Is YAHWEH andALLAH the same person?

RDKirk · Nov 28, 2023

seashale76 said:
Eh- Jews think they do because they think Muslims truly qualify as monotheistic. Jews happen to think that Christians are polytheistic idolators though. Orthodox Jews would be allowed to go into a mosque but not a church.

Hmm. Well....

In Hinduism, there is a concept known as "Brahman," which is considered the ultimate, formless, and eternal reality that transcends the individual deities. According to certain philosophical perspectives within Hinduism, all the different gods and goddesses are manifestations or aspects of this ultimate reality.

One particular expression of this idea is the concept of "Para Brahman" and "Apara Brahman." Para Brahman is the supreme, unmanifested reality, while Apara Brahman is the manifested reality that includes the various deities. In this context, some Hindus may say that all gods are essentially different manifestations or aspects of the same divine reality.

Regarding Shiva, he is one of the major deities in Hinduism and is often considered a part of the Hindu Trinity, alongside Brahma (the creator) and Vishnu (the preserver). Each of these deities is responsible for a different aspect of the cosmic order.

So, if merely by being monotheistic, Muslims must believe in the same God Jews, that means Hindus may well believe in the same God as Christians (and some Hindus do say that).

Jipsah · Nov 28, 2023

RDKirk said:
At some point we have to question if we're talking about the same Trump.

How many are there?

Jipsah · Nov 28, 2023

RDKirk said:
Hmm. Well....

In Hinduism, there is a concept known as "Brahman," which is considered the ultimate, formless, and eternal reality that transcends the individual deities. According to certain philosophical perspectives within Hinduism, all the different gods and goddesses are manifestations or aspects of this ultimate reality.

One particular expression of this idea is the concept of "Para Brahman" and "Apara Brahman." Para Brahman is the supreme, unmanifested reality, while Apara Brahman is the manifested reality that includes the various deities. In this context, some Hindus may say that all gods are essentially different manifestations or aspects of the same divine reality.

Regarding Shiva, he is one of the major deities in Hinduism and is often considered a part of the Hindu Trinity, alongside Brahma (the creator) and Vishnu (the preserver). Each of these deities is responsible for a different aspect of the cosmic order.

So, if merely by being monotheistic, Muslims must believe in the same God Jews, that means Hindus may well believe in the same God as Christians (and some Hindus do say that).

Nonsense

Jipsah · Nov 28, 2023

Jipsah said:
Nonsense

RDKirk · Nov 28, 2023

Jipsah said:
Nonsense

Of course it is. But it's no more nonsensical as supposing that the God of Abraham is the god of Islam.

BNR32FAN · Nov 28, 2023

RDKirk said:
Let's say I meet a guy at the coffee shop, we chat, and discover we attended the same university. He speaks of an English professor he had as a freshman, a Mr. Smith (very common name). I say, "Hey, I had Mr. Smith for freshman English myself!" Then he begins describing Mr. Smith in great detail, but the Mr. Smith he describes is nothing like the Mr. Smith I knew.

At what point should I conclude that he's not talking about the same person I knew? How much false information does it take?

Both Mr Smith’s in this case created Adam & Eve, flooded the world, saved only Noah and his family, and is known as the Mr Smith of Abraham, Jacob, and Issac. What you’re implying is that both you and the guy in the coffee shop are both speaking the truth about two completely different people but in the case of Muslims and Christians one is speaking truth about God and the other isn’t. That’s a completely different situation.

BNR32FAN · Nov 28, 2023

RDKirk said:
At some point we have to question if we're talking about the same Trump.

One doesn’t create a completely new person simply by making false statements about someone who actually exists.

RDKirk · Nov 28, 2023

BNR32FAN said:
Both Mr Smith’s in this case created Adam & Eve, flooded the world, saved only Noah and his family, and is known as the Mr Smith of Abraham, Jacob, and Issac. What you’re implying is that both you and the guy in the coffee shop are both speaking the truth about two completely different people but in the case of Muslims and Christians one is speaking truth about God and the other isn’t. That’s a completely different situation.

And there were a handful of coincidences between the two Mr. Smiths as well. But the differences were critical.

Christians reject other Jesus-confessors as believing in a different god far less significant differences than exist between Jews and Muslims.

RDKirk · Nov 28, 2023

BNR32FAN said:
One doesn’t create a completely new person simply by making false statements about someone who actually exists.

Certainly they do. Oh, for sure, only one person actually exists, but they certainly do create a virtual person and behave as though that virtual person exists. That's what a "false god" is all about. The god of Islam is as much a false god as Mithras is.

BNR32FAN · Nov 28, 2023

RDKirk said:
And there were a handful of coincidences between the two Mr. Smiths as well. But the differences were critical.

Christians reject other Jesus-confessors as believing in a different god far less significant differences than exist between Jews and Muslims.

Ok if you can’t admit you’re wrong I guess I’ll just have to accept that.

Jipsah · Nov 29, 2023

RDKirk said:
Of course it is. But it's no more nonsensical as supposing that the God of Abraham is the god of Islam.

Oh, it's the other God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The trick here is that the Muslim understanding of God is still closer to the Jewish view than is the Christian view. So are you also ready to declare that God the Father of Jesus Christ is not the God of Abraham?

Jipsah · Nov 29, 2023

tturt said:
"Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." Matt 22

The Koran states the opposite; therefore, Yahweh and Allah are not the same.

Christians believe that God is Father,Son, and Holy Spirit. Both Jews and Muslims find that idea blasphemous. Ergo Christians don't worship the same God as do Muslims and Jews.

Jipsah · Nov 29, 2023

RDKirk said:
At some point we have to question if we're talking about the same Trump.

How many are there who are billionaire former presidents?

Jonaitis · Nov 29, 2023

SAAN said:
I hear many people say when Muslims refer to ALLAH they are worshiping the same God Christians worship YAHWEH and others say Islam is worships ALLAH as a moon God and is NOT the same God Christians worship.

So is the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob YHWH/YAH/YAHWEH... etc, the same God ALLAH that Islam claims to worship??

Yahweh and Allah are the Supreme Being in both religions. What seems to differ the most is their role within creation and the number of members in the Godhead. Christianity teaches that Yahweh is God subsisting in three distinct persons, whereas Allah isn't considered a person at all (beyond it). Christianity teaches that Yahweh wants all men to know Christ as Savior and walk in his commandments. Islam teaches that Allah wants all men to know he is God and submit to his rules. So, honestly, they are both pointing to the same Source, but their interpretations are different as to what kind of God he is to humankind.

tturt · Dec 1, 2023

What confidence can be put in a God whose expectations depends on the group being addressed? When those guidellines are opposite, what would this reveal about His character?

If they were the Same Source, there would be consistency.

RDKirk · Dec 1, 2023

Jonaitis said:
Yahweh and Allah are the Supreme Being in both religions. What seems to differ the most is their role within creation and the number of members in the Godhead. Christianity teaches that Yahweh is God subsisting in three distinct persons, whereas Allah isn't considered a person at all (beyond it). Christianity teaches that Yahweh wants all men to know Christ as Savior and walk in his commandments. Islam teaches that Allah wants all men to know he is God and submit to his rules. So, honestly, they are both pointing to the same Source, but their interpretations are different as to what kind of God he is to humankind.

You seem to have said that the only thing necessary is for two religions to have the same creation story for their gods to be the same god, even though all the personal characteristics of their gods are clearly different.

Jipsah · Dec 1, 2023

tturt said:
What confidence can be put in a God whose expectations depends on the group being addressed? When those guidellines are opposite, what would this reveal about His characteristics?

If they were the Same Source, there would be consistency.

Just as the doctrines of all Bible Believing Christians are consistent.

tturt · Dec 1, 2023

My observation in threads like this is that they degress into personal attacks.

So exiting.

Jipsah · Dec 1, 2023

RDKirk said:
You seem to have said that the only thing necessary is for two religions to have the same creation story for their gods to be the same god, even though all the personal characteristics of their gods are clearly different.

So does that mean that every allegedly Christian denomination with significant differences in theology worship different Gods? I recall several occasions where I heard different Baptist SS teachers offer different heretical (generally modalist) "explanations of the Trinity. Must have been talking about a different Trinity. And we regularly see various folks here deny that it's possible for God to have a mother, implicitly denying that Christ is God Incarnate, and the hypostatic union and thus also, implicitly, the Trinity . We see dramatic differences in eschatology, with some saying that God has arranged for the unsaved to be tortured forever, some saying they'll be erased from eternity, and some that they'll all eventually be redeemed by the Blood of Christ. Three different Gods? And of course you can think of myriad examples or believers believing very different things about God.

And in fact, I've heard many Christians make that very assertion. "If they don't agree with this doctrine they're preaching Another Christ." That's a very pious way of sayng "Another God", innit?

RDKirk · Dec 1, 2023

Jipsah said:
And in fact, I've heard many Christians make that very assertion. "If they don't agree with this doctrine they're preaching Another Christ." That's a very pious way of sayng "Another God", innit?

Yes, it is, and sometimes it's true.

Is YAHWEH andALLAH the same person?

Is YAHWEH andALLAH the same person?

YES

NO

NOT SURE

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