Isaac or Ishmael?

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

GOD is capable of everything, the point is he does not need to take human form.He does not need to be in his creation, that degrades him to be part of his creation.He sits on the throne and rules.He does not need our permission to do anything and he does not need family aroung him especially human family.

God is capable of everything. If He wishes to take a human form, He will take it. How can we stop Him from taking an human form?

 

[azri]

Are you saying that to be human is to be evil?

To be human is to be weak.

 

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

To be human is to be weak.

Edited.

 

[azri]

Carefull

 

[Montalban]

Also "insane", like Muhammad.

But when God takes a human form, He will not be weak and insane.

Take Christ for example. He was not insane as Muhammad. Because Muhammad was a man and Christ was God.

Well he was tricked by Satan!


A good site is
http://www.answering-islam.org/Bailey/deity_qa.html
or
http://www.carm.org/islam/obj_Jesus_son.htm

 

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

I am sorry. I have edited that post. I request Montlaban to edit my quote too.

 

[azri]

When people have the idea of God can be weak, they will start thinking of God can be cruel or evil. Subhanallah.

 

[Montalban]

When people have the idea of God can be weak, they will start thinking of God can be cruel or evil.

You believe in a cruel and decptive god already.

See links
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html

 

[markie]

Really? by which criteria did I not fill in your defintion of a Christian? Its true, that I have a high respect for Islam & other non-Christian religions, & do keep an open mind about supposed "Bible Truths". I am curious how did you come to conclude I am not Christian?
So you do believe the Bible is inerrant or not?
I suspect that Mohammed's message is as much corrupted as Jesus' message by people trying to do their best, but still just human.

I didn't say you weren't a Christian and I didn't mean to imply it. That's really none of my business it's between you and God, I was just trying to answer your post. I am sorry to say that the bible is not as infallible as most Christian's think but it's more infallible than the Muslims think. It's just that if I see a word or phrase in the bible and can't find a word that means the same as or similar to it in my NASC exhaustive concordance or Strong's concordance I don't think it should be there. That part when God told Abraham to take his only son to the mountain really doesn't make sense because Abraham had 2 sons. The word for one implies beloved and that's the word they should have used and that thou lovest just sounds redundant and it's not in the concordance either. It should read take your beloved son to the mountain.
There is a word for Isaac though and that's who he offered to sacrifice. I have seen this before and wondered about it but I would rather focus on Jesus Christ and the new testament because Jesus is the covenant. I respect the Muslims too but that doesn't change the truth of the word of God and if Islam is a false religion I'm going to try to show it is, but as long as nobody will admit to the possibility of being wrong about something we're not going to get anywhere.

 

[azri]

You believe in a cruel and decptive god already.

I dont believe that god can be weak, cruel and deceptive or evil.
Subhanallah

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

 

[Montalban]

I dont believe that god can be weak, cruel and deceptive or evil.

He certainly chooses very very very weak people!
Somehow you do believe though that he'd allow Muhammed to make morals that are based no on some over-arching belief system, but what is relative/legal.

 

[azri]

He certainly chooses very very very weak people!
Somehow you do believe though that he'd allow Muhammed to make morals that are based no on some over-arching belief system, but what is relative/legal.

No.

 

[Montalban]

No.

that's what every Moslem so far has argued (and the two Baha'i) that his marriage to Aisha was fine because it was 'legal'

That his approval of the murder of PoWs was okay becuase the rest of his followers 'approved' of it.

 

[markie]

I never claimed that the verses in the Bible prophecizing the prophet Muhammad's arrival were taken out completely. I said that they were there and that Christians were not realizing it. If you want me to I can post the verses in the OT which prove that there was also a covenant with the decendents of Ishmael and that God had transfered his kingdom from the decendents of Isaac to the decendents of Ishmael.

I would like to see them.

 

[azri]

No. He didnt choose very very very weak people.

[font=Verdana,Arial]Muhammad is the apostle of Allah. and those who are with him are [/font]strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong;[font=Verdana,Arial] it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward. (Qur'an [/font][font=Verdana,Arial]48:29)[/font]

 

[markie]

While it is true that Muslims do not believe that God can be everywhere and nowhere. God is believed to have a shape and location. He is sitting on his throne above the the Seven Heavens. He is not, however considered to have a human body. There is nothing like God, and he does not resemble his creation so we cannot say that he looks like us. I think that Christians take their evidence for God resembling a human from the verse in the Bible which says that God created man in his own image. I apologize if I am wrong about this. But we Muslims take that verse to mean that God created man in his image in that we have the ability of free will just like God does. Unlike angels who do not posses this quality of being able to choose. They have to obey the commandments of God because they were created as such.

Satan was an angel before he sinned do you believe it was the will of God for him to siin? God is a Spirit john 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. The image of God is a spiritual image, we were created with that spiritual image inside us.

 

[markie]

GOD is capable of everything, the point is he does not need to take human form.He does not need to be in his creation, that degrades him to be part of his creation.He sits on the throne and rules.He does not need our permission to do anything and he does not need family aroung him especially human family.

Why would that degrade Him? Sometimes I wonder if you all think loves you.

 

[rosenherman]

Having read most of the posts, it seems that I'd much rather have people of no vested interest in whether it was Isaac or Ishmael who was sacrificed.

Is it safe to assume that most of you here believe in an inerrant Bible or Quran? I believe the most credible & balanced view would come from a well versed liberal Christian & Muslim.

Of those who post here: How many sincerely believe that the Quran or Bible that you believe in is not inerrant?

I don't believe the Bible is inerrant. I can't quote a particular reason for it, although I admit Paul's instructions about women strike me as more from his own point of view than from God's. I just don't think God has chosen to keep his word, in all it's translations, pure. I'm sure most of it is as He wrote it, through the prophets and disciples. We are to depend on the Holy Spirit for interpretation, not how we understand it.

 

[tulc]

No. He didnt choose very very very weak people.

Well speaking on behalf of weak people everywhere I'm going to have to disagree. He does indeed choose weak people. He choose's weak people from all over the world to confound the wise and strong because we are made strong in Him. This is one of the things that drew me (and keeps me) a Christian.
tulc(weak, slow and annoying! I'm a triple threat)

 

[Muslim]

Satan was an angel before he sinned do you believe it was the will of God for him to siin? God is a Spirit john 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. The image of God is a spiritual image, we were created with that spiritual image inside us.

Muslims do not believe that Satan was an angel. We believe he was of an entirely different race of beings called Jinns. Satan was the father of all Jinns and because of the level of piety that he had, God elevated him to the status of angels and allowed him to walk around freely in heaven like the other angels. But he is by no means an angel. He does not posess the qualities of an angel such as their lack of free will. Angels cannot disobey God. It is not possible for them to do otherwise then what is commanded of them from God. When God told the angels to bow down before Adam, all of them did. But Satan didn't because he had the ability to choose and he chose to disobey God due to his pride. He felt that since Adam was made from dirt and he was made from a smokeless fire, that he was the superior being and therefore should not have to bow down to Adam.

Holy Quran
Chapter 2, Verse 34. And behold, We said to the angels: "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down. Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith.