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Islam doesn't condone terror

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Rebax

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Exactly, that's why they can't take non-Moslems as close friends because by our very 'stubborness' in not joining Islam we're deemed to be cursed.


What do you base your argumnt on? I live in sweden and all of my friends are non-muslims. It's not forbidden to us to have a friend relation with them.
What is forbidden though is going after their bad things (imitating them in things thats against the islamic faith).
It just end up with you forget your faith and so on.

Maybe you base your argument on this verse?

"O you who believe! do not take for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery and a joke, from among those who were given the Book before you and the unbelievers; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah if you are believers. And when you call to prayer they make it a mockery and a joke; this is because they are a people who do not
understand."
(Quran 5:57-58)

As it can be clearly seen, the Jews and Christians mentioned above are those 'who take your religion for a mockery and a joke.'
In view of the above explanation, I believe these verses should not be taken to be a general directive of our relationship with Jews and Christians. Instead our relationship with the people of other faiths should only be avoided when it becomes harmful for Muslims, and otherwise we should feel free to enjoy a comfortable relationship with our Jew and Christian brothers and sisters.

Also these verses can be found:


"Say: 'O People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians)! Come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.' If then they turn back, say ye: 'Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).' (The Noble Quran, 3:64)"

"Strongest among men in enmity to the believers (Muslims) wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, 'We are Christians': because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. (The Noble Quran, 5:82)"
"Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book
 
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Rebax

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When one is critical about Islam, Muslims are not any longer a partner in the discussion, because they cannot be... (As it is forbidden, to criticize Islam, according to Islamic law.)

And that effectively ends all discussion...

Sure, the discussion goes on, most of the time with a lot of copy pasting, but the contents of the discussion does not matter at all... Because it is not an open discussion about facts or about truth finding, but about justification and the love of self, that is, self-expression...

Islam is characterized by one main thing, that is the love of self (the other being the love of the world, which is secondary to the love of self).... Even the moderate Muslims (the ones who don't want to kill every non-Muslims when they have the chance) identify with Muhammad, in the way of the love of self.

They identify with Muhammad and love Muhammad above everything else (which is the indicator of the love of self), including that which is most sacred, namely love, truth and spiritual freedom...

Only by the power of God, can someone be pulled to the real love of God and only when one searches for the truth, which all human must do.. And many Muslims are absolutely not searching for the truth (which isn't strange, because a lot of non-Muslims are also not searching)... And if one does not search, one will most certainly not find.

"Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching." - Quran 16:125

You're completely wrong, muslims are ment to discuss about their faith, give other people better understanding of islam in a discussion. Yet you fail to answer my previous posts that answered you and you compeltly ignored it, I wonder why? You had nothing to say? You have no base for your statements? I gave you fact by provide historical views...Yet you don't answer? O may Allah guides you.


And you said Islam is about self-love, which is completly wrong...If you read the Quran it tells us this worlds short...we should do right things, like feeding the poor people, freeing the slave and doing good things. Self-love are something that people that's not muslim suffer from. In a hadith we can read that Muhammed (pbuh) said ''None of you are a muslim before what you desire for yourself (Good things), do it for your brother too''

About that Muhammed (pbuh) is above everything is wrong, we worship Allah, the only God that's worth to worship, yet we have a big respect for him because he guided the mankind to the true faith again. I think you mixed up christianity and Islam, it's you who give Jesus same status as God...and even sometimes higher by praying to him.


Peace.
 
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Rebax

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This is the strangeness of Islamic apologetics.

I cite an hadith from a university web-site. It's 'assumed' to be from an anti-Islamic one, though I clearly gave the link.

I say this man was murdered for speaking out against Islam and Moslem apologists say EXACTLY THE SAME THING - he was murdered for being 'at war' with Islam.

I'm left wondering if the apologetics is actually understanding of this problem.

I just said it reminded me of it since they have bring it up loads of times.

About the matter, sometimes the mouth can cause more trouble than the faith. If you readed the article and look at historical views you would surly see what he caused.
 
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plenary

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You're completely wrong, muslims are ment to discuss about their faith, give other people better understanding of islam in a discussion. Yet you fail to answer my previous posts that answered you and you compeltly ignored it, I wonder why? You had nothing to say? You have no base for your statements? I gave you fact by provide historical views...Yet you don't answer? O may Allah guides you.

I don't answer long copy-paste posts, because I am not sure, that the ones who copy paste large texts, are really searching for truth...
If I am sure, that someone is really searching and is open for discussion, than I will react...

And you said Islam is about self-love, which is completly wrong...If you read the Quran it tells us this worlds short...we should do right things, like feeding the poor people, freeing the slave and doing good things. Self-love are something that people that's not muslim suffer from. In a hadith we can read that Muhammed (pbuh) said ''None of you are a muslim before what you desire for yourself (Good things), do it for your brother too''

Look man, there are also texts in the Quran which state that a Muslim should treat other muslims with compassion and non-Mulims firmly or harshly, whatever the translation may be...
Hell, a portion of the Iranian Muslims think they have to eradicate all the Jews, in order that the Mahdi and Christ will come back...
And these kind of statements anger people...
And what's this sh*t about killing someone who criticizes Islam??? That isn't even blasphemy, though Pakistan calls it as such... (Blasphemy only counts towards God, not towards prophets..... nor towards teachings)

Those aren't Gods laws, these are laws of the devil...

About that Muhammed (pbuh) is above everything is wrong, we worship Allah, the only God that's worth to worship, yet we have a big respect for him because he guided the mankind to the true faith again. I think you mixed up christianity and Islam, it's you who give Jesus same status as God...and even sometimes higher by praying to him.

I have read statements that read that whatever allah and muhammad have decided is law... A prophet is a servant of God, not a ruler...
And besides, in Islam faith in Muhammad is essential, which would make him a Messiah...
I do not remember who it was, but a Muslims told on this forum, that he loved Muhammad more than anyone else... Which is part of the problem... One should love God more than anything else, thereafter his fellow man and thereafter himself... That is the order of things....
Prophets are only servants, who will receive there rewards in the afterlife... But they still are just human beings...

And Yes, Jesus Christ is the Word of God made flesh.... (Read John 1)... But don't take my word for it, investigate.... And don't believe Muhammad beforehand....
 
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b&wpac7

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And Yes, Jesus Christ is the Word of God made flesh.... (Read John 1)... But don't take my word for it, investigate.... And don't believe Muhammad beforehand....

Off topic but why do you (and many Christians) believe that if we just investigated the issue, we'd come to agree with you?
 
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plenary

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Hi Plenary,
What is your personal definitian of a prophet and prophesy?
Am asking because, in the last few posts of yours you have given extra pressure to it.
What I mean is,how do you know if anyone is a prophet?
Can you give some examples?

A prophet is someone who has received the gift of prophecy... (Which is one of the gifts, there are more, however, but the gift of prophecy is the highest, because it is the most important...) But someone who has the gift of prophecy, most of the times, also has other gifts... (Such as the gift of healing or the gift of explanations, etc.)

Essentially, someone who has the gift of prophecy, has been enlightened in his heart... (his heart which is in his soul, that is where spiritual life, free will, conscience are situated) Which means a prophet has a more direct connection to God....

A prophet is someone who has conquered his self-love and his love for the world through self-denial, in ample degree...

There are also false prophets, who according to Christian law, denounce Christ as the Messiah (which according to Jewish and Christian law is God Himself (and yes, there are also Jews who say otherwise, Jeremia and Isaiah are clear, however...)
A false prophet is a prophet who loves his self and loves the world....

It is the Spirit of God, who validates a prophet.. Which can also be seen in the doctrine that prophets teach.... (For example, Muhammad taught things completely different than Paul, John etc, and also different than Eliah, Jeremia, Isaiah, so it is impossible, that Muhammad was a true prophet... Let alone the last prophet.)

I have a very good friend, though I hav,nt met him in many years, he was and is a, don,t know the word for it, maybe it is similar in Dutch, "Föreståndare" for a pentecostal community, though his views of "pentecostal" are mostly rejected by the majority.

In english it is translated as such:
MANAGER
SUPERINTENDENT
DIRECTOR
PRINCIPAL
WARDEN
HEAD

In dutch it could be translated as "voorstander", which has a slightly different meaning than the Swedish one.... In Dutch we have the term "voorganger", which is essentially a kind of priest. But regardless, it is not the same as a prophet....
A prophet is someone to which God speaks directly, through the Spirit of God... Which is different from "standard" Christians, to which God also speaks, in the Spirit, but it is not as clear as to a prophet....
But also in the life of Christians, God is present and can be felt... (God communicates in many ways and forms.)


He was very sceptical to those who considered themselves a prophet.
He even told a woman once to"sit down".
It is obvious that it is not a good thing to have people popping up here and there proclaiming they have a message from God, it can lead just anywhere.

It is the Spirit of God who validates prophets... It can be felt, in the Spirit.

However, qouteing now from an article by Mendy Hecht in answer to a question,"What is prophecy?". Just a little from the answer.
1,"The era of prophesy came to an end some 23 centuries ago.

?? the revelation of John, from the Bible, is after the death of Christ... and revelations are prophetic in nature... so 23 centuries ago is impossible.

2,"Nevertheless, the principle that G-d communicates to mankind through prophecy remains a foundation of the Jewish faith".

Christianity still has prophets, to this day.

3,"A lesser form of prophesy, known as, ruach hakodesh (divine inspiration), remains the province of the tzaddikim, (the righteous men and women) of all generations.

It is possible to experience God through the Spirit of God, which is true, but revelations are a step further... And there are some extremely profound texts...

4, "And in a letter to the Jews of Yemen, Maimonides recounts an age-old tradition that "shortly before the Messianic era, prophesy will return to the Jewish people". End of the quotes.

Nope... the Jewish period is no more... It was the period between the church of Noach and the church of Christ. Prophecy will not return to the jewish church, because prophecy has never left the church... The church is now in the Christian era.... (And although also the Christian church will change somewhat, because the creation is always moving), the sacrifice of Christ and thereby the Cross of Christ is and stays the center....

In general we need no prophesy today, Gods will is already written down. What we do need, is to use our brain, and develope a sensitivity to be able to seperate the two inner voices.
My opinion is, there is divine guidence for all who seek it with all honesty and uprightness.
What say you?
Also others, of course.

Indeed, there is spiritual guidance for all who seek, that is most certainly true... But also don't forget, if one searches, one has to search in meekness, humility and most important love... One must abolish the works of the world, so seek earnestly and uprightly....

But as for the part that we need no prophecy today, that is completely false, because prophets are the most prolificient in building up the church...
The highest in calling are the prophets, because if one wants to be the closest to God, one has to know the Holy Will of God... And the ones who know the Will of God the best, are the ones who are in direct contact with God, through the Holy Spirit of God.... And prophet's know this is the way God works.... Muhammad didn't know the first thing about this...
 
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plenary

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Off topic but why do you (and many Christians) believe that if we just investigated the issue, we'd come to agree with you?

Because that is the way I received my faith from God.. I was effectively an atheist before that....

The Jews have had many prophets, throughout the years, which validated the Jews as the people of God. Nowadays, the Christians have prophets..... (The Jews can also have prophets, but in order to have them, they have to acknowledge Christ, because He has died for our sins..)

And if one searches in meekness, humility, uprightly, abolishing the world and most importantly with love, than one will always find Christ, which He said Himself...

When I return home, I will search for the prophetic text in which this is stated by Christ Himself. (which is not in the Bible, but in a modern prophetic text.)

And as always, the only way to validate this, is to validate it yourself... (With regard to the searching)
 
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Rebax

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I don't answer long copy-paste posts, because I am not sure, that the ones who copy paste large texts, are really searching for truth...
If I am sure, that someone is really searching and is open for discussion, than I will react...



Look man, there are also texts in the Quran which state that a Muslim should treat other muslims with compassion and non-Mulims firmly or harshly, whatever the translation may be...
Hell, a portion of the Iranian Muslims think they have to eradicate all the Jews, in order that the Mahdi and Christ will come back...
And these kind of statements anger people...
And what's this sh*t about killing someone who criticizes Islam??? That isn't even blasphemy, though Pakistan calls it as such... (Blasphemy only counts towards God, not towards prophets..... nor towards teachings)

Those aren't Gods laws, these are laws of the devil...



I have read statements that read that whatever allah and muhammad have decided is law... A prophet is a servant of God, not a ruler...
And besides, in Islam faith in Muhammad is essential, which would make him a Messiah...
I do not remember who it was, but a Muslims told on this forum, that he loved Muhammad more than anyone else... Which is part of the problem... One should love God more than anything else, thereafter his fellow man and thereafter himself... That is the order of things....
Prophets are only servants, who will receive there rewards in the afterlife... But they still are just human beings...

And Yes, Jesus Christ is the Word of God made flesh.... (Read John 1)... But don't take my word for it, investigate.... And don't believe Muhammad beforehand....

Where does it state we should treat non-muslims harsh? Show me please if you speak the truth!

I'm against Iran myself, their politic and their beleif (shiites, they're a sect), it fights against Quran and lots of the Hadith by Muhammed (pbuh), I'm a sunni not shiite.

Where did you find ''everyone that criticize muslims should be killed''?

So just because a muslim on this forum said he love Muhammed (pbuh) more than anything, then you take it on the islamic faith and believe it's what we teach? Wow. And about prophets are only servant of God are true, Muhammed (pbuh) said it a lot of times that he's Allah's slave. Just like Jesus (pbuh), they came to Guide people.

Like Jesus himself said, he's only a prophet that came to guide ''The lost sheeps of israel''

Mark 12:29 Jesus said "Here, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." Remember he said ''Our Lord'' not ''Your God''

John 20:17 Jesus said "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "

John 8:28 Jesus said "I do nothing of myself" Can't God do anything he wills?

John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD) is greater than I"

Luke 18:19 ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone."

All these words speaks about Jesus (pbuh) was nothing more than a servant of God.

Peace brother.
 
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b&wpac7

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And if one searches in meekness, humility, uprightly, abolishing the world and most importantly with love, than one will always find Christ, which He said Himself...

I did search and didn't find Jesus (forgive me but I refuse to refer to him as christ). I spent several years searching. See, the thing is you're going to tell me I was doing it wrong, but I tell you I searched and struggled for years. Jesus didn't show up. I really find the attitude disturbing that because you found what you believe is the answer then I must be wrong because I found something else. I think it's presumptuous and arrogant to state anything like that. When I investigated my current faith, I was drawn to it and found what I was looking for and feel that I found where God wants me to be.

I don't believe you have prophets today. I simply do not.
 
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Robban

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A prophet is someone who has received the gift of prophecy... (Which is one of the gifts, there are more, however, but the gift of prophecy is the highest, because it is the most important...) But someone who has the gift of prophecy, most of the times, also has other gifts... (Such as the gift of healing or the gift of explanations, etc.)

Essentially, someone who has the gift of prophecy, has been enlightened in his heart... (his heart which is in his soul, that is where spiritual life, free will, conscience are situated) Which means a prophet has a more direct connection to God....

A prophet is someone who has conquered his self-love and his love for the world through self-denial, in ample degree...

There are also false prophets, who according to Christian law, denounce Christ as the Messiah (which according to Jewish and Christian law is God Himself (and yes, there are also Jews who say otherwise, Jeremia and Isaiah are clear, however...)
A false prophet is a prophet who loves his self and loves the world....

It is the Spirit of God, who validates a prophet.. Which can also be seen in the doctrine that prophets teach.... (For example, Muhammad taught things completely different than Paul, John etc, and also different than Eliah, Jeremia, Isaiah, so it is impossible, that Muhammad was a true prophet... Let alone the last prophet.)



In english it is translated as such:
MANAGER
SUPERINTENDENT
DIRECTOR
PRINCIPAL
WARDEN
HEAD

In dutch it could be translated as "voorstander", which has a slightly different meaning than the Swedish one.... In Dutch we have the term "voorganger", which is essentially a kind of priest. But regardless, it is not the same as a prophet....
A prophet is someone to which God speaks directly, through the Spirit of God... Which is different from "standard" Christians, to which God also speaks, in the Spirit, but it is not as clear as to a prophet....
But also in the life of Christians, God is present and can be felt... (God communicates in many ways and forms.)




It is the Spirit of God who validates prophets... It can be felt, in the Spirit.



?? the revelation of John, from the Bible, is after the death of Christ... and revelations are prophetic in nature... so 23 centuries ago is impossible.



Christianity still has prophets, to this day.



It is possible to experience God through the Spirit of God, which is true, but revelations are a step further... And there are some extremely profound texts...



Nope... the Jewish period is no more... It was the period between the church of Noach and the church of Christ. Prophecy will not return to the jewish church, because prophecy has never left the church... The church is now in the Christian era.... (And although also the Christian church will change somewhat, because the creation is always moving), the sacrifice of Christ and thereby the Cross of Christ is and stays the center....



Indeed, there is spiritual guidance for all who seek, that is most certainly true... But also don't forget, if one searches, one has to search in meekness, humility and most important love... One must abolish the works of the world, so seek earnestly and uprightly....

But as for the part that we need no prophecy today, that is completely false, because prophets are the most prolificient in building up the church...
The highest in calling are the prophets, because if one wants to be the closest to God, one has to know the Holy Will of God... And the ones who know the Will of God the best, are the ones who are in direct contact with God, through the Holy Spirit of God.... And prophet's know this is the way God works.... Muhammad didn't know the first thing about this...
Thanks for help in the translation.
I was tempted to use "manager" but did not think it fitted, though it is appropiate.
I think you Christians should investigate more, though it is difficult for you folks to do that, for some reason, maybe frightened of being called heritic, I don,t know.
 
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plenary

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I think you Christians should investigate more, though it is difficult for you folks to do that, for some reason, maybe frightened of being called heritic, I don,t know.

Why? We have signs, wonders, revelations and prophetic texts... what do we need more...

But if you don's earnestly search, you will not be able to verify these statements, because faith, just as love (which are fundamentally the same) comes only from God, when one perseus these things...

I did search and didn't find Jesus (forgive me but I refuse to refer to him as christ). I spent several years searching. See, the thing is you're going to tell me I was doing it wrong, but I tell you I searched and struggled for years. Jesus didn't show up. I really find the attitude disturbing that because you found what you believe is the answer then I must be wrong because I found something else. I think it's presumptuous and arrogant to state anything like that. When I investigated my current faith, I was drawn to it and found what I was looking for and feel that I found where God wants me to be.

I don't believe you have prophets today. I simply do not.

Why... Do you think that the gift of prophecy has ended? Why? It is Christian doctrine, that anyone who really pursues the gift of prophecy, can also acquire it.... It is what Paul states, that one should try after the gift of prophecy...

And Paul was right... Many other prophets validate these sayings of Paul....


And I do not judge what you think or may not think... I only hope the best for you... I have searched myself for many years and found, what Jesus also has claimed, that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life...

The following is a message from Christ the Lord, regarding finding Him... (note, this is a part from a prophetic tekst from the 1800's... An extremely profound text, which spans 11 volumes...

19] Truly, those who will not look for Me there where I am, are not going to find Me and also will not find Me. In time many will look for Me and are not going to find Me! There will be times in which many false prophets and Messiahs will rise and say to you: ‘See, here is the Anointed!’ or ‘There he is!’ However, all those do not believe, for where they say I could be found, I will be found in the least and actually will never be found. Who will look for Me in anything which just in the slightest manner smells worldly, will not find Me, but only he, who searches for Me in true love, humility and self-abnegation, will surly always and everywhere find Me.

20] But you have gone out with a little annoyed disposition, to look for Me, while earlier on I did not tell you where I would be going to this morning before the morning meal. And see, this was not the right place, firstly spiritually in your disposition to look for Me, and secondly it therefore was also not the right place externally where I could be found!

21] This does not bears any relation to you towards Me, but I only showed you this in a picture, how things will be in future. Therefore, just like Me, every real teacher should at every opportunity place his words in such a way, also with regard to the most trifle matters, that they may serve as a basis for a new, important teaching. Since truly I say to you: In the kingdom of the spirits, who are pure before God, you will be held accountable for every vainly empty word and become wrecked before the pure light of truth out of God!”

22] These words did not tasted too well for the disciples; but they nevertheless recorded them deeply into their souls.
 
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plenary

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Where does it state we should treat non-muslims harsh? Show me please if you speak the truth!

Surah Fath 48:29
Muhammad - the messenger of GOD - and those with him are harsh and stern against the disbelievers, but kind and compassionate amongst themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating, as they seek GOD's blessings and approval. Their marks are on their faces, because of prostrating. This is the same example as in the Torah. Their example in the Gospel is like plants that grow taller and stronger, and please the farmers. He thus enrages the disbelievers. GOD promises those among them who believe, and lead a righteous life, forgiveness and a great recompense.

Whatever the translation may read because there are also translations which read "hard" or "firm" instead "harsh" but what is important that what is meant is the opposite of compassionate....
Every human being should be compassionate to their fellow human beings... Because in the end, we are all in the same boat...

The only thing that can effectively save a human being, is love... Because in essence, faith and love are the same... Which is a deep secret.

Where did you find ''everyone that criticize muslims should be killed''?

Go ask the Pakistani, they know... And it's not about critising Muslims, but Islam that is considered blashpemy... But in reality, that is no blasphemy, because the only blasphemy that exists, is the blasphemy of God, not of his prophets.. Which are only servant (although they have their reward in heaven.) But stating "peace be unto him" is totally unnessary, because they will have their reward from God, if they are truly prophets...

So just because a muslim on this forum said he love Muhammed (pbuh) more than anything, then you take it on the islamic faith and believe it's what we teach? Wow. And about prophets are only servant of God are true, Muhammed (pbuh) said it a lot of times that he's Allah's slave. Just like Jesus (pbuh), they came to Guide people.

Jesus died for us, on the Cross... Jesus healed scores of persons, by only uttering one word... He even resurrected people, just by speaking a Word...

Like Jesus himself said, he's only a prophet that came to guide ''The lost sheeps of israel''

No, Jesus has never claimed to be a prophet. He only made the comparison, to the way prophets before Him were treated..... Jesus claimed that anyone who had seen the Son, had also seen the Father...


Mark 12:29 Jesus said "Here, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." Remember he said ''Our Lord'' not ''Your God''

John 20:17 Jesus said "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "

John 8:28 Jesus said "I do nothing of myself" Can't God do anything he wills?

John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD) is greater than I"

Luke 18:19 ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone."

All these words speaks about Jesus (pbuh) was nothing more than a servant of God.

Jesus Christ had not come to be venerated, but to serve... And the difference between the Father and the Son, is the same as between the Love of God and the Truth of God.... Yes, Jesus came to serve us... Even unto death.... But the Father and the Son are One and the Same.... The Father is the Love of God, whereas the Son is the Truth of God... (because Divine Truth always proceeds from divine Love..)

Peace brother.

God bless you.... And may you grow in the love and truth of God...

Philippians 2:4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;
11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.



There are many indications that the Spirit that dwelt in Jesus Christ, was Jehova Zebaoth, which is the Spirit of God... For example, angels served and obeyed Christ, and angels only serve and obey God Himself...
 
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Rebax

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Where does it state we should treat non-muslims harsh? Show me please if you speak the truth!



Which would be a correct difference, because there are also translations which read "hard" or "firm" instead "harsh" but what is important that what is meant is the opposite of compassionate....

Every human being should be compassionate to their fellow human beings... Because in the end, we are all in the same boat...

The only thing that can effectively save a human being, is love... Because in essence, faith and love are the same... Which is a deep secret.

The translation of the referred verse is reproduced below for quick reference:

Muhammad is the apostle of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.


This verse refers to that there are good people among the jews/christians and God is the merciful and the forgiving and accepet them if they turn to him and ask for forgiveness. I don't see where you could see this verse as something that tells the muslims to not be with non-muslims? This chapter in the Quran speaks about the conquest of Makkah. Muhammed (pbuh) gave amnesty to the civilians in Mecca after the war and if you read the whole Surah, you will get a better understanding of it. (If you want to know more about the conquest of Mecca I'm sure you can find a lot on some good sites)

If you want to know the methafor for the verse it can be found below:

This is their similitude in the Torah. And their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the farmer with wonder and delight. [God has strengthened this tree] to fill the rejecters with rage. (Al-Fath 48: 29)
In this verse, the Qur'an has referred to some of the qualities of the companions of the Prophet (pbuh), which were also mentioned in the Torah and the Gospel. The quality, which, according to the Qur'an, was mentioned in the Torah is:You see them bowing and prostrating themselves, seeking the blessings of God and His pleasure. On their faces are their marks - traces of their prostration.

Though the exact words are not found in the present-day translations of the Torah, yet most of the Muslim commentators have construed this to be a reference to the following verse of Deuteronomy:

The LORD came from Sinai, And dawned on them from Seir; He shone forth from Mount Paran, And He came from the midst of ten thousand holy ones; At His right hand there was flashing lightning for them. Indeed, He loves the people; All Thy holy ones are in Thy hand, And they followed in Thy steps;[Everyone] receives of Thy words. (33: 2 - 3)

As for the similitude of the companions in the Gospel, it is referenced in the Qur'an as:

... a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the farmer with wonder and delight.
Most of the commentators of the Qur'an take this to be a reference to the following verses of Matthew:
He presented another parable to them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field; and this is smaller than all [other] seeds; but when it is full grown, it is larger than the garden plants, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches." (13: 31 - 32)
The same parable, with very slight variations of words is also given in Mark 4: 30 - 32 and Luke 13: 18 - 19.
 
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Rebax

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´´Jesus Christ had not come to be venerated, but to serve... And the difference between the Father and the Sun, is the same as between the Love of God and the Truth of God.... Yes, Jesus came to serve us... Even unto death.... But the Father and the Son are One and the Same....´´

How can they are the same? You said in your previous post that Jesus (pbuh) was the word of God?
If Jesus was GOD,then why in John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD) is greater than I"?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:30 Jesus told his followers that he can't do a single thing of his own initiative?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:36-38 Jesus said that GOD had assigned him (Jesus) work and GOD is a witness on Jesus?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:32 Jesus told his followers that they have never seen GOD at anytime nor ever heard his voice?

If Jesus was GOD, then how come in Hebrew 5:7 he prayed and cried for GOD to hear him and give him mercy by saving him from death?

In islam Jesus (pbuh) was saved by God, instead in christinity he was spit on and died a painful slow death, Allah truly have mercy on his servants. Was Eves sin that great
so God couldn't forgive it before he let innocent Jesus (pbuh) die a painful death? I don't see the logic in this, if you look at how muslims look at Jesus (pbuh), you will notice that we truly give him more respect to him and since God never let his servants down if they truly worship him from the heart.

Also you said Jesus was not sended as a prophet hmm?

"A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, 'Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession. Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, 'Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.' He [Jesus] answered, 'I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.' The woman came and knelt before him. 'Lord, help me!' she said. He [Jesus] replied 'It is not right to take the children's [Jews] bread [blessings and miracles reserved for them] and toss it to their dogs [the Canaanite, or the Philistines].' 'Yes, Lord' she said, 'but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table.' Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.' And her daughter was healed from that very hour. (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 15:22-28)"

Also about where your base on where Quran tells us whoever criticse quran should be killed you answered this?
''Go ask the Pakistani, they know... And it's not about critising Muslims, but Islam that is considered blashpemy... But in reality, that is no blasphemy, because the only blasphemy that exists, is the blasphemy of God, not of his prophets.. Which are only servant (although they have their reward in heaven.) But stating "peace be unto him" is totally unnessary, because they will have their reward from God, if they are truly prophets...''


Should I ask a pakistani? How do I know they're a muslim? I though what you were fighting for here is that faith is found in the heart..not by saying words, seemed to be the opposite? Psst.

Peace.
 
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Robban

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Why? We have signs, wonders, revelations and prophetic texts... what do we need more...

But if you don's earnestly search, you will not be able to verify these statements, because faith, just as love (which are fundamentally the same) comes only from God, when one perseus these things...



Why... Do you think that the gift of prophecy has ended? Why? It is Christian doctrine, that anyone who really pursues the gift of prophecy, can also acquire it.... It is what Paul states, that one should try after the gift of prophecy...

And Paul was right... Many other prophets validate these sayings of Paul....


And I do not judge what you think or may not think... I only hope the best for you... I have searched myself for many years and found, what Jesus also has claimed, that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life...

The following is a message from Christ the Lord, regarding finding Him... (note, this is a part from a prophetic tekst from the 1800's... An extremely profound text, which spans 11 volumes...
What is it that makes that so remarkable? The exerpt you have given only confirms that it was written by someone with a judgemental mind, that kind of stuff is all too common.A problem with many Christians, they are so busy judging others, they do not realize that they themselves are being judged. So what makes it prophetic?
 
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Montalban

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What do you base your argumnt on? I live in sweden and all of my friends are non-muslims. It's not forbidden to us to have a friend relation with them.
What is forbidden though is going after their bad things (imitating them in things thats against the islamic faith).
It just end up with you forget your faith and so on.

Maybe you base your argument on this verse?

"O you who believe! do not take for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery and a joke, from among those who were given the Book before you and the unbelievers; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah if you are believers. And when you call to prayer they make it a mockery and a joke; this is because they are a people who do not
understand."
(Quran 5:57-58)

As it can be clearly seen, the Jews and Christians mentioned above are those 'who take your religion for a mockery and a joke.'
In view of the above explanation, I believe these verses should not be taken to be a general directive of our relationship with Jews and Christians. Instead our relationship with the people of other faiths should only be avoided when it becomes harmful for Muslims, and otherwise we should feel free to enjoy a comfortable relationship with our Jew and Christian brothers and sisters.

Also these verses can be found:


"Say: 'O People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians)! Come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.' If then they turn back, say ye: 'Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).' (The Noble Quran, 3:64)"

"Strongest among men in enmity to the believers (Muslims) wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, 'We are Christians': because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. (The Noble Quran, 5:82)"
"Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book

Based on the Koran...

5:51
O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliya' to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya', then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust).


Islamic opinion...
It is not permissible for a Muslim man or woman to take a male or female friend who is not a Muslim, because Allaah has forbidden us to love the kuffaar or take them as close friends and companions
Islam Question and Answer - Should she end her relationship with some kaafir women or use the opportunity for da’wah?

"Jane Gerber claims that the Qur'an ascribes negative traits to Jews, such as cowardice, greed, and chicanery. She also alleges that the Qur'an associates Jews with interconfessional strife and rivalry (Qur'an 2:113), the Jewish belief that they alone are beloved of God (Qur'an 5:18), and that only they will achieve salvation (Qur'an 2:111).[91] According to the Encyclopedia Judaica, the Qur'an contains many attacks on Jews and Christians for their refusal to recognize Muhammad as a prophet.[92] In the Muslim view, the crucifixion of Jesus was an illusion, and thus the Jewish plots against him ended in failure.[93] In numerous verses (3:63; 3:71; 4:46; 4:160–161; 5:41–44, 5:63–64, 5:82; 6:92)[94] the Qur'an accuses Jews of altering the Scripture.[95]

Qur'anic statements which portray Christians and Jews in a negative image (9:30, 5:72, 3:85, 4:150, 58:22) include verse 30 of Al-Tawba which states:

"And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of God; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of God; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may God destroy them; how they are turned away!"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Qur'an
 
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Montalban

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I just said it reminded me of it since they have bring it up loads of times.

About the matter, sometimes the mouth can cause more trouble than the faith. If you readed the article and look at historical views you would surly see what he caused.

I did read it, and it doesn't matter. He was critical of Islam and was murdered
 
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Ishraqiyun

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He's not so loving that when you're in paradise you still desire a non-alcaholic drink!

:). But who could turn down the wine of gnosis , love, and communion ?

Your spirit is mingled with mine
as wine is mixed with water;
whatever touches you touches me.
In all the stations of the soul you are I.
~Mansur al-Hallaj

O saki, fill a cup
with that wine:
my heart, my religion
my sweet life.
Can drinking be my liturgy?
Then my Faith
will be to sip the Beloved
from this chalice.
~ Fakhruddin Iraqi
 
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