Is YEC science? Is is even really a theory?

[Platte]

The old testament is sorta (with much bias) history of a nomadic tribal cultural

The whole purpose of the old testament was to keep historical records...and yes much bias....probably not as much bias as our history (U.S.) records but definitely a lot of bias.

 

[Platte]

I do. But there is a caveat in my saying this. Maybe two.

The problem here is that this "debate" gets truncated into an Either/Or set of polarized positions that are, really, a false dichotomy. This dichotomy can be seen for what it is by anyone who has taken the time to both read the Bible AND do wide academic study. If we all did this, we would know that the "debate" can't simply be pared down to this mere dichotomy.

But I get it: a dichotomy often easily sells more pew seats in Baptist churches and in Atheist meet-ups.

Good luck with that debate - I don't think there are many scholars that debate the significance of the Bible's historical significance....there are few if any ancient book with more historical significance than the Bible.

 

[Platte]

But it's only the start of recorded history, not history itself. How are you not getting what I'm saying?

I already agreed that its not the start of history....but it is the start of History.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Don't know which point got missed this
time but my thought on Pi was that
if a person just uses the Bible for his
facts he would conclude Pi is 3.

Maybe, but I'm not of that particular Christian party. I don't think the Bible is inerrant, and I wouldn't and haven't used that term to describe the nature of its various collection of writings. There have been some interesting apologetics on the "The Bible says Pi is 3" issue; but my view isn't dependent upon "Christian apologists."

And that there actually was a flood.

As for "approximately" 3.0?

The bible is only approximately true?
That's obvious but you would be the
first believer of my experience e to
acknowledge it.

Well, then, allow me to let you shake my hand! ... I know, it's kind of like landing on the Moon for the first time, ain't it?

... yes, I think the Bible is "only" approximatley true. And that's ok.

 

[Astrid]

That's ok. You don't have to be a translator for me to down Marx or Lenin or Mao. Since I have a (ex)Russian wife and I've studied Russian politics and philosophy, I can do so from another angle.

But, bless your old Uncle's heart anyway.

You don't want to get into it with him.
He's OK though. Decent guy.
We put him to work as a janitor in one
of those glass n steel towers of capitalism.

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[2PhiloVoid]

Good luck with that debate - I don't think there are many scholars that debate the significance of the Bible's historical significance....there are few if any ancient book with more historical significance than the Bible.

OH, but there are, Platte! There are many who do in the sense in which it matters.

However, I agree with you that the Bible has historical significance.

 

[Astrid]

The whole purpose of the old testament was to keep historical records...and yes much bias....probably not as much bias as our history (U.S.) records but definitely a lot of bias.

So why does it say there was a flood?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

You don't want to get into it with him.
He's OK though. Decent guy.
We put him to work as a janitor in one
of those glass n steel towers of capitalism.

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Well, everyone needs some work to do.

 

[Platte]

Terrif! Something to agree on.

Of course it's no more an opinion than
the common opossum is an opinion

And of course, I did not say it is.
Did you fail to read what I said, or
dishonestly pretend I said the Bible is
an opinion?

I was inquiring into the possible
errors in your opinion of what the
Bible means.

An honest response would have
addressed that, not something else.

common opossum...hehe...my comment was directed that I was not giving an opinion but rather stating what the Bible says.

 

[Platte]

Them naughty " academics" did the math
and found out Pi is not 3.

But none of them will find that "don't steal"
or, "honor your parents" is somehow in error.

I love the Pi comment - please explain what issue you have with Pi in the Bible. Oh and my general opinion is negative about apologetics.

 

[Platte]

Are you ignoring or denying everything I said
and again changing the subject?
(Rhetorical q., of course that's what you did )

But to your q., of course not. It has huge
historical significance. Ftm, the book of
Mormon has had quite the significance in the
the history of the USA.

The q is not whether it has historical
significance, but the accuracy of
the "history" in Bible, or, ftm, the BoM.

My post, which you wholly failed to address
was about how those parts that do read as
apparent history are sketchy and open
to such a huge range of (inerrant)
interpretations that it's a very unreliable
source for history.
Why not address that instead of chaging the subject?


( yecs explain away things like stars being
hundreds of thousands of light years away
with gimmicks like light speeding up or
slowing down to fit their 6000 yr creation date

Do you suppose Pi really was 3.0 when
Kings was written, but has gotten bigger
since? That would keep it historically accurate)

Explain your issue with the Pi statement in 1 Kings?

 

[Platte]

God warned His people that, if they continued in sin, He would ...

Deuteronomy 28:59 Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.

One of these plagues evidently was a bone-altering plague that distorted the framework of the skeletal system.

David was apparently afflicted with this plague, and describes it in detail in Psalm 38.

Note especially ...

Psalm 38:3 There is no soundness in my flesh because of thine anger; neither is there any rest in my bones because of my sin.
4 For mine iniquities are gone over mine head: as an heavy burden they are too heavy for me.
5 My wounds stink and are corrupt because of my foolishness.
6 I am troubled; I am bowed down greatly; I go mourning all the day long.
7 For my loins are filled with a loathsome disease: and there is no soundness in my flesh.

It is these guys that I believe scientists are mistaking for Neanderthals and Cro-magnons and whatever else their imaginations can come up with.

And for the record, I believe David repented, and the LORD healed him, for in the very next Psalm, he says:

Psalm 39:7 And now, Lord, what wait I for? my hope is in thee.
8 Deliver me from all my transgressions: make me not the reproach of the foolish.
9 I was dumb, I opened not my mouth; because thou didst it.
10 Remove thy stroke away from me: I am consumed by the blow of thine hand.
11 When thou with rebukes dost correct man for iniquity, thou makest his beauty to consume away like a moth: surely every man is vanity. Selah.
12 Hear my prayer, O LORD, and give ear unto my cry; hold not thy peace at my tears: for I am a stranger with thee, and a sojourner, as all my fathers were.
13 O spare me, that I may recover strength, before I go hence, and be no more.

It is so easy to dismiss your answer as being incorrect....but to me it highlights what really is the problem with science without Recorded History....there are so many what ifs and unknowns that science cannot consider and account for. There is no way science can account for changes or events that we do not know about. Science can only make assumptions and provide results based on those assumptions - its recorded History that generally can point science in the right direction - but take away that recorded History and you take away much of the value of science.

 

[Astrid]

OH, but there are, Platte! There are many who do in the sense in which it matters.

However, I agree that the Bible has historical significance.

In what way(s) do you find it "significant"?

From our pov here in the land of the
celestials, it could hardly have less
significance.

I love the Pi comment - please explain what issue you have with Pi in the Bible. Oh and my general opinion is negative about apologetics.

Diameter 10, circumference 30.
You don't know that part?

 

[Astrid]

It is so easy to dismiss your answer as being incorrect....but to me it highlights what really is the problem with science without Recorded History....there are so many what ifs and unknowns that science cannot consider and account for. There is no way science can account for changes or events that we do not know about. Science can only make assumptions and provide results based on those assumptions - its recorded History that generally can point science in the right direction - but take away that recorded History and you take away much of the value of science.

It points, all right. Often in the totally wrong direction.

What you assume to be recorded history
pointed "science", in its primitive stages,
to assume that landforms were the result of
the assumed "flood".

When ( Christian) scientists had enough data
to convince them that there had been no flood,
it was a great step toward liberating thought from
tradition and " received" knowledge.

 

[Astrid]

common opossum...hehe...my comment was directed that I was not giving an opinion but rather stating what the Bible says.

As usual, off topic.
Why did you suggest I thought the
Bible is just an opinion, and sidestep, as
usual, my actual question about assuming
that your OPINION about what the Bible means
by what it says is in any way correct?

 

[Platte]

Diameter 10, circumference 30.
You don't know that part?

PI is absolutely 3.14....who used Pi as 3 and not 3.14 because if someone said 3 was Pi or measured something that is 3.14 as 3 then they would be wrong and it would be wrong. Are you saying the Bible says 3?

My point is if Solomon used 3 for Pi and that was his understanding of Pi - whats the Biblical issue with that. If I noted in a book that Galileo recorded the speed of light at 302000KM per second would that make my book wrong or not worthy because Galileo was wrong? No, of course not, it would simply highlight what Galileo used or thought the speed of light was.

 

[Platte]

As usual, off topic.
Why did you suggest I thought the
Bible is just an opinion, and sidestep, as
usual, my actual question about assuming
that your OPINION about what the Bible means
by what it says is in any way correct?

I don't generally don't give my opinion of what the Bible says...I simply state what the Bible says.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I already agreed that its not the start of history....but it is the start of History.

Which, again, is a nonsensical distinction.

The start of recorded history IS JUST the start of recorded history. Do you understand that?

 

[Platte]

Which, again, is a nonsensical distinction.

The start of recorded history IS JUST the start of recorded history. Do you understand that?

Its not nonsensical - dismissing or marginalizing History (recorded) is your way of ignoring the significance of it. There is nothing more important to our understanding of the past than recorded history. The study of which is called History. I think its safe to say that 99% of every detail we know about our past is because of History (recorded).
Its not just the start of recorded history - its the start of 99% (don't take my number literally - you get my point) of every detail we know about our past....and its rightly aligned with the Biblical time and place of creation - that is stunning!

 

[Astrid]

PI is absolutely 3.14....who used Pi as 3 and not 3.14 because if someone said 3 was Pi or measured something that is 3.14 as 3 then they would be wrong and it would be wrong. Are you saying the Bible says 3?

My point is if Solomon used 3 for Pi and that was his understanding of Pi - whats the Biblical issue with that. If I noted in a book that Galileo recorded the speed of light at 302000KM per second would that make my book wrong or not worthy because Galileo was wrong? No, of course not, it would simply highlight what Galileo used or thought the speed of light was.

This is so freaking simple.
IF a person derived his math by
reading the Bible he would see that pi is 3.


Same as if he got his geology and history there,
checked no outside sources, he'd think there really
had been a flood.
Just believe what the bible says, it's right there.