• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Status
Not open for further replies.

rahma

FUNdamentalist
Jan 15, 2004
6,120
496
21
between a frozen wastelan and a wast desert
Visit site
✟23,935.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
maccoy77 said:
As i said how would you know if its Preserved? What if its corrupted ?? I have clearly showed you one solid proof. About Muhammad Interest in his own adopted son's Wife, Later Marrying her by adding verses in the Quran to make him marry her.

That incident was clearly God making a point. At least it's clear to me. God guides those whom he wills.





I know the Prophet better than you. Because i am a Ex-Muslim. Sorry to say that, but i have to say it.

When you apostasized, did you get the secret book on Muhammad's life? I fail to see how being an ex anything makes you an expret. I'm an ex christian. That doens't mean I know more about Christ or Martin Luther than current lutherans.






The Question was Muhammad's Interest in his own's adopted son's wife and later marrying her. You say its Allah's will. All you said was Allah's will nothingelse.

That isn't question, it's a statement. God set up the situation to prove a point. And I will continue to say things are God's will, becasue they are all God's will.




There you go again.

By the will and grace of God, I will continue to go.





Use your Head a little and think. When a Childless Couple wants to have a child on their own can they adopt a Child with no parents ?? There are so many Orphans around the world, why is that your Religion dis-approve the adoption factor. Just because Muhammad say so.

Childless couples can be guardians of children and take them into their homes. They can just not be the actual physical parent.

ITS VERY CLEAR. Muhammad was interested in his Adopted Son's wife and inorder to marry her, he came up with his own verses.

No, it's not clear to me, sorry.

Question: How can a man like Muhammad marry another person's wife ??????

So divorced women aren't allowed to remarry now?




Yeah so ? Everyone knows that. Show me a verse in your Quran which supported your above claim.

Why? YOou don't believe in the Qur'an anyways. Medical history is medical history. Go into the drs office and see how many questions they ask you about your family's medical history.






Baseless in the sense that how many children in the world have genetic diease ?? If its un-curable than doctors will find out from his adpoted parents if its their real child or not. Doctor will than be able to know that its due to the child's real parents.

Come on. There are many many childreans who have beem adopted. So whats the big deal.

If you want to adopt, fine, adopt. However, muslims don't adopt. They have guardianship over children.







So You have accepted that the Jews Defeat of the Arab Muslims during the 6day war is all God's will. And Its God's will that Israel should exist.

No, Israel is mearly a test, as is everything else in this world. We'll see how it all turns out. Allahu Alem.






I know she's not a baby, But SHE IS A CHILD . How old was she when she got married to the prophet ?? Answer this question first

The sources vary. Some say 9, some say 14, some say 19. In any case, she was quite mature.









I am a Muslim too. I believe that the Prophet made it up. Many of them will not question it because they fear Hell and they fear the hardline islamic society where they will be branded as kafir/infidel and so on.

You're a muslim? Since when? You're Hare Krishna, as you've often stated.




Yeah so that you would not marry your own adopted children spouses in the later stages.

Whatever. I've stated my position. You being beligerant isn't going to change my position.




Please state How many wives did the prophet had ??

I know, and I do not care. Why make it an issue if I don't care?
 
  • Like
Reactions: humblemuslim
Upvote 0

humblemuslim

I am busy currently. Will be less active soon.
Mar 25, 2005
3,812
111
39
USA
✟27,028.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Allah curses the hypocrites, the diseased hearts; wherever they are found they will be seized and slain mercilessly…33:60-61

This is not God made, Its clear cut Man-made.

033.060
YUSUFALI: Truly, if the Hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who stir up sedition in the City, desist not, We shall certainly stir thee up against them: Then will they not be able to stay in it as thy neighbours for any length of time:
PICKTHAL: If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbours in it but a little while.
SHAKIR: If the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease and the agitators in the city do not desist, We shall most certainly set you over them, then they shall not be your neighbors in it but for a little while;
KHALIFA: Unless the hypocrites, and those with disease in their hearts, and the vicious liars of the city refrain (from persecuting you), we will surely grant you the upper hand, then they will be forced to leave within a short while.

033.061
YUSUFALI: They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy).

I thought your knowledge of Islam was great? :scratch: This right here exhibits quite the opposite. You took a select verse out of context and proclaim your opinion that it is man derived. God gives permission to slay hypcroties who are causing trouble. So I pose the question: Why do you have the opinion this is man-derived? :confused:



Muhammad forced his followers to leave their families (8:72) and gathered them in Yathrib. He said: “And those who believed but did not leave their homes, ye have no duty to protect them till they leave their homes”. He warned those who did not follow him, leaving behind their families, will be cursed by Allah and “their habitation will be hell”(4:97).

Look at the verses. Is This Allah(God) say all these ??


008.072
YUSUFALI: Those who believed, and adopted exile, and fought for the Faith, with their property and their persons, in the cause of Allah, as well as those who gave (them) asylum and aid,- these are (all) friends and protectors, one of another. As to those who believed but came not into exile, ye owe no duty of protection to them until they come into exile; but if they seek your aid in religion, it is your duty to help them, except against a people with whom ye have a treaty of mutual alliance. And (remember) Allah seeth all that ye do.

004.097
YUSUFALI: When angels take the souls of those who die in sin against their souls, they say: "In what (plight) Were ye?" They reply: "Weak and oppressed Were we in the earth." They say: "Was not the earth of Allah spacious enough for you to move yourselves away (From evil)?" Such men will find their abode in Hell,- What an evil refuge! -


What in God's name are you talking about? Your selective quoting of the Qur'an and lies are enough to conclude you are one to be trusted. I challenge you support what you've just stated here in full and not just rant and rave against Islam mindlessly.


"Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you”? (Q.2:216). Is really fighting good for us? In another place he says: “Unless ye go forth, He (Allah) will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place”? (Q.9:39).

These are not the teachings of a loving God.


002.216
YUSUFALI: Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.



God isn't commanding us to be Warlike peoples. This verse needs to be viewed with the rest of what the Qur'an has to say about War, that it should only be performed as a reaction to an enemy offensive.


009.038
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter.


009.039
YUSUFALI: Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things.



I see no problem with muslims being urged to strive in the cause of God. Also it present your vain opinon once again with no objective backing. I suggest you stick more to facts and stop proclaiming lies based solely on your personal opinions.


THE HOLY QURAN IS A CLEAR MAN-MADE IDEOLGY

One of the cardinal beliefs of the Muslims is this: The Quran is the only Religious Book that was not written by any human, and that all of its messages had come down to Muhammad in Allah’s own words.
My research into the Quran proves that the above claim is false. Here is what its verse 16:51 says, and what I have understood from it.

“Allah has said: “Take not (for worship) two gods: for He is just One Allah: then fear Me (and Me alone).””

If we need a specific verse from the Quran that irrefutably proves that it also contains Muhammad’s words and statements, this is it!

You once again need to explain your point further. You proclaimed, once again, something to be a fact and truth and offered very weak backing, if any at all. How is this proof that Muhammad's words and statements are in the Qur'an? :scratch:


Not only the first three words and the construction of the statement prove that the speaker of the statement was Muhammad; even the nuances of the Arabic grammar that govern the use of punctuation marks make it absolutely clear that it was Muhammad, and not Allah, who spoke those words of the verse.

It doesn't, this is an assumption on your part due to your basis against the religion and faith of Islam. In fact why don't you try reading the entire Surah, or if you have read it unbasisly as hard as this request is. When the Qur'an says "And Jesus said "blah blah blah"" it includes quotations by Jesus, would you like to rant and rave on this as well?

Quran 9:5 says: “But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them” it is not talking about the people of Book such as Christians and Jews but of pagans who associate partners with God.

I don’t know how one can worship a god who says kill those who ascribe partners to him. So what? Why this god is so jealous, petty and paranoid? If there are no other gods but him why is he so desperate to the degree that he orders his prophet to murder those who think he has partners?

This has already been explained in a past post on this thread infact...This is a permission for warfare once an intial offensive by the enemy has already happened. This isn't allowing muslims to go around starting wars left and right against pagans.

The quranic statements don't make sense at all.

This might be because you don't have the understanding nor the capacity to understand it through such a closed-mind. Look at my past post and maybe your understanding will come, yet again maybe not.


1.Muslims are told to dismiss any criticism of Islam as coming from Satan and they often avoid reading critical views about their Faith. This is what happening to you.

You were formerly a muslim eh? After even such a limited amount of posts I find this hard to believe...:eek:

Regardless, I urge and challenge you to present any Qur'an that supports this view. And I am very open to critical views on my faith, why else would I go to RELIGIOUS FORUM BOARDS. Maybe TO DISCUSS MY FAITH AND OTHER FAITHS. I infact take part in several religious forums boards and even discuss my faith and other faiths in my online journal...It seems you have mislabeled me for one, and even on a larger scale Islam.


2. Muslims are instilled with the fear of leaving Islam. This fear comes in two forms. One is the fear of Hell and of eternal punishment and the other is the fear of being caught and put to death by fellow Muslims, including their best friends and family.

Some maybe. But fear isn't what keeps me from leaving. And true believers shouldn't need fear to keep their faith. And again I challenge you to present a verse from the Qur'an asking muslims to put someone to death for leaving Islam.


3.Muslims are discouraged to take friends from amongst the unbelievers even if these unbelievers are their kin. 3:28 They are told the unbelievers are najis (filthy) 9:28 and that the believers should not associate with them.

This verse when taken in context, which you failed to do, will detest your view:

003.028
YUSUFALI: Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.


009.028
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

9:28 has nothing to do with being their friends or helpers and 3:28 clearly asks that we perfer believers over disbelievers as friends and/or helpers. There is nothing morally wrong with perference, if you feel otherwise I challenge you to bring up good solid moral arguments on grounds of your position. I have plently of friends who are not believers, but I do make perference to believers as the Qur'ans asks of muslims.



The quranic statements made me sick. Simple as that.

The only thing I find sick is your selective quoting of the Qur'an and misleading thoughts about these selective quotes you pick out and remove from the context. Simple as that.


Simple Idea. When say a man who is a free-thinker normally sees all man equal, than when he starts to read the quran and becomes a muslim, he divides people naming them people of the book, pagans, infidels, kafir and so on.

No different then distinguishing a cat from a dog or a woman from a man. Are distinctions immoral? Is this the point you're striving at? If so again I challenge you to produce for me a solid moral argument in favor of this view.



This same statement of another man, say another freethinker who sees all human-beings as equal but when he starts to read the Bhagavad-Gita he Sees ALL Living Being as Equal and treats every-living being with respect.

Here I see man-made thinking and concepts. "Treat everyone EQUAL" What is equal? I impore you to offer me a good defintion.

Also it this comment again confirms my thoughts on just how basis you are against Islam.


I can pray to a Hindu God for your well-being. I can pray to Krishna that you have a good health, but can you pray to Allah for my well-being ? Can you pray to Allah for my good health ??? Health of a Pagan/Infidel/kafir/unclean soul like me.

Of course I can, where does God tell muslims they can't Prayer for the well-being, good health, etc. of nonbelievers? It isn't a command, but it certainly is permissible. If I remember correctly there is a statment that the people in heaven will Prayer for the people in Hell to be released from Hell and allowed into Heaven



The above statements is enough to judge Islam and Hindusim. I rest my case.


Since when is this a "Hinduism vs Islam" discussion. Such a discussion, in my opinion, is idle/vain. I have no desire to sit around and insult another religion and proclaim lies as if they were facts. I do however look at what remains constant, the Scriptures of the religion, and often times will ask questions and offer what I understand from the text and see the variant understandings. However I would never sit around and stubbornly proclaim my understanding as absolute and disregard everyone else as stupid/ignorant. Yet even sometimes I have to pull the plug due to someone how is just making remarks without any contextual backing, yet even then I don't insult them, I'll just point out they have no contexual backing.

I believe you intentions are misplaced. God Willing maybe you will be able to change this.


Peace
 
Upvote 0
L

LaSalle

Guest
maccoy77 said:
Islam is never misunderstood. Read the Al-Qu'ran with a open mind and you'll know the real islam. You are in for a surprise. Thanks to the internet nowadays many muslims are leaving islam.

God loves everyone. He's there for anyone and everyone

Islam is never misunderstood? My friend, Islam is misunderstood by the very muslims that profess to belong to Islam! I'll prove it -

No religion would condone the killing of innocent people. Yet we get Imams telling their faithful to commit terrorists acts against the innocent. They are even promised a number of virgins in heaven for that deed. Are you saying that Islam really teaches that? No, right? Then alas, it has been misunderstood.

Secondly, I would appreciate it if you could clarify that question I asked about the fatwa.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Milla
Upvote 0

Bookofknowledge

Senior Veteran
Sep 8, 2004
4,913
29
✟27,821.00
Faith
Muslim
LaSalle said:
Islam is never misunderstood? My friend, Islam is misunderstood by the very muslims that profess to belong to Islam! I'll prove it -

No religion would condone the killing of innocent people. Yet we get Imams telling their faithful to commit terrorists acts against the innocent. They are even promised a number of virgins in heaven for that deed. Are you saying that Islam really teaches that? No, right? Then alas, it has been misunderstood.

Secondly, I would appreciate it if you could clarify that question I asked about the fatwa.

I like the way you said alas :)

under what events the scholars say kill the innocents? and define innocent?
 
Upvote 0
L

LaSalle

Guest
Bookofknowledge said:
I like the way you said alas :)

under what events the scholars say kill the innocents? and define innocent?

Innocent? Perhaps rather than define, I shall give you an example.

The little kid who was with her mum shopping at the World Trade Centre when terrorists crashed planed into them.

Everyone is innocent until proven guilty of a crime. Doesn't Islam believe that?
 
Upvote 0

ghazirizvi

Regular Member
Apr 17, 2005
427
4
✟588.00
Faith
Muslim
Innocent? Perhaps rather than define, I shall give you an example.

The little kid who was with her mum shopping at the World Trade Centre when terrorists crashed planed into them.

Everyone is innocent until proven guilty of a crime. Doesn't Islam believe that?

People who bombed the WTC, were distorting islam to manipulate others. No blame for the WTC can be laid on islam because there is none, it can however be laid on the "fake mullahs" with thier own agenda's. Islam is not misunderstood by muslims, Islam is distorted many times by transgressors for thier own means. I believe that is what Brother BOk was saying, no true muslim scholar would condone murder of innocents.
 
Upvote 0
L

LaSalle

Guest
ghazirizvi said:
People who bombed the WTC, were distorting islam to manipulate others. No blame for the WTC can be laid on islam because there is none, it can however be laid on the "fake mullahs" with thier own agenda's. Islam is not misunderstood by muslims, Islam is distorted many times by transgressors for thier own means. I believe that is what Brother BOk was saying, no true muslim scholar would condone murder of innocents.

AYE!! My point exactly! They fail to understand true Islam.

The distortion is due to misunderstanding. They sincerely believe that Islam would not only condone, but expect them to behave that way.

I see you guys seem to have an issue with the word 'Misunderstand'.

That is strange to me.

When one thinks of any given teaching (religious or otherwise) in an errorneous way, does that not amount to a misunderstanding?
 
Upvote 0

ghazirizvi

Regular Member
Apr 17, 2005
427
4
✟588.00
Faith
Muslim
AYE!! My point exactly! They fail to understand true Islam.

The distortion is due to misunderstanding. They sincerely believe that Islam would not only condone, but expect them to behave that way.

I see you guys seem to have an issue with the word 'Misunderstand'.

That is strange to me.

When one thinks of any given teaching (religious or otherwise) in an errorneous way, does that not amount to a misunderstanding?

LOL. There is no argument here. I guess your first post might have given a suggestion of "true muslims" not understanding thier religion. Anyways what you say is true, because I have seen it happen in Pakistan and sometimes it makes me sick. Some mullah's over there take advantages of illiterate people because these same mullah's are the only venue of information to the illiterate people.
 
Upvote 0
L

LaSalle

Guest
ghazirizvi said:
LOL. There is no argument here. I guess your first post might have given a suggestion of "true muslims" not understanding thier religion. Anyways what you say is true, because I have seen it happen in Pakistan and sometimes it makes me sick. Some mullah's over there take advantages of illiterate people because these same mullah's are the only venue of information to the illiterate people.

Great. We're gonna get along well, I see. Love your tag line, by the way.

I live in Singapore and there is religious harmony. You'll find Mosques plonked next to temples and Churches ... there are no racial enclaves, we have multi racial neighbours.

But I still have a tough time discussing religion with Muslims. Not so sure why. Perhaps I can discuss stuff with you?
 
  • Like
Reactions: humblemuslim
Upvote 0

ghazirizvi

Regular Member
Apr 17, 2005
427
4
✟588.00
Faith
Muslim
Great. We're gonna get along well, I see. Love your tag line, by the way.

I live in Singapore and there is religious harmony. You'll find Mosques plonked next to temples and Churches ... there are no racial enclaves, we have multi racial neighbours.

But I still have a tough time discussing religion with Muslims. Not so sure why. Perhaps I can discuss stuff with you?

Thnx. Inshallah we will continue to talk.

Salamauluikum
 
Upvote 0

Bookofknowledge

Senior Veteran
Sep 8, 2004
4,913
29
✟27,821.00
Faith
Muslim
LaSalle said:
Innocent? Perhaps rather than define, I shall give you an example.

The little kid who was with her mum shopping at the World Trade Centre when terrorists crashed planed into them.

Everyone is innocent until proven guilty of a crime. Doesn't Islam believe that?

In ISLAM, Any person who commits crime is proven guilty the moment they committed it... Even if no one proves them guilty of crime they are criminals and will face the punishment in this world and hereafter unless GOD forgives them.

Everyone is innocent until proven guilty of a crime :scratch: have you proven those died were terrorists or human kind?
 
Upvote 0

maccoy77

Active Member
Mar 7, 2005
133
5
✟288.00
Faith
Other Religion
rahma said:
That incident was clearly God making a point. At least it's clear to me. God guides those whom he wills.

Yeah.. God making a man marry his own adopted's son's wife. A saintly person indeed.







When you apostasized, did you get the secret book on Muhammad's life? I fail to see how being an ex anything makes you an expret. I'm an ex christian. That doens't mean I know more about Christ or Martin Luther than current lutherans.

Because of your failing to know more about Christ made you leave Christianity. Ex-Muslims are normally highly intelligent beings:wave:, are courages and most are well-verse with the Al-Quran. They truly understand it, have enough courage to remove the fear which sad to say blinds many musilms today. But i have to say its improving. do you know that 16,000 muslims are leaving Islam everyday. Heres the link, its in arabic and a islamic source. http://www.aljazeera.net/programs/shareea/articles/2000/12/12-12-6.htm (ok sad to say the article have been removed. It has been 3 years already)







That isn't question, it's a statement. God set up the situation to prove a point. And I will continue to say things are God's will, becasue they are all God's will.

Yeah Yeah; This event in Malaysia where a Musilm Man with his 5 year old boy died in a tragic way. Their car was involve in a accident. Minor injuries at first, wife calls husband(who was trap in car), husband says, he and the child is fine, than suddenly a lorry hits his car from the back, wife hears over the phone of the loud screaming of her husband and their 5 year old son, phone cuts off thereafter, what happen was due to lorry hitting the car. That car was drag very far, than exploded with flames, instantly burning the Man and his child to death. Both bodies were so severely burnt.

So is this God's will ??? Is this God's will that the 5year old boy should die in such a manner ??





By the will and grace of God, I will continue to go.

:doh:







Childless couples can be guardians of children and take them into their homes. They can just not be the actual physical parent.

Obviously they are not the physical parents. So ? I will repeat again. Prophet Muhammad use this tactic as a excuse to marry his own's adopted son's wife. By inserting a verse , and claming its God's will, Muhammad was able to marry her eventhrough it was inmoral.





So divorced women aren't allowed to remarry now?

Divorced women can Re-Marry. BUT Prophet Muhammad's adopted son's wife was NOT divorced. She belongs to his adopted Son and yet Muhammad married her. This is clear-cut stealing of other person's wife. This is very immoral.






Why? YOou don't believe in the Qur'an anyways. Medical history is medical history. Go into the drs office and see how many questions they ask you about your family's medical history.

AS i said out of 1 billion children how many have rare and incurable dieases ??? You your head and think and don't be fearful of hell. Its the Hell issue which blinds your intelligence.








If you want to adopt, fine, adopt. However, muslims don't adopt. They have guardianship over children.

What about Childless couple ?? And what's the difference between Adoption and Guardianship ? That particular Adopted Child will feel more comfortable living with parents who consider that child his/her own than parents who only consider the child as not theirs. Use your head come on think.









No, Israel is mearly a test, as is everything else in this world. We'll see how it all turns out. Allahu Alem
.

"Israel is mearly a test" spoken by who ?? God ?? Its you who are saying this. Are you God to say such things ?








The sources vary. Some say 9, some say 14, some say 19. In any case, she was quite mature.

I ask you again, How old was Aisha when she got married to prophet Muhammad ??? Don't try to hide and Don't run away. Most important don't try to devaite from this question .










You're a muslim? Since when? You're Hare Krishna, as you've often stated.

Typo error. Its supposed to be Ex-Muslim.





Whatever. I've stated my position. You being beligerant isn't going to change my position.

Ofcourse you won't change. Your fear of hell-fire, Fear of being killed, fear of being labeled as kafir/infidel and worst of creatures is the sole reason you being in islam. I have to say you are smart but your smartness is covered by fear.






I know, and I do not care. Why make it an issue if I don't care?

Again I'm asking you how many wives did Prophet Muhammad has ?? Don't try to hide and give excuses just answer my question thanks.
 
Upvote 0

maccoy77

Active Member
Mar 7, 2005
133
5
✟288.00
Faith
Other Religion
LaSalle said:
Islam is never misunderstood? My friend, Islam is misunderstood by the very muslims that profess to belong to Islam! I'll prove it -

No religion would condone the killing of innocent people. Yet we get Imams telling their faithful to commit terrorists acts against the innocent. They are even promised a number of virgins in heaven for that deed. Are you saying that Islam really teaches that? No, right? Then alas, it has been misunderstood.

Secondly, I would appreciate it if you could clarify that question I asked about the fatwa.


No religion would condone the killing of innocent people. True. BUT for the exception of Islam. The Imams/Terrorists are the people who truly follows the teachings of the Al-Qu'ran. The Word Moderate Muslims is a Myth. The greatest myth of all-time is Islam means peace. When Muslim man die they are promised virgins to have sex with. Its there in the Quran. Just imagine a heaven where on could see a mass orgy taking place. Bearded Men having sex with different, different woman forever.

Look at the verses:

Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not. (2:216)

How can fighting be good for you ??? Which religion teaches that ??

Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value). (4:74)

Those who fight are rewarded. Now you know why there are terriost and sucide bombers.

They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;- (4:89)

This verse clearly says if a person do not convert to Islam after hearing the message, he should be killed. This was spoken by God(The Creator). What a Loving God

You want more ??


Quran Surah 2: The Cow
  1. Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 6
  2. Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. 10
  3. A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 24
  4. Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 39, 90
  5. For disbelievers is a painful doom. 104
  6. For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next. 114
  7. Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire. 126
  8. The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 162
  9. They will not emerge from the Fire. 167
  10. Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom. 174
  11. How constant are they in their strife to reach the Fire! 175
  12. Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. 191
  13. War is ordained by Allah. 216
  14. Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 217
  15. Disbelievers worship false gods. They will burn forever in the Fire. 257
  16. Allah does not guide disbelievers. 264
  17. "Give us victory over the disbelieving folk." 286
You want more ??
 
Upvote 0

rahma

FUNdamentalist
Jan 15, 2004
6,120
496
21
between a frozen wastelan and a wast desert
Visit site
✟23,935.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
I'm going to chose not to continue this conversation. I don't see anything fruitful coming out of it. You're obviously don't think I'm intelligent, as I am quite strong in my faith and have Taqwa. I will not consider a conversation with someone who insults me.

I am not ashamed of my faith, of my Prophet (saws) or of my God. Anyone who has known me from my time on this board knows that. Only very rarely to I releave myself from a conversation, and that is only when I feel there is no real conversation, only angry venting and yelling.

Ta Ha 130 Bear then patiently what they say, and glorify your Lord by the praising of Him before the rising of the sun and before its setting, and during hours of the night do also glorify (Him) and during parts of the day, that you may be well pleased

Alhamdulilah, all praise be to God, Lord of all the worlds!
 
Upvote 0

humblemuslim

I am busy currently. Will be less active soon.
Mar 25, 2005
3,812
111
39
USA
✟27,028.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
What about Childless couple ?? And what's the difference between Adoption and Guardianship ? That particular Adopted Child will feel more comfortable living with parents who consider that child his/her own than parents who only consider the child as not theirs. Use your head come on think.

Adoption as is being mentioned is to accept a child as one's own and raise that child as if it were your own hiding from the child its true origins. (I believe this is an acceptable answer). Guardianship is caring for the child, but letting the child know its true origins. This doesn't mean you must treat the child any less than one of your own, but you can't hide the childs true parents.

The rest of what you said is baseless opinion, which can be proved false if you intend your statement to be exclusive. I have watched after children who are not my own, and I treat them with just as much love and kindness as I would show my own offspring. The exclusivity of your statement fails, sorry.


I ask you again, How old was Aisha when she got married to prophet Muhammad ??? Don't try to hide and Don't run away. Most important don't try to devaite from this question .

How large is the universe in cubic feet? Don't be arrogant maccoy, it gets rather distasteful after one post. The answer is not known for certain, and the answer you received shows this. Deal with the uncertainty, the age ranges from 9-19. If you feel marrying a 9 year old is wrong and immoral, it is your own sick mind pushing this. Puburty is sufficent for someone to be a responsible adult (Responsible for their soul). In today's society 18 - 21 is considered an "Adult" only because older generations have no faith in younth and treat them as less of people WHICH I BELIEVE IS ULTIMATELY MORALLY WRONG! I know 9 year olds and "Teenagers" who are more mature and responsible than so called "Adults". Don't be an agist.


Typo error. Its supposed to be Ex-Muslim.

You must mean ex-hypocrite. The so called vast knowledge you have for Islam has all been but vast and extensive. I'm still awaiting a response to what I've stated in rebuttle to you.

Again I'm asking you how many wives did Prophet Muhammad has ?? Don't try to hide and give excuses just answer my question thanks.

Here is one article that might help deter some dirty thoughts that are clouding this conversation:

Why did prophet Mohammad (pbuh) marry many wives, and who were they, their names and brief background on each one of them (may Allah bless them all).

When people hear that the prophet had many wives they conclude without much thought that the prophet was a sensuous man. However, a quick historical review of his marriages, proves otherwise.

When he was twenty-five years old he married for the first time. His wife, Khadijah, was fifteen years older than he. She remained the only wife of the prophet for the next twenty-five years, until she died (may Allah be pleased with her).

Only after her death, did the prophet marry other women. Now, it is obvious that if the prophet was after physical pleasure he did not have to wait until he was more than fifty years old to start marrying more wives. He lived in a society in which it was quite acceptable to have many wives. But the prophet remained devoted to his only wife for twenty-five years. When she died she was sixty-five years old.

His later marriages were for various reasons. Some marriages were with the view to help the women whose husbands had been killed while they were defending their faith. Others were with a view to cement relationships with devoted followers like Abu Bakr, may Allah be pleased with him. Yet others were to build bridges with various tribes who were otherwise at war with the Muslims. When the prophet became their relative through marriage, their hostilities calmed down, and much bloodshed was averted.

If you wish to read the site and alittle more of the article here it is: http://anwary-islam.com/women/prophets-wives.htm


Here is another lengthy article on the topic:

http://www.islamonline.net/askaboutislam/display.asp?hquestionID=7810



If you are just interested in the number of wives and details go here for a chart :

http://www.answering-christianity.org/wives.htm


Peace!
 
Upvote 0

maccoy77

Active Member
Mar 7, 2005
133
5
✟288.00
Faith
Other Religion
rahma said:
I'm going to chose not to continue this conversation. I don't see anything fruitful coming out of it. You're obviously don't think I'm intelligent, as I am quite strong in my faith and have Taqwa. I will not consider a conversation with someone who insults me.

I am not ashamed of my faith, of my Prophet (saws) or of my God. Anyone who has known me from my time on this board knows that. Only very rarely to I releave myself from a conversation, and that is only when I feel there is no real conversation, only angry venting and yelling.

Ta Ha 130 Bear then patiently what they say, and glorify your Lord by the praising of Him before the rising of the sun and before its setting, and during hours of the night do also glorify (Him) and during parts of the day, that you may be well pleased

Alhamdulilah, all praise be to God, Lord of all the worlds!


Ok you have offcially lost the debate anyway nice debating with you. Thanks. May god bless you.
 
Upvote 0

humblemuslim

I am busy currently. Will be less active soon.
Mar 25, 2005
3,812
111
39
USA
✟27,028.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
No religion would condone the killing of innocent people. True. BUT for the exception of Islam. The Imams/Terrorists are the people who truly follows the teachings of the Al-Qu'ran. The Word Moderate Muslims is a Myth. The greatest myth of all-time is Islam means peace. When Muslim man die they are promised virgins to have sex with. Its there in the Quran. Just imagine a heaven where on could see a mass orgy taking place. Bearded Men having sex with different, different woman forever.

Baseless opinions. Maccoy more proof less idle talk. In every post you show the weakness in your position, your lies, and you're down right sneaky quoting of the Qur'an selectively and misinterpertations of the Qur'an when the context is very clear.



Look at the verses:

Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not. (2:216)

How can fighting be good for you ??? Which religion teaches that ??


Try reading my rebuttles. I repeat once again for you:

002.216
YUSUFALI: Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

God isn't commanding us to be Warlike peoples. This verse needs to be viewed with the rest of what the Qur'an has to say about War, that it should only be performed as a reaction to an enemy offensive.

Absorb my statement this time and make your rebuttle or shut you mouth from spilling more idle talk onto the forum! :sick:



Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value). (4:74)

Those who fight are rewarded. Now you know why there are terriost and sucide bombers.

They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;- (4:89)

This verse clearly says if a person do not convert to Islam after hearing the message, he should be killed. This was spoken by God(The Creator). What a Loving God

You want more ??

These verses a parallel to the ones I rebuttled in Surah 9 that you have yet to even comment on.:doh:Try reading my posts:

REPEAT:

009.003
SHAKIR: And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve.

009.004
SHAKIR: Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).

009.005
SHAKIR: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.


If you read the context above it is clear that muslims can't fight the pagans unless the following two conditions are met:

1. The sacred months have passed

2. The terms that the two sides agreed on have expired. (Which would mean War has been redeclared). And notice that the ending is dependant upon them (The Pagans). So in essence this is saying "Don't fight during the sacred months and don't fight unless they redeclare war" (i.e. Defensive Warfare)

While we are at it why don't we read the rest of the context:

009.006
SHAKIR: And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know.

009.007
SHAKIR: How can there be an agreement for the idolaters with Allah and with His Messenger; except those with whom you made an agreement at the Sacred Mosque? So as long as they are true to you, be true to them; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).

009.008
SHAKIR: How (can it be)! while if they prevail against you, they would not pay regard in your case to ties of relationship, nor those of covenant; they please you with their mouths while their hearts do not consent; and most of them are transgressors.

009.009
SHAKIR: They have taken a small price for the communications of Allah, so they turn away from His way; surely evil is it that they do.

009.010
SHAKIR: They do not pay regard to ties of relationship nor those of covenant in the case of a believer; and these are they who go beyond the limits.

009.011
SHAKIR: But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know.

009.012
SHAKIR: And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief-- surely their oaths are nothing-- so that they may desist.

009.013
SHAKIR: What! will you not fight a people who broke their oaths and aimed at the expulsion of the Messenger, and they attacked you first; do you fear them? But Allah is most deserving that you should fear Him, if you are believers.

009.014
SHAKIR: Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.


Does this support the inital claim made by maccoy77? I say definitely not! This is obviously an endorsement for defensive warfare/response and the conditions under which it is allowed.

Now before there is a misunderstanding. When I say a defensive response I mean the first attack or intial declaration of war is posed by the enemy. Once war is declared by the enemy, muslims can OFFENSIVELY attack them during the war. It isn't like "Oh we are going to sit here and only defend ourselves and let them continue to attack us". There is a difference. The main point: Muslims are not to START the war(s).


009.038
SHAKIR: O you who believe! What (excuse) have you that when it is said to you: Go forth in Allah's way, you should incline heavily to earth; are you contented with this world's life instead of the hereafter? But the provision of this world's life compared with the hereafter is but little.

009.039
SHAKIR: If you do not go forth, He will chastise you with a painful chastisement and bring in your place a people other than you, and you will do Him no harm; and Allah has power over all things.

009.040
SHAKIR: If you will not aid him, Allah certainly aided him when those who disbelieved expelled him, he being the second of the two, when they were both in the cave, when he said to his companion: Grieve not, surely Allah is with us. So Allah sent down His tranquillity upon him and strengthened him with hosts which you did not see, and made lowest the word of those who disbelieved; and the word of Allah, that is the highest; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

009.041
SHAKIR: Go forth light and heavy, and strive hard in Allah's way with your property and your persons; this is better for you, if you know.


This verse has a dual interpertaion (I think both apply). First off it calls for muslims to support other muslims in the cause of God on the field of combat when a war is started (Initial enemy offensive) or is going on. Also it calls for muslims to use their property and wealth to support God's cause (Both during times of war and not). Maybe build a Mosque, etc.


If you have any worthwhile comments or rebuttles reveal them. Elsewise take your misinterpertations and demented selective quoting elsewhere.

Good Day! :cool:

Peace!
 
Upvote 0

humblemuslim

I am busy currently. Will be less active soon.
Mar 25, 2005
3,812
111
39
USA
✟27,028.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Ok you have offcially lost the debate anyway nice debating with you. Thanks. May god bless you.

To every person their own persective, but I believe she ultimately is the winner. Not that this is important, purely my opinion side by side with yours.

But you will find that I am much more persistent and will take you to the cleaners with your slopy posts and comments. I still await your genius rebuttles to nearly 4 of my posts I believe.

Enjoy :)

Peace!
 
Upvote 0

maccoy77

Active Member
Mar 7, 2005
133
5
✟288.00
Faith
Other Religion
humblemuslim said:
Adoption as is being mentioned is to accept a child as one's own and raise that child as if it were your own hiding from the child its true origins. (I believe this is an acceptable answer). Guardianship is caring for the child, but letting the child know its true origins. This doesn't mean you must treat the child any less than one of your own, but you can't hide the childs true parents.

The rest of what you said is baseless opinion, which can be proved false if you intend your statement to be exclusive. I have watched after children who are not my own, and I treat them with just as much love and kindness as I would show my own offspring. The exclusivity of your statement fails, sorry.


As the child grows up he/she will realise that their true parents is nowhere to be found and they are taken care off by their foster parents. The Child will than respect his/her foster parents even more for taking care of him/her all these years. Compare this to a Child at a young age who lost his/her parents find it hard to accept that he/she has no parents and is only taken care off by guardians. This is cruel indeed, tell the child that you have no parents and we are only guardian is cruel indeed. Sometimes a person needs commn sense.




How large is the universe in cubic feet? Don't be arrogant maccoy, it gets rather distasteful after one post. The answer is not known for certain, and the answer you received shows this. Deal with the uncertainty, the age ranges from 9-19. If you feel marrying a 9 year old is wrong and immoral, it is your own sick mind pushing this. Puburty is sufficent for someone to be a responsible adult (Responsible for their soul). In today's society 18 - 21 is considered an "Adult" only because older generations have no faith in younth and treat them as less of people WHICH I BELIEVE IS ULTIMATELY MORALLY WRONG! I know 9 year olds and "Teenagers" who are more mature and responsible than so called "Adults". Don't be an agist
.

GIVE ME A BREAK. A 9 YEAR OLD CHILD MARRYING A 50 YEAR OLD MAN ????? Consider as a saintly person ??? Will you allow your 9 year old daugther to marry a 50 year old man ????

I'm starting to fall sick. This is a clear example of a Muslim(you) who knows its immoral but refuse to question it. Fear of Hell-fire nothingelse.




You must mean ex-hypocrite. The so called vast knowledge you have for Islam has all been but vast and extensive. I'm still awaiting a response to what I've stated in rebuttle to you.

what rebuttle ?? Please show it, i'll be glad to rebutt it


Here is one article that might help deter some dirty thoughts that are clouding this conversation:


If you wish to read the site and alittle more of the article here it is: http://anwary-islam.com/women/prophets-wives.htm


Here is another lengthy article on the topic:

http://www.islamonline.net/askaboutislam/display.asp?hquestionID=7810



If you are just interested in the number of wives and details go here for a chart :

http://www.answering-christianity.org/wives.htm

All i need is How many wives did the prophet had ??? thats all


Peace to you man.
 
Upvote 0

humblemuslim

I am busy currently. Will be less active soon.
Mar 25, 2005
3,812
111
39
USA
✟27,028.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
As the child grows up he/she will realise that their true parents is nowhere to be found and they are taken care off by their foster parents. The Child will than respect his/her foster parents even more for taking care of him/her all these years. Compare this to a Child at a young age who lost his/her parents find it hard to accept that he/she has no parents and is only taken care off by guardians. This is cruel indeed, tell the child that you have no parents and we are only guardian is cruel indeed. Sometimes a person needs commn sense.

Cruel? No one is telling you to terrorize a 3 year old child with the details of their parents death. It would appear it is the decision of the guardian when to reveal such details/information depending a situtation to situtation basis.

Guardian - One that guards, watches over, or protects.
Adoption - To take into one's family through legal means and raise as one's own child.

I'll comment more when I have more time avaiable but inform me if these official definitions are acceptable.



GIVE ME A BREAK. A 9 YEAR OLD CHILD MARRYING A 50 YEAR OLD MAN ????? Consider as a saintly person ??? Will you allow your 9 year old daugther to marry a 50 year old man ????

I'm starting to fall sick. This is a clear example of a Muslim(you) who knows its immoral but refuse to question it. Fear of Hell-fire nothingelse.

This is your personal distaste for it. You can't call everything you don't like immoral, this is silly.

If you seriously think what you stated is immoral then I implore you to define circumstances where it is immoral using good strong moral arguments and also prove that AGE ALONE is a valid moral consideration.

Looking forward to this :yum:



what rebuttle ?? Please show it, i'll be glad to rebutt it

There all over this thread. If you want specific post numbers I can offer them later.


All i need is How many wives did the prophet had ??? thats all

If the chart is entirely correct: 11 that I count. But you must consider the fact that he wasn't married to all of them at once. (Which should be realized from past comments). I'll check other sources to see if 11 is reasonable figure.

peace
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.