Is YEC science? Is is even really a theory?

[Hans Blaster]

Creationism is history

Or should be, but only in the "your history, baby" kind of quip that comes before the action hero blows it up.

and belongs in history class, not science class.

The existence of creationism is a historical fact and that's exactly where I learned about it -- US History in HS.

Why is it that, when Darwin does something, it's HISTORY, but when God does something, it's THEOLOGY?

What Darwin did (go on the Beagle, study pigeon breeding, examine the "tree of life", write his books) is history what he discovered (evolution) is a science.

The contents of "creationism" are theology, the study of its impact and generation by men is part of history.

TL;DR version: The actions of the proponents of the two ideas are part of history and are studied as such. The ideas that are propagated are not history. The creation idea is theology; the evolution idea is science. (Creation science and similar abominations are theology in pseudoscientific clothing.)

 

[Diamond72]

Please write down the Hamiltonian of this spiritual physics.

What is: "Hamiltonian"? Is that a play? Or are you talking about Max Planck?

Planck said in 1944, "As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent spirit [orig. geist]. This spirit is the matrix of all matter."[40]

Planck argued that the concept of God is important to both religion and science, but in different ways: "Both religion and science require a belief in God. For believers, God is in the beginning, and for physicists He is at the end of all considerations … To the former He is the foundation, to the latter, the crown of the edifice of every generalized world view".[41]

 

[Diamond72]

Discredited geological theory.

It was discredited by a Christian geologist in terms of gradualism. I just gave you two examples from leading news stories about Catastrophism. Even Gould's theory on punctuated equilibrium has it's roots in catastrophism. It simply means rapid change. Only Stephen Jay Gould was an American paleontologist, evolutionary biologist, and historian of science. He was not a geologist. Although he studied fossils which is geology. Even we see a lot of catastrophism in geology. Change can be very rapid. So it is far from discredited as you would like to believe.

In case you do not know what we are talking about: punctuated equilibrium, is a view of evolution by which species undergo long periods of stasis followed by rapid changes over relatively short periods instead of continually accumulating slow changes over millions of years.

Isn't it amazing how Christian atheists sound sometimes? They like to prove what they were trying to disprove. Either way, if you seek to prove God or disprove God, you have to look at and study the evidence.

 

[Diamond72]

Or should be, but only in the "your history, baby" kind of quip that comes before the action hero blows it up.

Did you ever study the History of Ancient Mesopotamia? Bishop Ussher's book written 500 years ago is a very valid study of History for the last 6,000 years. Starting with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. In the Tigris Euphrates River valley. These are real people. As Moses, Abraham & Noah are all real people.

History, and artifacts began 40,000 years ago with fishing hooks and sowing needles made out of bone. This is when man came up out of Africa and moved into the colder climate north of Africa. He took over Neanderthal's food supply. But then something new happened. Man became a food producer. Adam did not have to hunt, he could produce his own food. Yet we are told that God planted the garden in Eden. This was paradise lost and today we are all trying to get back to the paradise we were intended to live in and be a part of.

 

[Diamond72]

Again, not true. It is archeology that demonstrates that the whole exodus story (massive departure, generation in the desert, conquest of Canaan) is not correct. Sure they've found some of the later kings of Israel (well after David), but nothing even as far back as David is documented.

There was a whole temple built by David and his son Solomon 3,000 years ago. The Muslims want to challenge ownership of the temple mount. Recently they were working on the drainage there. They had a pile of dirt and the archeology eventually got permission to sift through it. They found an arrowhead that documents who and when the mount was attacked. There is a lot of archeology to work on within the old Jerusalem,

The Western Wall, also known as the “Wailing Wall” or the “Kotel”, is the most religious site in the world for the Jewish people. Located in the Old City of Jerusalem, it is the last remaining outer wall of the ancient Jewish temple, and an incredibly important site of modern Israeli history.

 

[Tinker Grey]

There was a whole temple built by David and his son Solomon 3,000 years ago. The Muslims want to challenge ownership of the temple mount. Recently they were working on the drainage there. They had a pile of dirt and the archeology eventually got permission to sift through it. They found an arrowhead that documents who and when the mount was attacked. There is a lot of archeology to work on within the old Jerusalem,

The Western Wall, also known as the “Wailing Wall” or the “Kotel”, is the most religious site in the world for the Jewish people. Located in the Old City of Jerusalem, it is the last remaining outer wall of the ancient Jewish temple, and an incredibly important site of modern Israeli history.

It is the remains of the temple built by Herod the Great, not Solomon.

 

[Diamond72]

It is the remains of the temple built by Herod the Great, not Solomon.

There is a small section of Solomon's temple. God gives us evidence for the work He has done millions and billions of years ago and you want to quibble over what happened in the last 6,000 years? Check out the

History Carved in Stone at Istanbul Archaeology Museums, Turkey​

History Carved in Stone at Istanbul Archaeology Museums, Turkey | Will Fly for Food

The Istanbul Archaeology Museums is comprised of three museums — The Museum of the Ancient Orient, the Tiled Pavilion, and the Archaeological Museum.

www.willflyforfood.net

They have over a million artifacts that for the most part have always been a part of a collection somewhere.

 

[Diamond72]

Creationism is history and belongs in history class, not science class.

My history book in high school was written 100 years ago. Bishop Usshers book was written 500 years ago. If they can not discredit them, chances are they are not going to. Even the Bible: generation after generation has tried to discredit the word of God for over 4,000 years and every one of them failed. Now we have a whole new generation who will fail in their attempt to discredit God. God does not need us to defend HIm. He can defend HImself. We are just here for the show.

 

[AV1611VET]

My history book in high school was written 100 years ago. Bishop Usshers book was written 500 years ago. If they can not discredit them, chances are they are not going to. Even the Bible: generation after generation has tried to discredit the word of God for over 4,000 years and every one of them failed. Now we have a whole new generation who will fail in their attempt to discredit God. God does not need us to defend HIm. He can defend HImself. We are just here for the show.

Yup.

Our graveyards are full of people who tried in vain to discredit God and His word.

 

[Tinker Grey]

There is a small section of Solomon's temple.

Cite? Rabbis hold a tradition (note the word) that the Western wall was built on Solomon's temple's foundation, but there is no archeological evidence for this. Western Wall - Wikipedia

 

[Diamond72]

Cite? Rabbis hold a tradition (note the word) that the Western wall was built on Solomon's temple's foundation, but there is no archeological evidence for this. Western Wall - Wikipedia

You are looking at the Muslim article. Read the article on "Solomon's Temple, also known as the First Temple (Hebrew: בֵּית-הַמִּקְדָּשׁ הָרִאשׁוֹן‎, Bēṯ hamMīqdāš hāRīʾšōn, transl. 'First House of the Sanctum'), is a Temple in Jerusalem believed to have existed between the 10th and 6th centuries BCE . Its presumed existence is largely based on narratives in the Hebrew Bible, in which it was commissioned by the King Solomon of the biblical legend before being destroyed during the siege of Jerusalem by King Nebuchadnezzar II of the Neo-Babylonian Empire in 587 BCE.[1] Most modern scholars agree that the First Temple existed on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem by the time of the Babylonian siege.

Solomon's Temple - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Western Wall | Definition, History, & Facts

Western Wall, Hebrew Ha-Kotel Ha-Maʿaravi, also called Wailing Wall, in the Old City of Jerusalem, a place of prayer and pilgrimage sacred to the Jewish people. It is the only remains of the retaining wall surrounding the Temple Mount, the site of the First and Second Temples of Jerusalem, held...

www.britannica.com

Ussher chronology - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

1. "Creation to Abraham's migration." This section is fairly easy to calculate, using the chronological data in Genesis 5 and 11, which gives an unbroken male lineage, with numbers of years, from the creation to Abraham being called out of Ur of the Chaldeans. Ussher used the chronology found in the Masoretic text instead of the alternative chronologies found in the Septuagint and Samaritan Pentateuch. Ussher fixed this period as 2082 years, from 4004 to 1922 BC.
2. "Abraham's migration to Solomon's temple." Ussher wrote that the time from Abraham leaving Haran to the Exodus was 430 years (based on Abraham's descendants suffering a period of 400 years of persecution, commencing 30 years after Abraham left Haran)[5] 1 Kings 6 states that 480 years elapsed from the Exodus to the beginning of construction of Solomon's temple in the fourth year of Solomon's reign. Thus the temple foundations were laid 910 years after Abraham left Haran; these 910 years spanned from 1922 to 1012 BC.
3. "Period of the temple laid to the Babylonian captivity." This period is the most difficult to calculate, due to repeated difficulties in correlating the regnal years of the kingdoms of Judah and Israel. The simple addition of the reigns of Judah's kings results in a total of 430 years, but by positing a few overlapping reigns, Ussher shortened this to 424 years: 1012 to 588 BC.

 

[Diamond72]

Temple Mount Sifting Project - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Diamond72]

Our graveyards are full of people who tried in vain to discredit God and His word.

They do not put much effort into their attempt. I can spend days, weeks, months, and years on my research and study. They usually put three or five minutes into their effort. Then they quote a skeptic or scoffer who put no effort in anything with no regard for the truth.

 

[Hans Blaster]

What is: "Hamiltonian"? Is that a play? Or are you talking about Max Planck?

If you don't know, maybe you should stop making claims about quantum physics.

 

[Hans Blaster]

[confusion of geological catastrophism and evolution deleted.]

In case you do not know what we are talking about: punctuated equilibrium, is a view of evolution by which species undergo long periods of stasis followed by rapid changes over relatively short periods instead of continually accumulating slow changes over millions of years.

Isn't it amazing how Christian atheists sound sometimes? They like to prove what they were trying to disprove. Either way, if you seek to prove God or disprove God, you have to look at and study the evidence.

1. I know what punctuated equilibrium is (I described it simply above)

2. Nothing you described in that paragraph is in anyway "Christian".

 

[Hans Blaster]

Did you ever study the History of Ancient Mesopotamia?

I have a little. FIrst as part of world history in Jr. and Sr. High. Then over the last few years I've taken an interest in the subject. That's why I recognize your errors.

Bishop Ussher's book written 500 years ago is a very valid study of History for the last 6,000 years

Not really. It is a mashup of unverified biblical claims and more solid history that meet up somewhere in the iron age. There are far better places to look even for the YEC-style history than a 500 year-old book.

. Starting with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. In the Tigris Euphrates River valley. These are real people. As Moses, Abraham & Noah are all real people.

None of those people are verified by history. They *only* appear in the bible.

History, and artifacts began 40,000 years ago with fishing hooks and sowing needles made out of bone. This is when man came up out of Africa and moved into the colder climate north of Africa. He took over Neanderthal's food supply. But then something new happened. Man became a food producer. Adam did not have to hunt, he could produce his own food. Yet we are told that God planted the garden in Eden. This was paradise lost and today we are all trying to get back to the paradise we were intended to live in and be a part of.

This is just a weird, muddled mess. The 6000-year "garden of eden" timeline and real archeology (40000 year old artefacts) just DO NOT MESH. It seems like you really don't understand either of them.

 

[Diamond72]

There are far better places to look even for the YEC-style history than a 500 year-old book.

No one has come up with anything better in the last 500 years. It is not a book to read. It is just for reference.

None of those people are verified by history. They *only* appear in the bible.

They are verified by their DNA esp the most popular Cohan gene. The purest of anyone. I am sure you would be the first in line to say everyone today is not descended from Adam in the Bible. Yet there is a time magazine Adam that is a common ancestor for everyone. This is what I am talking about Archtypes. Science confirms what we read in our Bible. Science helps us to understand what we read in our Bible.

Y Chromosome Bears Witness to Story of the Jewish Diaspora (Published 2000)

Biologists have used new technique based on male or Y chromosome to trace diaspora of Jewish populations from dispersals that began in 586 BC to modern European and Middle Eastern communities; analysis shows these communities have retained their biological identity separate from host populations...

www.nytimes.com

 

[Diamond72]

This is just a weird, muddled mess. The 6000-year "garden of eden" timeline and real archeology (40000 year old artefacts) just DO NOT MESH. It seems like you really don't understand either of them.

You are the one that does not understand. I am not sure if I want to try to explain it to you.

 

[Diamond72]

If you don't know, maybe you should stop making claims about quantum physics.

Maybe you should quit making claims about the Bible.

 

[Hans Blaster]

They are verified by their DNA esp the most popular Cohan gene.

Which one of them are verified by the "Cohen gene"? I thought the claim (from when the study was first done) that it was "proof" of the patrilineal descent of the Jewish priesthood and was tied to Aaron the first high priest.

The purest of anyone. I am sure you would be the first in line to say everyone today is not descended from Adam in the Bible. Yet there is a time magazine Adam that is a common ancestor for everyone.

It does not. (see below)

This is what I am talking about Archtypes.

Archetypes, like the Jungian ones that fool Peterson keeps going on about? What does that have to do with any of this, or do you have some other notion of archetypes mind?

Science confirms what we read in our Bible.

Again and again, it doesn't.

Science helps us to understand what we read in our Bible.

That sounds like bad theology, but what do I care, it's just mere theology.

Y Chromosome Bears Witness to Story of the Jewish Diaspora (Published 2000)

Biologists have used new technique based on male or Y chromosome to trace diaspora of Jewish populations from dispersals that began in 586 BC to modern European and Middle Eastern communities; analysis shows these communities have retained their biological identity separate from host populations...

www.nytimes.com

Jews are from the Levant like a few other peoples. What's the point of this? It doesn't prove the bible.

What it demonstrates is that the various Jewish groups living *outside* the middle east were descended from Levantine Jews by tracing several male genetic lineages. The alternative notions, that there are a lot of genetic mixing with non-Jewish groups or conversions to Judaism outside the Levant does not fit the data.