Isaiah 6

[Ran77]

Isaiah 6: 5-7

5. Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.

6. Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:

7. And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.


I'm curious how other Christian faiths interpret this verse. What is the coal? What is happening in these verses?

 

[bling]

v.5 Means he is unworthy to do anything for such an amazing God (which he understands to be Holy Holy).

v. 6 Fire symbolizes purification so the hot coal from the altar. Coming from the altar where atonement takes place conveys the idea of his sins being atoned for and he is forgiven.

v.7 It is symbolically showing he has been forgiven and is now pure to go forth as God’s messenger.

 

[Ran77]

v.5 Means he is unworthy to do anything for such an amazing God (which he understands to be Holy Holy).

v. 6 Fire symbolizes purification so the hot coal from the altar. Coming from the altar where atonement takes place conveys the idea of his sins being atoned for and he is forgiven.

v.7 It is symbolically showing he has been forgiven and is now pure to go forth as God’s messenger.

I'm not attempting to argue, but rather to get clarification.

Verse 6 symbolizes purification - how? That seems a generic explanation.

Why is the coal placed on his lips? What significance does that have?


Oh, and thank you for your reply.

 

[CherubRam]

Isaiah 6: 5-7

5. Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.

6. Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:

7. And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.


I'm curious how other Christian faiths interpret this verse. What is the coal? What is happening in these verses?

When used as a parable the words, fire, coal, burning, smoke, and such, stands for "judgment." Seraphim means burning ones. In other words, a being of judgment. There is no such thing as cussing, that is a wives tale. However, there is such a thing as being vulgar.

 

[Ran77]

When used as a parable the words, fire, coal, burning, smoke, and such, stands for "judgment." Seraphim means burning ones. In other words, a being of judgment. There is no such thing as cussing, that is a wives tale. However, there is such a thing as being vulgar.

Just so I am sure I understand you correctly, are you stating that this is talking about judgment for the act of being vulgar?

 

[CherubRam]

Just so I am sure I understand you correctly, are you stating that this is talking about judgment for the act of being vulgar?

It is said that there are cuss words. That is not true, it is a wives tale. In other languages there is no such thing as cuss words. There is however such a thing as being vulgar. Vulgar does not equal, cuss word. Vulgar is synonyms with: rude, indecent, indelicate, offensive, distasteful, coarse, crude, ribald, risqué, naughty, suggestive, racy, earthy, off-color, bawdy, obscene, profane, lewd, salacious, smutty, dirty, filthy, inappropriate contentographic, X-rated;...

The verse has nothing to do with being vulgar, it has everything to do with there being no such thing as a cuss word. Words that are called "cuss words" is a product of imagination. We do not use certain words because it is a cultural thing. Cultural as in cult/ivated. Think about it.

 

[bling]

I'm not attempting to argue, but rather to get clarification.

Verse 6 symbolizes purification - how? That seems a generic explanation.

Why is the coal placed on his lips? What significance does that have?


Oh, and thank you for your reply.

The hot/burning coal, I see as representing fire from the altar of atonement (fire being a way of purifying something) and it is just used to briefly touch his lips. This is to cleanse Isaiah’s lips that will now be speaking God’s words.

 

[Der Alte]

It is said that there are cuss words. That is not true, it is a wives tale. In other languages there is no such thing as cuss words. There is however such a thing as being vulgar. Vulgar does not equal, cuss word. Vulgar is synonyms with: rude, indecent, indelicate, offensive, distasteful, coarse, crude, ribald, risqué, naughty, suggestive, racy, earthy, off-color, bawdy, obscene, profane, lewd, salacious, smutty, dirty, filthy, inappropriate contentographic, X-rated;...

The verse has nothing to do with being vulgar, it has everything to do with there being no such thing as a cuss word. Words that are called "cuss words" is a product of imagination. We do not use certain words because it is a cultural thing. Cultural as in cult/ivated. Think about it.

Well when you first mentioned this nobody had said anything about "cussing" or "cuss" words. But for your information the word "cuss" is a regional corruption of the word "curse" which in Biblical times did not mean vulgar words as it does today. In Biblical times "to curse someone" meant usually to invoke God or some pagan deity to cause something evil to befall the person being "cursed." People of Biblical times thought that "curses" actually had power to harm them that is why they didn't just dislike "curses" but actually feared them. So when someone said, e.g. "G.D. you." ancient people were afraid that God would actually damn them.

 

[Ran77]

The hot/burning coal, I see as representing fire from the altar of atonement (fire being a way of purifying something) and it is just used to briefly touch his lips. This is to cleanse Isaiah’s lips that will now be speaking God’s words.

Thank you.

 

[Ran77]

The verse has nothing to do with being vulgar, it has everything to do with there being no such thing as a cuss word.

Okay.

You discussed being vulgar in your post. It sounds as if you are telling me the Bible took the time to explain to us that there are no cuss words. Is that correct?

 

[CherubRam]

Okay.

You discussed being vulgar in your post. It sounds as if you are telling me the Bible took the time to explain to us that there are no cuss words. Is that correct?

It is a small matter.

 

[CherubRam]

Well when you first mentioned this nobody had said anything about "cussing" or "cuss" words. But for your information the word "cuss" is a regional corruption of the word "curse" which in Biblical times did not mean vulgar words as it does today. In Biblical times "to curse someone" meant usually to invoke God or some pagan deity to cause something evil to befall the person being "cursed." People of Biblical times thought that "curses" actually had power to harm them that is why they didn't just dislike "curses" but actually feared them. So when someone said, e.g. "G.D. you." ancient people were afraid that God would actually damn them.

That is correct, the word "cuss" is related to the word "curse." But they are two different things.

 

[Norah63]

Jesus is also our burnt offering.
When He has touched our lips then pure words will be the result.
Just my two cents.

 

[Ran77]

Jesus is also our burnt offering.
When He has touched our lips then pure words will be the result.
Just my two cents.

I like that.

Thank you for sharing it.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Ran77,

Isaiah 6: 5-7
I'm curious how other Christian faiths interpret this verse. What is the coal? What is happening in these verses?

I am happy with bling’s explanations in Posts #2 and #7. I agree with Norah63 in Post #13, but with the condition that the effect of contact with Christ, our altar of burnt offering, is not instantaneous and full. In other words our contact with Christ is a slow transforming process.

I find Isaiah 6 fascinating, as it is a vision, but Isaiah interacts in a very realistic way, as if he is transported into the vision. Concerning the concept of “unclean lips”, the context is important. Isaiah had denounced the nation as being sick in Isaiah 1, but here he recognises his own uncleanness, as well as the people. Also the context is the death of Uzziah, and he had been smitten with leprosy when he had in pride entered the Temple, having taken a coal with incense in a censer. Now Isaiah was given a vision into the Temple, and he was fearful, and greatly humbled by the holiness of the vision, recognising his own inadequacy. One of the requirements of a leper was to cover his upper lip, a symbol of uncleanness, and Isaiah is confessing this condition in a spiritual sense, both for himself and his people.

Isaiah 1:4-5 (KJV): 4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward. 5 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.
Isaiah 6:1 (KJV): In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
Isaiah 6:5-8 (KJV): 5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts. 6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: 7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged. 8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.

Thus the vision uses typical things, such as the Temple, a coal from the altar, the concept of clean and unclean lips of the leper, to depict spiritual lessons, and effect the commissioning Of Isaiah to preach as in verse 8.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Ran77]

Greetings Ran77,

I am happy with bling’s explanations in Posts #2 and #7. I agree with Norah63 in Post #13, but with the condition that the effect of contact with Christ, our altar of burnt offering, is not instantaneous and full. In other words our contact with Christ is a slow transforming process.

I find Isaiah 6 fascinating, as it is a vision, but Isaiah interacts in a very realistic way, as if he is transported into the vision. Concerning the concept of “unclean lips”, the context is important. Isaiah had denounced the nation as being sick in Isaiah 1, but here he recognises his own uncleanness, as well as the people. Also the context is the death of Uzziah, and he had been smitten with leprosy when he had in pride entered the Temple, having taken a coal with incense in a censer. Now Isaiah was given a vision into the Temple, and he was fearful, and greatly humbled by the holiness of the vision, recognising his own inadequacy. One of the requirements of a leper was to cover his upper lip, a symbol of uncleanness, and Isaiah is confessing this condition in a spiritual sense, both for himself and his people.

Isaiah 1:4-5 (KJV): 4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward. 5 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.
Isaiah 6:1 (KJV): In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
Isaiah 6:5-8 (KJV): 5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts. 6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: 7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged. 8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.

Thus the vision uses typical things, such as the Temple, a coal from the altar, the concept of clean and unclean lips of the leper, to depict spiritual lessons, and effect the commissioning Of Isaiah to preach as in verse 8.

Kind regards
Trevor

Interesting. Thank you for the input on the topic. It gives me more to think about with this verse.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Ran77,

Interesting. Thank you for the input on the topic. It gives me more to think about with this verse.

If you are interested in Isaiah 6 as a whole, there are many aspects that could be considered. If Isaiah had been privileged to see into the Most Holy of Solomon’s Temple, as it was then standing, then he would have seen the Ark of the Covenant, with the Mercy Seat on top, and the Cherubim of gold overshadowing the Ark, and the Shekinah glory dwelling in the midst. But Isaiah saw the Lord on a Throne, and not static Cherubim, but Seraphim that were active above or surrounding the Throne. Much could be said about this development, and was this current in Isaiah's time, or a picture of the future Kingdom of God on earth, when Jesus returns?

There are various aspects of Isaiah 6 that may also be considered.
1. What is the order of the early chapters of Isaiah? If Isaiah 6 is his call to prophesy, are Isaiah 1-5 before or after this event?
2. It is interesting to try to understand Isaiah 6:9-10. How did this outwork in the life and prophecy of Isaiah. These verses are quoted at least three times in the NT. What is the significance of this NT application.
3. What is the significance of the Seraphim covering the face, the feet and flying with three pairs of wings?

I would be interested if others have considered some of these aspects and their understanding of these. Also any other considerations of Isaiah 6 could be interesting.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[DennisTate]

Isaiah 6: 5-7

5. Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.

6. Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:

7. And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.


I'm curious how other Christian faiths interpret this verse. What is the coal? What is happening in these verses?

In my opinion these verses fit very well with the ways in which somebody who is already serving God can be taken up to a new and vastly greater level of understanding and power.

A Pastor Rick Joyner had asked God to correct him and show him where he was wrong and the visionary dream of heaven that he was given in 1995 profoundly changed his life.

Here are a few quotations from what he was shown....... I highly recommend the book "The Vision" by Rick Joyner.


http://www.christianforums.com/t7653651/

Has God called some of us to be poor, sick, no arms or legs and persecuted???

Pastor Rick Joyner:

Who pleases Jesus the most?


He then stopped and I turned to look at those in the thrones next to us. We were still in the place where the very highest kings were sitting. Then I recogniozed a man who was close by.

"Sir, I know you from somewhere, but I just cannot remember where."

"You once saw me in a vision," he replied.

I immediately remembered, and I was shocked! "So you were a real person?"

"Yes," he replied.

I then began to remember the day when as a young Christian I had become frustrated with some issues in my life. I went out into the middle of a battlefield park near my apartment and determined to wait until the Lord spoke to me. As I sat reading my Bible, I was caught up in a vision, one of the first that I ever had......

​

 

[Ran77]

Greetings again Ran77,

If you are interested in Isaiah 6 as a whole, there are many aspects that could be considered. If Isaiah had been privileged to see into the Most Holy of Solomon’s Temple, as it was then standing, then he would have seen the Ark of the Covenant, with the Mercy Seat on top, and the Cherubim of gold overshadowing the Ark, and the Shekinah glory dwelling in the midst. But Isaiah saw the Lord on a Throne, and not static Cherubim, but Seraphim that were active above or surrounding the Throne. Much could be said about this development, and was this current in Isaiah's time, or a picture of the future Kingdom of God on earth, when Jesus returns?

There are various aspects of Isaiah 6 that may also be considered.
1. What is the order of the early chapters of Isaiah? If Isaiah 6 is his call to prophesy, are Isaiah 1-5 before or after this event?
2. It is interesting to try to understand Isaiah 6:9-10. How did this outwork in the life and prophecy of Isaiah. These verses are quoted at least three times in the NT. What is the significance of this NT application.
3. What is the significance of the Seraphim covering the face, the feet and flying with three pairs of wings?

I would be interested if others have considered some of these aspects and their understanding of these. Also any other considerations of Isaiah 6 could be interesting.

Kind regards
Trevor

Thanks for the response.

Good questions. Isaiah is an interesting book and several great understandings of the verse have been given. I really have enjoyed reading what other people have gotten out of the verse.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Ran77,

Good questions. Isaiah is an interesting book and several great understandings of the verse have been given. I really have enjoyed reading what other people have gotten out of the verse.

I decided to make a few additional comments on Isaiah 6, in the hope of provoking some more discussion on this interesting chapter. I will start by giving my opinion on the first two questions that I raised:

1. What is the order of the early chapters of Isaiah? If Isaiah 6 is his call to prophesy, are Isaiah 1-5 before or after this event?

My understanding is that Isaiah 1-5 was when Isaiah prophesied during the latter years of King Uzziah. This would make Isaiah a general prophet, possibly derived from the School of the Prophets. The main reason for this assessment is Isaiah 2 prophecies of an impending earthquake, and we know from Amos and Zechariah that this occurred in the time of Uzziah’s reign. The prophecy of Isaiah 2:1-5 becomes very relevant if given in Uzziah’s reign, because Uzziah became almost obsessed with armaments, and to some extent his prosperity led to his pride, and Isaiah in chapter 2 denounces the pride that was evident in the nation. What then of the vision and call of Isaiah in chapter 6? It was specifically to commission him to preach his message, but also to lift him from his despondency about the events of Uzziah’s sickness and death. Another feature of Isaiah’s ministry is that he seems to have a large amount of contact with Judah’s kings, and this was an important role by comparison to a normal prophet. Firstly with Ahaz in Isaiah 7, but then his greatest ministry seems to be during Hezekiah’s reign. He seems to be greatly influential in the faithful reign of Hezekiah. The four Servant Songs of Isaiah 42:1-7, 49:1-7, 50:4-9, 52:13-53:12 seem to be patterned on the life of Hezekiah, and even the Immanuel prophecies of Isaiah 7-12 seem to be predicting the rise of Hezekiah, as a pattern of the future Messiah, the future King-Priest.

2. It is interesting to try to understand Isaiah 6:9-10. How did this outwork in the life and prophecy of Isaiah. These verses are quoted at least three times in the NT. What is the significance of this NT application?

These verses seem to indicate that the work and preaching of Isaiah would be a failure. It indicates that the nation would not see and hear and their heart would become hardened as a result of Isaiah’s preaching. This evidently was true, the nation as a whole did not respond, but the greatest result of Isaiah’s preaching was the response of a few called in Isaiah 8 Isaiah’s disciples, and this could have included Hezekiah in his formative years and during his reign. The same could be said concerning the NT application of Isaiah 6:9-10. The nation as a whole rejected Jesus, but a remnant responded. The first citation is in relation to the Parable of the Sower, and there is clearly stated that only a few faithful, the babes like the disciples, would respond. At the end of his ministry, when Jesus was being rejected in John 12, there was an encouraging incident with the two Greeks, who sought Jesus. John 12 then quotes Isaiah 6:9-10 and Isaiah 53 concerning the nation’s lack of response to Jesus. And finally the Jews at Rome mostly failed to respond to Paul and again Isaiah 6:9-10 is quoted.

Kind regards
Trevor