Is worhiping on Sunday and the Sun Worship of Baal connected...

[reddogs]

Hey AT,

Glad to see you, I think Jim is refering to the following:

10And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
11He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. Revelation 22:10-20

Red

 

[Jimlarmore]

As far as the law or the ten words, they where fulfilled by Christ. His perfect law keeping is given to those who are connected to and united to Him. It is by love that we establish the law. Rom 3:31

Indeed, and the fact that Paul says it is established at all refutes the contention that it is done away with or no longer in effect.

Yes He created the first Sabbath, but do you read from scripture that He asked any to keep it holy before the Law of Moses?

The answer lies in the word sanctify in Genesis. Sanctify means to set aside for Holy USE and obviously it was man who would use and benefit from the Sabbath. This logically leads one to conclude that God intended for man to rest on and keep the Sabbath Holy. Other than that, one cannot conclude because there is not a lengthy command to keep the day holy, that it wasn't a vital practice back then. God also didn't command man to breath every few seconds either but he did because it was a natural thing to do. Before sin keeping the Sabbath was as natural as breathing. Only after sin entered would it have become something God needed to command men to do.

This passage of scripture has always been a puzzle to many SDA believers...they don't understand what it means in context because of its confusing words about new moons and carcuses and worms not dieing and unquenched fire. But yet they continue to use this text in favor of the Sabbath. Its obvious that this passage is hyperbole. You should look to the point the passage is making through the hyperbole, rather thank trying to support a Sabbath doctrine.

I can't see past the declarative statement that the Sabbath will be a special time when the saints will gather and worship before God. No exegesis of context invalidates or refutes this clear statement as a fact. The new moon part is only a time schedule as the weekly cycle is and nothing else. There is nothing there to indicate a ceremonial aspect of the new moon in the earth made new other than it will be a time for the gathering of the saints before God Almighty as the weekly Sabbath will be. There is nothing there that would indicate that these new moons in the earth made new would be similar to the ones kept in the ceremonial law requirements such as the feast of Tabarnacles etc. I did an extensive study on this and that is all I could conclude.

The carcases lying around is an allusion to the time spoken of in Mal 4:1-3 where the wicked are burned up then are viewed as ashes under the souls of the feet of the righteous. This time and the event of Christ re-creating the new earth will happen sequentially or in fast succession.

Do you establish the law by your loving kindness to others, or do you follow after the law to perform them because you are saved? Kindly answer this question please.

Actually, the ten commandment law has two major components as Jesus Christ pointed out in the gospels. The first four is concerned with our devotion to God. How can that have been fulfilled? It doesn't make sense to say Christ's life and death on the cross or His grace we now enjoy has made devotion to God unnecessary.

The last 6 are concerned with our devotion to our fellow man. Again, how can that have been fulfilled or done away with? Christ Himself told us to love one another even as He has loved us. Christ's death and it's attendent grace didn't make it alright to mistreat our neighbor's now or throw away the last 6 laws of the ten commandments. The only law that Christ fulfilled was the law that specifically pointed to Him and what He was going to do and that is the sacrificial laws. Here we clearly see fulfillment and in that fulfillment we no longer need to perform these requirements.

When we are saved , sin should be horrible to us and we should come to the place we would rather die than to intentionally sin against our creator. It was sin that killed Christ on the cross.


God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[reddogs]

I am intrested in some very hard biblical evidence on why we should worship on another day than Sunday. To me it dosen't matter what day we worship on. O and please no Old Testament evidence we are no longer under the Old Testament covenant.

Love is a total package, if you love God, you have to accept all of God not just part of him. You can't love just a part of someone you marry or just love your newborn babies eyes but not the rest of him....

Here is a good website:

http://www.sabbathseventhday.net/

 

[freeindeed2]

Love is a total package, if you love God, you have to accept all of God not just part of him. You can't love just a part of someone you marry or just love your newborn babies eyes but not the rest of him....

Here is a good website:

http://www.sabbathseventhday.net/

When the Holy Spirit doesn't convict other Christians of the Sabbath (but they've accepted Jesus' blood) would you view them as being 'deficient' or 'lacking' spiritually?

In your opinion, can a person love God without being convicted of the Sabbath, or do they have to accept the Sabbath first before loving God? Or do you see it as being part of the Christian growth process?

 

[reddogs]

If your fiancee is picking the ring for the wedding, when in this marriage growth process do you think you should stop seeing your old girlfriend(s) and staying overnight...?

 

[freeindeed2]

If your fiancee is picking the ring for the wedding, when in this marriage growth process do you think you should stop seeing your old girlfriend(s) and staying overnight...?

Not sure I understand. Are you saying that those who worship God on days other than the 7th day are 'sleeping around' spiritually?

 

[reddogs]

I wasnt going to put it that way, but God is a 'bit jealous' to say the least, when those who say they are 'Spiritual Israel' and love him and what His Son did for them, but they go and worship other gods on their day not His....

 

[Jimlarmore]

When the Holy Spirit doesn't convict other Christians of the Sabbath (but they've accepted Jesus' blood) would you view them as being 'deficient' or 'lacking' spiritually?

In your opinion, can a person love God without being convicted of the Sabbath, or do they have to accept the Sabbath first before loving God? Or do you see it as being part of the Christian growth process?

Sometimes God reveals the truth in stages. What I have observed is that many times folks already know full well the truth about the Sabbath they just don't feel it's something they need to do yet. Does that mean they are not saved? I don't think so. This is where the Holy Spirit will come in eventually. As the time approaches for the very end of all things to go down you will see a huge push from the latter rain that will bring all of this out. It will be at that time that the Holy Spirit will work fiercely to draw hearts to the right way of thinking. No one is receiving the mark of the beast right now. Eventually that will happen though and at that point every man woman or child above the age of accountability will have to decide.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[freeindeed2]

I wasnt going to put it that way, but God is a 'bit jealous' to say the least, when those who say they are 'Spiritual Israel' and love him and what His Son did for them, but they go and worship other gods on their day not His....

Even though, technically I'm still SDA, I've gotten myself in trouble by discussing here, so I must bow out so as to not cause any ripples in the SDA pool. Anyway, maybe I should have chosen the blue pill (then I would have the SDA flame).

Interesting theory you have here though. If a person goes to a non-SDA church on the 7th day (say, 6:00 pm, or so) are they still guilty of worshiping another God? What if ther service goes past sundown? Is that counted as Sunday?

 

[reddogs]

So lets say you arent a church of the reformation going to worhip on the day of the sun gods, but instead
you are going to Mass on saturday evening (7th day) but you are praying to idols, doing worship and ceremonies that are from pagan sun gods or worship, following false doctrines and traditions of men, do you think God would see any problems with that.

You can cut it anyway you like, but if you are sleeping around and your fiancee finds out, there is going to be a problem..........

 

[freeindeed2]

So lets say you arent a church of the reformation going to worhip on the day of the sun gods, but instead
you are going to Mass on saturday evening (7th day) but you are praying to idols, doing worship and ceremonies that are from pagan sun gods or worship, following false doctrines and traditions of men, do you think God would see any problems with that.

You can cut it anyway you like, but if you are sleeping around and your fiancee finds out, there is going to be a problem..........

red, I wasn't referring to Catholicism. But I think I'm getting your point anyway. If I don't attend an SDA church then I am praying to idols, worshiping pagan sun gods, following false doctrine and traditions, and thus 'sleeping with the enemy', even though I go to church on the 7th day?

Would I still receive the Mark of the Beast even though I don't go to church on Sunday?

 

[reddogs]

If your fiancee says please dont sleep around, and you say OK but you take out your old girlfriends, you spend money buying them baubles, you give them money so they can upkeep the little apartment you met in, and you arrange so they meet you while your fiancee is at work, you are following "the letter of the law but not the intent" of your fiancee......

If you know that sunday is the day for pagan sun gods, I think God will hold you to a higher level of accountability, while those who dont know are worshiping to the best of their knowledge and God is merciful. It is up to him to judge, I cannot.
By keeping His commandments, including the fourth commandment about the Sabbath, you dont have to worry about receiving the Mark of the Beast, no matter how it is defined.

 

[freeindeed2]

If your fiancee says please dont sleep around, and you say OK but you take out your old girlfriends, you spend money buying them baubles, you give them money so they can upkeep the little apartment you met in, and you arrange so they meet you while your fiancee is at work, you are following "the letter of the law but not the intent" of your fiancee......

If you know that sunday is the day for pagan sun gods, I think God will hold you to a higher level of accountability, while those who dont know are worshiping to the best of their knowledge and God is merciful. It is up to him to judge, I cannot.
By keeping His commandments, including the fourth commandment about the Sabbath, you dont have to worry about receiving the Mark of the Beast, no matter how it is defined.

What if, after years of trying to keep the commandments, I learned that I never did keep them? I lied, even to myself. I stole people's reputations. I thought my own thoughts on Sabbath and never figured out how to keep it holy. I lusted after pretty girls. I coveted the Mercedes and Porches of my church members while I drove a Civic. I no longer honor my parents. And soon I realize that I break them all. The guilt settles in. I try harder. Same result. And I repeat that same pattern for years, always trying harder, praying harder, disciplining myself more and more, telling myself that with God's help I can do it. At times I pretend that I can claim to keep them, but when I'm honest with myself, when I see the holiness of God and his perfect standard, I realize clearly that I don't keep them and that my own heart deceives me. I am the filthy rags and I have no righteousness.

So, if I'm counting on the blood of Christ and his righteousness for my salvation am I at risk of receiving the Mark of the Beast and being thrown into the lake of fire, since I obviously don't keep the 10 commandments perfectly?

 

[Jimlarmore]

This life is a struggle no matter how you slice it my friend. When Christ was here His life was full of chaos and heart ache. Just like us I'm sure He had times of great frustration actual pain but His eyes were constantly fixed on the Father to keep Him from sinning. Our's is to be the same experience. Just because we meet with repeated failure is no reason to throw up our hands and look for a way to support a false belief that it is impossible to live without sin. It's not a valid reason to go to the scriptures either and twist what they say to fit ideas that the law is no longer in effect.

We have to at least be about keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus, we need to surrender our lives minute by minute if need be to gain the victory. Christ will give us the power if we do this. I know because this has happened in my life. When I have trouble is when I take my eyes off of the Lord. This can happen quickly, but we don't have to stay that way, we can come back. We can always come back.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[reddogs]

See, the word "trying" is the problem. Your fiancee says be faithful and you say I am "trying" and you never do, so she tells you she loves you and will forgive you for anything you've done if you will only return her love. Her love is so great it tranforms you and you leave those old girlfriends behind.........


I once hated the law like you and its yoke and struggled against God as you have, till God brought me back and openned my eyes with his love...

 

[freeindeed2]

See, the word "trying" is the problem. Your fiancee says be faithful and you say I am "trying" and you never do, so she tells you she loves you and will forgive you for anything you've done if you will only return her love. Her love is so great it tranforms you and you leave those old girlfriends behind.........


I once hated the law like you and its yoke and struggled against God as you have, till God brought me back and openned my eyes with his love...

reddogs, I do not hate the law (I'm just condemned by it). I'm not allowed to discuss anything here, but thank you for attempting to answer my questions (really!). I'm sure I'm allowed to lift up Jesus as my Savior and Lord, though. I praise him for what he has done for me (and all who believe in him for their salvation!), for he alone is faithful, righteous and good. Since he has credited us with his righteousness I don't think anybody or any church can accuse us before God, for it is Jesus who has gained victory over sin for us. That, my friend, is good news!

God bless!

 

[reddogs]

Your fiancee forgave, and covered all your infidelities with her love, and yet you still stay with your old girfriends, the wedding may not happen.....


Babylon is full of old girlfriends of the false gods and false doctrines, worship to the old sun god of Baal, I think the time has come to leave them so you may share in Christs wedding feast in His Kingdom......

As always a brother in Christ
Red

 

[freeindeed2]

Your fiancee forgave, and covered all your infidelities with her love, and yet you still stay with your old girfriends, the wedding may not happen.....

Nice try. You're trying to get me to engage in debate with you so I'll get in more trouble.

Lift up Jesus! He takes away our sins and makes us righteous when we believe in him!

 

[reddogs]

No, the parable of the fiancee was a simple way to stay away from debate and still get the point across. If you study the scriptures and cannot see a problem with churches that have not let go all of the beliefs of Babylon, no debate will make a difference, it is up to the Holy Spirit to guide you on this......

 

[freeindeed2]

No, the parable of the fiancee was a simple way to stay away from debate and still get the point across. If you study the scriptures and cannot see a problem with churches that have not let go all of the beliefs of Babylon, no debate will make a difference, it is up to the Holy Spirit to guide you on this......

I couldn't agree with you more on this part of your statment. It would be nice if more people trusted in the leading of the Holy Spirit. It has made a huge difference in my life!