sees all man equal, than when he starts to read the quran and becomes a muslim, he divides people naming them people of the book, pagans, infidels, kafir and so on.

This same statement of another man, say another freethinker who sees all human-beings as equal but when he starts to read the Bhagavad-Gita he Sees ALL Living Being as Equal and treats every-living being with respect.

I can pray to a Hindu God for your well-being. I can pray to Krishna that you have a good health, but can you pray to Allah for my well-being ? Can you pray to Allah for my good health ??? Health of a Pagan/Infidel/kafir/unclean soul like me.


The above statements is enough to judge Islam and Hindusim. I rest my case.

 

[Arthra]

Maccoy,

In my Faith we regard all the major religions as being divine in origin.

So I don't think you can so easily dismiss Islam as man-made.

In history men have influenced Islam and tried to distort it to fit their own petty objectives.

And your statement by itself doesn't in mind accomplish what you say it does:

My research into the Quran proves that the above claim is false. Here is what its verse 16:51 says, and what I have understood from it.

“Allah has said: “Take not (for worship) two gods: for He is just One Allah: then fear Me (and Me alone).”

If we need a specific verse from the Quran that irrefutably proves that it also contains Muhammad’s words and statements, this is it!

___________________

This is not any "proof" that it is man derived... Not having any gods before Me is also found in the Torah. From the Gita:

"Ever gloriying Me, always striving with self control, remaining firm in their vows, bowing before Me, they worship Me with love and unwavering steadiness"

- Bhagavad Gita 9:14

So who is worshipping God and submitting themselves to His Will? All believers... and those who submit are also Moslems and all believers.

I think what would be good is that there be more inter-faith gatherings so people can understand each other better and this will reduce tensions between religions. Very much in this way the Emperor Akbar encouraged his subjects to talk with each other and respect each other:

"Almost as notable was his promulgation of a new religion, the Dini-Ilahi (Divine Faith), a blend of Islam, Brahmanism, Christianity, and Zoroastrianism. Although this attempt failed, Akbar surrounded himself with learned men of all faiths and, although illiterate himself, made his court a center of arts and letters."

- Art

 

[maccoy77]

Maccoy,

In my Faith we regard all the major religions as being divine in origin.

So I don't think you can so easily dismiss Islam as man-made.

Muslim belief that there was a war(not too sure about this) and the original copies of the quran was lost, than those mullahs who remembered wrote it down again. It could be while writing down, hugly corrupted verses and man-made ideolgies came up during this time.

Islam could have been a peaceful religion with the prophet a saintly person. It could have been heavily corrupted later on. There are many ideas on this issue.

A few possiblites:

1. Islam was a Peaceful Religion with a Saintly Prophet, than Was corrupted heavily and made as if Islam is the only salvation to God.

2. Islam could have been created by a man to gain political power and financial gain, inorder to do these he invented God and instill fear in the people. (Those days people beliefs in God is so strong)

Lets look at no.2, i can show some proof on why islam was man made.

The Prophet Muhammad had a adopted son known as Zaid. Muhammad had a crush on his adopted son's beautiful wife Zainab. In order to marry adopted son Zaid’s wife, Muhammad faced two crucial problems. First, the idea of marrying a daughter-in-law caused hue and cry in the society. Second, He already had four wives and making Zainab will make her the fifth wife, it will go against a Quranic teaching that permits a Muslim to own only four wives.

So what happen after that ? Verse 33.37 was summoned allowing Muhammad to marry his adopted son’s wife, verse 33.40 ensured Muhammad cannot be an adopted son’s father and verse 33.50 came down to make an exception for Muhammad to stockpile more than four wives.

So the question is how can a man marry a adopted son's wife ?? its like a father marrying a son's wife. I draw a conclusion, Will God say this kind of verses ??? So Muhammad succeded in Marrying his adopted Son's wife making it his fifth wife. All he claim was, Allah told him so.



Thanks May God bless Everyone regardless of Race or Religions.

 

[rahma]

Muslim belief that there was a war(not too sure about this) and the original copies of the quran was lost, than those mullahs who remembered wrote it down again. It could be while writing down, hugly corrupted verses and man-made ideolgies came up during this time.

Ah no, we don't believe that. The Qur'an was memorized by the sahabi (companions of the prophet), and as muslims began to disperse and leave arabia, the caliph Umar (ra) ordered that the Qur'an be written down so that it did not get corrupted as Muslims spread out.

Also, no mullahs among the sahabi.

And just a few more comments

The Prophet Muhammad had a adopted son known as Zaid. Muhammad had a crush on his adopted son's beautiful wife Zainab.

Ah no. This situation was set up by Allah (swt) to show one very crucial thing - that an adopted son is the son of his father, not of his adopted father. An adopted child should know his heratige, and be proud of it.

I also look at this in the modern context, when we have so many genetic diseases to worry about. If a child doesn't know his birth parents, he won't know what genetic and family diseases he will have to worry about.

He already had four wives and making Zainab will make her the fifth wife, it will go against a Quranic teaching that permits a Muslim to own only four wives.

The Qur'anic verse limiting men to 4 wives came after the Prophet (saws) had married all of his wives.

 

[maccoy77]

Ah no, we don't believe that. The Qur'an was memorized by the sahabi (companions of the prophet), and as muslims began to disperse and leave arabia, the caliph Umar (ra) ordered that the Qur'an be written down so that it did not get corrupted as Muslims spread out.

Also, no mullahs among the sahabi.

Ok if The Qur'an was memorized by the sahabi (companions of the prophet), than where was the Original Quran, where was the original verses recieved by the prophet ??

Ah no. This situation was set up by Allah (swt) to show one very crucial thing - that an adopted son is the son of his father, not of his adopted father. An adopted child should know his heratige, and be proud of it.

I also look at this in the modern context, when we have so many genetic diseases to worry about. If a child doesn't know his birth parents, he won't know what genetic and family diseases he will have to worry about.

So you say this situation was set up by Allah, how would you know that ?? Did the prophet said that ? whats wrong in adopting a child who lost his parents ??

You said:
""If a child doesn't know his birth parents, he won't know what genetic and family diseases he will have to worry about""

What are you saying ??? what disease to worry ???

Anyway The reality is Muhammad was interested in his own's adopted son's wife and he came up with such verses so that he can marry her. ITS VERY CLEAR. Muhammad claim it is Allah's will, and now you reply this ""This situation was set up by Allah (swt)""

The Qur'anic verse limiting men to 4 wives came after the Prophet (saws) had married all of his wives.

So Prophet can marry more than 4 wives but his followers can't . A very good leader indeed. He sets a good example.

Anyway how did you know the quranic verse limiting 4 wives came after Prophet had married all his wives ? Show proof, Show quotation that the verse actually came after.

 

[rahma]

Ok if The Qur'an was memorized by the sahabi (companions of the prophet), than where was the Original Quran, where was the original verses recieved by the prophet ??

The Qur'an was revealed orally. It wasn't a book thrown down by Allah (swt). The original Qur'an was in the minds and hearts of the Prophet and his companions. After the Prophet died, and some companions began to die off, the caliph Umar (ra) sought to preserve the Qur'an in written form.

So you say this situation was set up by Allah, how would you know that ??

Because God sets up all situations.

whats wrong in adopting a child who lost his parents ??

Nothing is wrong with taking in the orphans and being guardians to them.

The Prophet (saws) is reported to have said " 'I and the person who looks after an orphan and provides for him, will be in Paradise like this,' putting his index and middle fingers together." Sahih Al-Bukhari 8, 34

We just do not agree with a child being taken in and the parents making him their child. A child is always the child of his birth parents.

You said:
""If a child doesn't know his birth parents, he won't know what genetic and family diseases he will have to worry about""

What are you saying ??? what disease to worry ???

You've never been asked your family medical history when you go to the drs? For example, my mother and my grandmother, and my aunt, have all had a very rare disease that affects their reproductive organs. Because I know who my parents are, the drs know to look for this, and have been looking for it since I was 16. If I ever were to get this disease, they'll catch it early, and hopefully I won't have to have my uterous removed.

If I was adopted and didn't know my parents, the drs wouldn't know to look for that.

Anyway The reality is Muhammad was interested in his own's adopted son's wife and he came up with such verses so that he can marry her. ITS VERY CLEAR. Muhammad claim it is Allah's will, and now you reply this ""This situation was set up by Allah (swt)""

Everything in life is set up by Allah (swt).

So Prophet can marry more than 4 wives but his followers can't . A very good leader indeed. He sets a good example.

The Prophet was a rasul and a nabi. His followers aren't rasul and nabis. However, each of the Prophet's marriages set an example for believers to follow. Each was important for how we as muslims today strive to have our marriages.

Anyway how did you know the quranic verse limiting 4 wives came after Prophet had married all his wives ? Show proof, Show quotation that the verse actually came after.

Scholars know when every verse of the Qur'an was revealed. We know that at the time this ayah was revealed

{If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; (Al-An`am 6: 3)

that this ayah was also revealed:

{O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; ...}* (Al-Ahzab 33: 50)

So at the same time the verse limiting the number of wives to 4 was revealed, the verse allowing the Prophet (saws) to keep his wives was revealed.

 

[maccoy77]

The Qur'an was revealed orally. It wasn't a book thrown down by Allah (swt). The original Qur'an was in the minds and hearts of the Prophet and his companions. After the Prophet died, and some companions began to die off, the caliph Umar (ra) sought to preserve the Qur'an in written form.

Yeah after the Prophet died some companions begun to distort it. Anyway How did you know that the quran was revealed by Allah ?? Any Proof ?? One day a man will come out from a cave and say i have revealed messages from Allah. Will you belief him ??

Anyway was Prophet Muhammad a Wise man ?? Please quote some verses to show Muhammad was wise and humble man, i would love to see it

Because God sets up all situations.

There you go again, Can't answer my question than simply say Its God's set up.

I can also say, by God's will The Jews defeated the Musilms during the 6day War. By God's will Israel is unshaken eventhru its surrounded by islamic nations
.

Nothing is wrong with taking in the orphans and being guardians to them.

The Prophet (saws) is reported to have said " 'I and the person who looks after an orphan and provides for him, will be in Paradise like this,' putting his index and middle fingers together." Sahih Al-Bukhari 8, 34

We just do not agree with a child being taken in and the parents making him their child. A child is always the child of his birth parents.

Isn't it making him your child better than thinking that child as just a mere Guardian ?? what are you talking man ? This "making it as your Child 'is just a mindset change thats all, it dosen't make the child your real father. Its Common-sense, Everyone knows this. I can't belief that You need a Prophet to tell You ??

You've never been asked your family medical history when you go to the drs? For example, my mother and my grandmother, and my aunt, have all had a very rare disease that affects their reproductive organs. Because I know who my parents are, the drs know to look for this, and have been looking for it since I was 16. If I ever were to get this disease, they'll catch it early, and hopefully I won't have to have my uterous removed.
If I was adopted and didn't know my parents, the drs wouldn't know to look for that.

How many Adopted Children have Rare Disease ??? Or Infact how many Childrean among the billions today have Rare diease ??

Your Answer is totaly Baseless.

Everything in life is set up by Allah (swt).

When Muslims can't answer they simply push it to Allah. "Oh its all Allah's will"

The Prophet was a rasul and a nabi. His followers aren't rasul and nabis. However, each of the Prophet's marriages set an example for believers to follow. Each was important for how we as muslims today strive to have our marriages.

Yeah he married a 6 Year old BabyGirl by the name of Aisha. So everyone should follow his example and marry Children.

Scholars know when every verse of the Qur'an was revealed. We know that at the time this ayah was revealed

{If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; (Al-An`am 6: 3)

that this ayah was also revealed:

{O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; ...}* (Al-Ahzab 33: 50)

So at the same time the verse limiting the number of wives to 4 was revealed, the verse allowing the Prophet (saws) to keep his wives was revealed.

I don't Understand you, First you say the Limiting of 4 wife verse came after the Prophet have married his 5th Wife. Now you are saying Both arrived at the same time.

Anyway as i told you in my earlier post. The Prophet was interested in his adopted son's wife, inorder to marry her, he made up such verses to allow him to marry his adopted son's wife which was consider inmoral.

So now you can adopt a son, when that son gets married and have a beautiful wife, you can still marry your adopted son's wife. This Immoral idelogy is not done by any tom,dick or harry its done by the Prophet of Islam himself.

Truly the Prophet is a Good,Humble and Noble Man here's what he did.

He married 6yr old Aisha.
He married is own adopted son's wife.

So far two wives

In total how many wives he had ???

 

[rahma]

Yeah after the Prophet died some companions begun to distort it. Anyway How did you know that the quran was revealed by Allah ?? Any Proof ?? One day a man will come out from a cave and say i have revealed messages from Allah. Will you belief him ??

There were several thousands of companions who had memorized the entire Qur'an. When Umar (ra) saw that as people moved on, it might be distored, he had everything written down and preserved as it had been revealed.

And, what proof do I need that it comes from Allah (swt)? It's faith, just as you have faith that any of your sacred texts came from whatever diety you profess allegance to.

Anyway was Prophet Muhammad a Wise man ?? Please quote some verses to show Muhammad was wise and humble man, i would love to see it

Why do you need a verse for that? We know that from his earlies biographers. Sometimes I think I know the Prophet better than I know myself.

There you go again, Can't answer my question than simply say Its God's set up.

What was your question? You were ranting and raving, and had no question.

I can also say, by God's will The Jews defeated the Musilms during the 6day War. By God's will Israel is unshaken eventhru its surrounded by islamic nations
.

Nothing happens without God's will.

Isn't it making him your child better than thinking that child as just a mere Guardian ?? what are you talking man ? This "making it as your Child 'is just a mindset change thats all, it dosen't make the child your real father. Its Common-sense, Everyone knows this. I can't belief that You need a Prophet to tell You ??

No, it is not better to make a child who is not yours your child. A child is a child only of his parents, and no one else.

How many Adopted Children have Rare Disease ??? Or Infact how many Childrean among the billions today have Rare diease ??

Everyone has a family medical history. Everyone has a history of cancer to be aware of, of high blood pressure, of heart attacks, of numerous diseases.

Your Answer is totaly Baseless.

I gave you my own personal experience and you tell me that is baseless? Riiight

When Muslims can't answer they simply push it to Allah. "Oh its all Allah's will"

What was your question again? You had no question. I am simply stating my paradigm, my world view. Nothing happens in this world without God willing it to be so, and everything happens for a reason.

Yeah he married a 6 Year old BabyGirl by the name of Aisha. So everyone should follow his example and marry Children.

Aisha (ra) was not a baby. She was a young woman when the marriage was consumated. And, she is one of the best examples we have of female leadership within the muslim community. I love her example, and strive to follow it in my own marriage and in my own life.

I don't Understand you, First you say the Limiting of 4 wife verse came after the Prophet have married his 5th Wife. Now you are saying Both arrived at the same time.

One came after another. He cannot reveal two verses at the exact same time. The one limiting came and then the one pertaining to the Prophet (saws).

Anyway as i told you in my earlier post. The Prophet was interested in his adopted son's wife, inorder to marry her, he made up such verses to allow him to marry his adopted son's wife which was consider inmoral.

See, no muslim will ever believe that the Prophet (saws) made up verses. We know our prophet and we know that is not in his character.

So now you can adopt a son, when that son gets married and have a beautiful wife, you can still marry your adopted son's wife. This Immoral idelogy is not done by any tom,dick or harry its done by the Prophet of Islam himself.

No, we know that we are not to adopt children, and that any children we care for are not like our own children.

In total how many wives he had ???

The fact that hte Prophet (saws) had multiple wives doesn't bother me as a muslim. If it bothers you, then tough cookies for you.

 

[maccoy77]

There were several thousands of companions who had memorized the entire Qur'an. When Umar (ra) saw that as people moved on, it might be distored, he had everything written down and preserved as it had been revealed.

And, what proof do I need that it comes from Allah (swt)? It's faith, just as you have faith that any of your sacred texts came from whatever diety you profess allegance to..

As i said how would you know if its Preserved? What if its corrupted ?? I have clearly showed you one solid proof. About Muhammad Interest in his own adopted son's Wife, Later Marrying her by adding verses in the Quran to make him marry her.

Why do you need a verse for that? We know that from his earlies biographers. Sometimes I think I know the Prophet better than I know myself.

I know the Prophet better than you. Because i am a Ex-Muslim. Sorry to say that, but i have to say it.

What was your question? You were ranting and raving, and had no question.

The Question was Muhammad's Interest in his own's adopted son's wife and later marrying her. You say its Allah's will. All you said was Allah's will nothingelse.

Nothing happens without God's will.

There you go again.

No, it is not better to make a child who is not yours your child. A child is a child only of his parents, and no one else.

Use your Head a little and think. When a Childless Couple wants to have a child on their own can they adopt a Child with no parents ?? There are so many Orphans around the world, why is that your Religion dis-approve the adoption factor. Just because Muhammad say so.

ITS VERY CLEAR. Muhammad was interested in his Adopted Son's wife and inorder to marry her, he came up with his own verses.

Question: How can a man like Muhammad marry another person's wife ??????

Everyone has a family medical history. Everyone has a history of cancer to be aware of, of high blood pressure, of heart attacks, of numerous diseases

Yeah so ? Everyone knows that. Show me a verse in your Quran which supported your above claim.

I gave you my own personal experience and you tell me that is baseless? Riiight

Baseless in the sense that how many children in the world have genetic diease ?? If its un-curable than doctors will find out from his adpoted parents if its their real child or not. Doctor will than be able to know that its due to the child's real parents.

Come on. There are many many childreans who have beem adopted. So whats the big deal.

What was your question again? You had no question. I am simply stating my paradigm, my world view. Nothing happens in this world without God willing it to be so, and everything happens for a reason.

So You have accepted that the Jews Defeat of the Arab Muslims during the 6day war is all God's will. And Its God's will that Israel should exist.

Aisha (ra) was not a baby. She was a young woman when the marriage was consumated. And, she is one of the best examples we have of female leadership within the muslim community. I love her example, and strive to follow it in my own marriage and in my own life.

I know she's not a baby, But SHE IS A CHILD . How old was she when she got married to the prophet ?? Answer this question first

One came after another. He cannot reveal two verses at the exact same time. The one limiting came and then the one pertaining to the Prophet (saws).

Than The prophet have how many wives ???

See, no muslim will ever believe that the Prophet (saws) made up verses. We know our prophet and we know that is not in his character.

I am a Muslim too. I believe that the Prophet made it up. Many of them will not question it because they fear Hell and they fear the hardline islamic society where they will be branded as kafir/infidel and so on.

No, we know that we are not to adopt children, and that any children we care for are not like our own children.

Yeah so that you would not marry your own adopted children spouses in the later stages.

The fact that hte Prophet (saws) had multiple wives doesn't bother me as a muslim. If it bothers you, then tough cookies for you.

[/QUOTE]

Please state How many wives did the prophet had ??

 

[LaSalle]

Hello All

Lets be considerate of each other's faiths - This goes out to all people of faiths including muslims. If someone disrespects your faith, leave him be, because it says more about the person (and his conviction of his faith) rather than your faith.

Yes, I think for the most part Islam is misunderstood. However, I am curious about the line you wrote above.

Instead of leaving him be, as suggested by you, how come I see people like Rushdie getting fatwas? i.e are not muslims compelled to kill him?

 

[maccoy77]

Yes, I think for the most part Islam is misunderstood. However, I am curious about the line you wrote above.

Instead of leaving him be, as suggested by you, how come I see people like Rushdie getting fatwas? i.e are not muslims compelled to kill him?

Islam is never misunderstood. Read the Al-Qu'ran with a open mind and you'll know the real islam. You are in for a surprise. Thanks to the internet nowadays many muslims are leaving islam.

God loves everyone. He's there for anyone and everyone