One goes to the oldest sources available and translates those. Do you mean how do I personally know? I do not, but I will rely on the experts in the field. That is what we all do every day of our lives.How do you know a Bible is correctly translated or not?
Corpus Of English Translations:
"Which sittith on the cumpas of erthe, and the dwelleris therof ben as locustis; which stretchith forth heuenes as nouyt, and spredith abrood tho as a tabernacle to dwelle" (1382 Wycliffe Bible).
"That he sytteth vpon the Circle of the worlde, and that all the inhabitours of the worlde are in coparison of him, but as greshoppers: That he spredeth out the heaues as a coueringe, that he stretcheth them out, as. a tent to dwell in" (1535 Coverdale Bible).
"That he sytteth vpon the circle of the worlde, and that al the inhabytours of the worlde are in comparison of him, but as greshoppers: That he spredeth out the heauens as a coueryng, that he stretcheth them out, as a tent to dwell in" (1537 Matthew's Bible)
"that he sytteth vpon the circle of the worlde, and that all the inhabitoures of the worlde are in comparyson of him, but as greshopers. That he spredeth out the heauens as a couerynge, that he stretched them out, as a tent to dwell in" (1539 Great Bible).
"He sitteth vpon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grashoppers, hee stretcheth out ye heauens, as a curtaine, and spreadeth them out, as a tent to dwell in" (1560 Geneva Bible).
"It is he that sitteth vpon the circle of the world, whole inhabiters are [in comparison of him] but as grasshoppers: *he spreadeth out the heauens as a couering, he stretcheth them out as a tent to dwell in" (1568 Bishop's Bible).
"It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in" (Douay-Rheims Bible).
“It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in” (KJV).
"He sitting upon the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants as locusts; he stretching out the heavens as fine cloth, and he will extend them as a tent to dwell in" (1876 Julia E. Smith Bible).
“It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in” (NKJV).
“It is He who sits upon the circle of the earth,
and the inhabitants are as grasshoppers,
who stretches out the heavens as a curtain,
and spreads them out as a tent to dwell in” (MEV).
“God sits above the circle of the earth.
The people below seem like grasshoppers to him!
He spreads out the heavens like a curtain
and makes his tent from them” (NLT).
“It is he who sits above the circle of the earth,
and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers;
who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
and spreads them like a tent to dwell in” (RSV).
“It is he who sits above the circle of the earth,
and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers;
who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
and spreads them like a tent to dwell in” (ESV).
"God is enthroned above the circle of the earth;
its inhabitants are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like thin cloth
and spreads them out like a tent to live in" (HCSB).
"He who sits on the circle of the earth, even its dwellers are like grasshoppers; He who stretches the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in" (GLT).
"He who is sitting on the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants [are] as grasshoppers, He who is stretching out as a thin thing the heavens, And spreadeth them as a tent to dwell in" (YLT).
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
and spreads them out like a tent to live in" (NIV'11).
"It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in" (NASB).
"The one who is enthroned above the vault of the earth,
its inhabitants like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a veil
and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in" (NABRE).
"It is he who sits above the circle of the earth,
and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers;
who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
and spreads them like a tent to live in" (NRSV).
"God sits high above the round ball of earth.
The people look like mere ants.
He stretches out the skies like a canvas—
yes, like a tent canvas to live under" (MSG).
"It is He that sitteth above the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are like chagavim (grasshoppers); that stretcheth out Shomayim like a curtain, and spreadeth them out like an ohel to dwell in" (OJB).
"He who sits above the circle of the earth —
for whom its inhabitants appear like grasshoppers —
stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
spreads them out like a tent to live in" (CBJ).
Of course the most updated Bible here that has been receiving lots of good reports from scholars is the 2014 MEV:
"It is He who sits upon the circle of the earth,
and the inhabitants are as grasshoppers,
who stretches out the heavens as a curtain,
and spreads them out as a tent to dwell in."
The most reputable sources say it means globe. We don't care about atheist sources since they are rudely bias and full of corruptions.One goes to the oldest sources available and translates those. Do you mean how do I personally know? I do not, but I will rely on the experts in the field. That is what we all do every day of our lives.
A clear-minded read of the Bible does not condone slavery. William Wilberforce proved this long ago and it was his sermons from the Bible that abolished slavery in both Europe and America. But this topic isn't about that. Its about the Biblical shape of the earth which you so forcefully assume teaches flat earth. We have been through all this and yesterday I proved that the liberal scholar you linked up lied by claiming that chuwg translated to gI notice that the MSG stands out as being extremely forced. The writers of that time were almost certainly flat Earth believers. When that was written believing in a flat Earth was not limited to the uneducated. That verse and others indicate that was the beliefs of the area at that time. Why make such a big deal of it? They also believed that slavery was fine. Are you going to go out and purchase a human being?
Creationist don't believe in flat earth which is why I included the Henry Morris Study Bible along with other well known Bible Commentaries.So like creationism today.
A clear-minded read of the Bible does not condone slavery. William Wilberforce proved this long ago and it was his sermons from the Bible that abolished slavery in both Europe and America. But this topic isn't about that. Its about the Biblical shape of the earth which you so forcefully assume teaches flat earth. We have been through all this and yesterday I proved that the liberal scholar you linked up lied by claiming that chuwg translated to gyron when it was actually translated to both gyro and gyros. I read that article from atheist Richard Carrier and could not believe the arrogance of his ignorance. He does not understand any of the verses he's trying to belittle and Greek is definitely not a field of study he should be writing on.I notice that the MSG stands out as being extremely forced. The writers of that time were almost certainly flat Earth believers. When that was written believing in a flat Earth was not limited to the uneducated. That verse and others indicate that was the beliefs of the area at that time. Why make such a big deal of it? They also believed that slavery was fine. Are you going to go out and purchase a human being?
No, those are merely comments about the Bible, generally by non-pros. I had to laugh when I saw Henry Morris on your list.The most reputable sources say it means globe. We don't care about atheist sources since they are rudely bias and full of corruptions.
Bible Commentaries for Isaiah 40:22,
Jamieson, Fausset & Brown: Commentary on the Whole Bible,
“It is he--rather, connected to the last verse, Have ye not known?--have ye not understood Him that sitteth...? (vs.26) [MAUDER]. Circle--applicable to the globular form of the earth, above which, and the vault of the sky around it, above it, He sits. For “upon” translate “above.” as grasshoppers--or locusts in His sight (Num.13:33), as He looks down from on high (Ps.33:13, 14; 113:4-6).”
Matthew Henry's Commentary,
"Now that which is here said of God is (1.) That he has command of all creatures. The heaven and the earth themselves are under his management: He sits upon the circle, or globe, of the earth, v. 22. He that has the special residence of his glory in the upper world maintains a dominion over the lower world, gives law to it, and directs all the motions of it to his own glory. He sits undisturbed upon the earth, and establishes it. He is still stretching out the heavens, his power and providence keep them still stretched out, and will do so till the comes that they shall be rolled together like a scroll. He spreads them out as easily as we draw a curtain to and fro, opening these curtains in the morning and drawing them close again at night. And the heaven is to this earth as a tent to dwell in; it is a canopy drawn over our heads, et quod tegit omnia coelum --- and it encircles all. --Ovid. See Ps.104:2 (2.) That the children of men, even the greatest and mightiest, are as nothing before him. The numerous inhabitants of this earth are in his eye as grasshoppers in ours, so little and inconsiderable, of such small value, of such little use, and so easily crushed. Proud men's lifting up themselves is but like the grasshopper's leap; in an instant they must stoop down to the earth again. If the spies thought themselves as grasshoppers before the sons of Anak (Num.13:33), what are we before the great God? Grasshoppers live but awhile, and live carelessly, not like the ant; so do the most men. (3.) That those who appear and act against him, how formidable soever they may be to their fellow-creatures, will certainly be humble and brought down by the mighty hand of God."
The Bible Knowledge Commentary (1985 Edition)
“God’s sovereign control over the world (40:21-26). 40:21-22. From His sovereign position in heaven God watches over His created universe. You (used four times in v.21) refers to people in general. The force of the first question, for example, is “Doesn’t everyone know this?” (cf. v. 28) The Lord is like a king sitting enthroned above the circle (hug, “horizon,” which is circular; cf. Job 26:10: Prov.8:27) of the earth and over His people who by comparison seem like mere grasshoppers. The heavens (the sky) are pictured as spread out like a tent for Him to live in (cf.Ps.104:2). Isaiah was not presenting a detailed idea of God’s abode. He was merely using imagery that his readers would easily understand.”
Henry Morris Study Bible,
“40:22 circle of the earth. Hebrew khug, translated “compassed” in Job 26:10 and “compass” in Proverbs 8:27. All three, in context, clearly refer to the spherical shape of the earth.
40:22 stretcheth out the heavens. This phrase is possibly a reference to the expanding universe, as envisioned by modern astronomers. There are numerous references in Scripture to the “stretching-out” or “spreading-out” of the heavens (space) when God created the universe. See, for example, Job 9:8; Psalm 104:2; Isaiah 42:5; 44:24; 51:13; Jeremiah 10:12. Alternatively, the “heavens” referred to here may refer simply to the atmospheric heavens, spread out like a curtain or “tent to dwell in” around a circle of the earth. This atmospheric “tent”, refracting and spreading light over the hemisphere, is sharply distinct from the darkness outside.”
Matthew Poole's Commentary,
"That sitteth, as a judge or governor upon his throne,
upon the circle of the earth; or, above the circle &c.; far above this round earth, even in the highest heavens; from whence he looketh down upon the earth, where men appear to him like grasshoppers. He alludes to one that looks down upon the earth below him from some high place. As here we have the circle of the earth, so elsewhere we read of the circle of heaven, Job 22:14, and of the circle of the deep, or sea, Proverbs 8:27, because the form of the heaven, and earth, and sea is circular and round, as is evident both from sense, and from the principles of philosophy.
As grasshoppers; small and contemptible in his sight. Compare Numbers 13:33.
Stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in, for the benefit of the earth and of mankind, that all parts might partake of its comfortable influences. See Poole "Job 9:8"; See Poole "Psalm 104:2". "
4th century St.Ambrose,
"Scripture points out what is impossible for men, for God declares: 'Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand and weighed the heavens with his palm and the bulk of the earth in his hand? Who hath weighed the mountains in scales and the rocks and the groves in a balance?' And further on: 'Who sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts, who stretcheth out the heavens as an arch?' Who, then, ventures to put his knowledge in the same plane with that of God?” (St.Ambrose, "Hexameron" The Fathers Of The Church series translated by John J. Savage, p.231).
Wow! You are bound and determined to shoot yourself in the foot. If God can ban plaid, why couldn't be ban slavery? Instead he endorsed it by telling his people where they could buy their life long slaves from.A clear-minded read of the Bible does not condone slavery. William Wilberforce proved this long ago and it was his sermons from the Bible that abolished slavery in both Europe and America. But this topic isn't about that. Its about the Biblical shape of the earth which you so forcefully assume teaches flat earth. We have been through all this and yesterday I proved that the liberal scholar you linked up lied by claiming that chuwg translated to gyron when it was actually translated to both gyro and gyros. I read that article from atheist Richard Carrier and could not believe the arrogance of his ignorance. He does not understand any of the verses he's trying to belittle and Greek is definitely not a field of study he should be writing on.
What the Jews may or may not believed about the shape of the earth during the OT period is completely irrelevant. Biblical prophecy is not subject to Jewish opinion. God revealed prophecy to the Prophet and not by the Prophet's own ideas or interpretations.
Furthermore, humorously speaking, gyron is not even a Greek word! But he makes up lies so you will believe him and be deceived. He seems to think Isa.40:22 reads something as of a triangle (gyron) of the earth
View attachment 255207
So this is how he reads Isa.40:22 in Septuagint
This is why liberal scholars can never be trusted. I've spent many years correcting these liars -- enough time to know they always lie.
You do make one solid point. The MSG is a horrible translation.
Henry Morris is a very well known creationist that you claimed believe in flat earth. I said:No, those are merely comments about the Bible, generally by non-pros. I had to laugh when I saw Henry Morris on your list.
By the 1st century A.D., flat earth beliefs were only held by the most uneducated people of Jewish, Greek and Roman societies.
So like creationism today.
All evil and wickedness will be forever abolished when Christ returns.Wow! You are bound and determined to shoot yourself in the foot. If God can ban plaid, why couldn't be ban slavery? Instead he endorsed it by telling his people where they could buy their life long slaves from.
And you proved nothing except for your ignorance of Greek at best.
Try again.
Henry Morris is a very well known creationist that you claimed believe in flat earth. I said:
Your reply:
My reply:
Henry Morris Study Bible,
“40:22 circle of the earth. Hebrew khug, translated “compassed” in Job 26:10 and “compass” in Proverbs 8:27. All three, in context, clearly refer to the spherical shape of the earth.
40:22 stretcheth out the heavens. This phrase is possibly a reference to the expanding universe, as envisioned by modern astronomers. There are numerous references in Scripture to the “stretching-out” or “spreading-out” of the heavens (space) when God created the universe. See, for example, Job 9:8; Psalm 104:2; Isaiah 42:5; 44:24; 51:13; Jeremiah 10:12. Alternatively, the “heavens” referred to here may refer simply to the atmospheric heavens, spread out like a curtain or “tent to dwell in” around a circle of the earth. This atmospheric “tent”, refracting and spreading light over the hemisphere, is sharply distinct from the darkness outside.”
Now you see that YEC does not teach flat earth. Henry Morris was not by any means considered an amateur creationist. He had over six decades in the field and has lead YEC to what it is today. This Bible contains his interpretation of Isaiah 40:22 which is upheld by all other Young Earth Creationists as well as all the Christian priests, Bishops and Pastors before him.
As for the rest of the commentaries that you called amateur, Jamieson, Fausset & Brown: Commentary on the Whole Bible is a highly academic commentary on the Bible and probably the overall best you can get. The Matthew Henry's Commentary is an all time classic which is by and large the most well used commentary there is, though today a little outdated. But there is always a place for outdated commentaries and when we speak of basic doctrine and simple to understand verses like Isa.40:22, there is no way this commentary is gonna mess it up. Then lastly I quoted from 4th century St.Ambrose who is considered one of the most important church fathers who ever lived. His whole life was dedicated to Christ and he toiled longer than people like St.Augustine to learn the Scriptures well. In fact, Bishop Ambrose converted Augustine to Christ which was no easy feat if you know Augustine's stance of Christianity before his conversion. Yet you would say this 4th century Bishop knew nothing of the Scriptures in which he dedicated his entire life to. Don't you find it arrogant to say such a thing when no atheist has ever attained the knowledge that Ambrose had of Scripture? Ambrose was a true holy man. He stood up and scolded Roman Emperor Theodosios I for unnecessarily slaughtering 7000 people during the revolt in Thessalonica. Ambrose saw that Theodosios' decision to put 7000 people to death to be too extreme a punishment for the crime. Ambrose criticized Theodosios saying that a Christian Emperor should of had more mercy. Ambrose went as far to excommunicate Emperor Theodosios for a short period of time. In the end, Theodosios caves and accepts penance and accepts a public show of remorse. From here on out Emperor would develop a friendly relationship with Ambrose as his counsel in matters of faith.
So St.Ambrose, Bishop of Milan, was not just any Bishop. He might not have been perfect and having perfect knowledge of Scripture, but compared to minds today on general Theology he dwarfs today's scholars.
Seriously? Even I know that Greek nouns have different endings depending upon usage. You appear to be picking at nits and demonstrating a lack of understand of Greek. When the base is the same except for the ending that is a good sign that they are all the same "noun", they are just in different "tenses". Gyros, gyro, and gyron look to all be in the same family:All evil and wickedness will be forever abolished when Christ returns.
And how did I show ignorance about Greek? You failed to mention how? Are you still trying to tell me that the word translated from chuwg in the LXX was really gyron? I hope you are joking at this point.
We don't care about atheist sources since they are rudely bias and full of corruptions.
Does the word ‘atheist’ mean something different to you than what it does for everyone else?
Dang it that's right. I forgot to ask again.
@FEZZILLA where is your evidence for your claims about atheists starting the Flat Earth beleifs?
I do think that he may have the same sort of definition of "atheists" that the ancient Romans had. They called those that did not worship their gods "atheists". So the first Christians were called atheists by the Romans.
First off this is not deviating from the topic. You made this claim multiple times. Second I answered our question in my previous post.I am not going to respond to posts that deviate from the topic. You did not answer my question and now you want to deviate from the topic.
I know more than the source you used. I know that gyron is not a Greek word. It was not used in Isaiah 40:22. You wikipedia link says nothing to support your dubious position.Seriously? Even I know that Greek nouns have different endings depending upon usage. You appear to be picking at nits and demonstrating a lack of understand of Greek. When the base is the same except for the ending that is a good sign that they are all the same "noun", they are just in different "tenses". Gyros, gyro, and gyron look to all be in the same family:
Ancient Greek nouns - Wikipedia
What is wrong with "gyron"? I found a source that studied the languages and history of the time. I seriously doubt if you know more than the source that I used. You need something a lot more powerful than your unsupported claims.
I didn't say I had a Master's degree. I said I have mastered translations. I have a self-taught theologian. But my dedication and discipline have proven to be every bit as reliable as a Ph.D. This is why I tend to make friends with professional scholars as I speak their language. In my perspective, a Ph.D means absolutely nothing unless its backed up with real knowable knowledge. I can find plenty of Ph.Ds who disagree with your source. Big deal. This is not some partisan political game. Knowledge is knowable and its known and demonstrated by those who possess it.First off this is not deviating from the topic. You made this claim multiple times. Second I answered our question in my previous post.
Let me give it to you again. Gyro, gryos, and gyron all have the same root. The ending of nouns varies in ancient Greek. To me it looks like they all may be variations of the same noun. You need to demonstrate that in ancient Greek gyron is an incorrect term. Your word alone is insufficient. Though you clam to have a masters in that area the person that I relied upon can prove that he has a PhD. I think that a provable PhD tops a claimed Masters.
I know more than the source you used. I know that gyron is not a Greek word. It was not used in Isaiah 40:22. You wikipedia link says nothing to support your dubious position.
The real word used in the Septuagint is gyros (Isaiah 40:22). But you still want to beat the dead horse and stand by your weak position that its gyron because you want so badly to trust your atheist sources. Glad I'm not an atheist. I hate being lied to!
Gyron
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the-meaning-of-the-word/gyron.html
Definition and origin of Gyron
Definition of GYRON
"a heraldic charge of triangular form having one side at the edge of the field and the opposite angle usually at the fess point."
"History and Etymology for gyron
Middle French giron wedge-shaped piece of material, from Old French, of Germanic origin; akin to Old High German gēro wedge-shaped object"
Gyron is not a Greek word nor was it ever used in the LXX for Isa.40:22.
The real word is gyros.
Septuagint: Isaiah 40:22,
ὁ κατέχων τὸν γῦρον τῆς γῆς, καὶ οἱ ἐνοικοῦντες ἐν αὐτῇ ὡς ἀκρίδες, ὁ στήσας ὡς καμάραν τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ διατείνας ὡς σκηνὴν κατοικεῖν
Here are Greek definitions of gyros, gyro, gyre.
Definition of gyros
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/γύρος#Greek
"Noun
γύρος • (gýros) m (plural γύροι)
1. bout, round, perimeter, rim
2. brim (of a hat)
3. gyro, doner kebab
4. lap, round, tour (sport)
5. tour, turn (work)"
Definition of gyro
gyro (rotating mechanism) - Memidex dictionary/thesaurus
"gyro (rotating mechanism)
Definition:
rotating mechanism in the form of a universally mounted spinning wheel that offers resistance to turns in any direction
Class:
artifact noun (man-made objects)
Plural:
gyros"
No sign of any gyron variant.
Gyro is also gyre.
Definition of gyre.
gyre | Origin and meaning of gyre by Online Etymology Dictionary
Definition of gyre
the definition of gyre
"noun
a ring or circle.
a circular course or motion.
Oceanography . a ringlike system of ocean currents rotating clockwise in the Northern Hemisphereand counterclockwise in the Southern Hemisphere."
Compare gyre with chuwg.
The New Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible,
H2329. חוּג Chuwg, khoog; from 2328; a circle:--circle [1x], circuit [1x], compass [1x]."
1a. chuwg = circle (Isaiah 40:22).
1b. gyre = circle
2a. chuwg = circuit (Isaiah 40:22).
2b. gyre = a circular course or motion
3a. chuwg = compass (Job 26:10, Isaiah 40:22).
3b.gyre= Oceanography . a ringlike system of ocean currents rotating clockwise in the Northern Hemisphereand counterclockwise in the Southern Hemisphere."
View attachment 255219
Proverbs 8:27 from Latin Vulgate:
"quando praeparabat caelos aderam quando certa lege et gyro vallabat abyssos."
Word: gyro
Latin Definition of gyro
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...qoEuV-5AamhFrD5urdpvAmjhvETguk1pQ7sYuuQZ5-k9s
Isaiah 40:22 from Latin Vulgate:
Word: gyrus
Latin Definition of gyrus
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...jvQHlv71wa8Egb4VPQlMbipbLwGV-MKe7RlhCzk3eNH5c
Phrase: gyrus terrarum
Latin definition of gyrus terrarum
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/d...3RbUZVfP-yNmYYCcvqVnsanLs9XstGJLMcyeDJrCbKldM
"globe of the earth"!!
Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon, H2329: "חוּג m. a circle, sphere, used of the arch or vault of the sky, Pro.8:27; Job 22:14; of the world, Isa.40:22."
View attachment 255218
I still do not see flat earth.
I didn't say I had a Master's degree. I said I have mastered translations. I have a self-taught theologian. But my dedication and discipline have proven to be every bit as reliable as a Ph.D. This is why I tend to make friends with professional scholars as I speak their language. In my perspective, a Ph.D means absolutely nothing unless its backed up with real knowable knowledge. I can find plenty of Ph.Ds who disagree with your source. Big deal. This is not some partisan political game. Knowledge is knowable and its known and demonstrated by those who possess it.
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