Is War A Sin?

[Shalia]

Have to post... I'm on a terrible number there.

So, God bless our troops, theirs is not a fun battle, as it's against both the Iraqis, and those here who choose not to support them in what was not their decision to begin with.

 

[FlyerBoy]

well I am not here to debate I just want to state my opinion. I believe in god. I think if you go to war or fight for a purpose it would be alright. I am getting ready to join the United States Marine Corps, I thought about if war and fighting were right or wrong and I let God take me which ever way he wanted. It seems that the Marines is where I am going. Well what I am saying is if you go to war just for the thrill, then you should never have gone. But if you're going to war to defend you, your family, and your country there should not be any thing wrong with it.

 

[~RENEE~]

well I am not here to debate I just want to state my opinion. I believe in god. I think if you go to war or fight for a purpose it would be alright. I am getting ready to join the United States Marine Corps, I thought about if war and fighting were right or wrong and I let God take me which ever way he wanted. It seems that the Marines is where I am going. Well what I am saying is if you go to war just for the thrill, then you should never have gone. But if you're going to war to defend you, your family, and your country there should not be any thing wrong with it.

You are right my dear. and may God be with and protect you during your time in the marines.

 

[FlyerBoy]

Have to post... I'm on a terrible number there.

So, God bless our troops, theirs is not a fun battle, as it's against both the Iraqis, and those here who choose not to support them in what was not their decision to begin with.

Hey I don't think you understand military to well. Yes, I know it is hard to fight a war that people in your country don't even support. But everyone that is over in Iraq is over their because they signed up for the military. Why else would someone sign up for the military then to protect our country.

I am not trying to debate I just wanted to let you know that everyone over in Iraq had the choice to sign the papers and they did.

 

[heartofheaven]

I have not read the previous posts, so if this has been covered …. Sorry!

James sure makes it sound like war is a sin, or at least rooted in sin, “Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet you do not have because you do not ask" (James 4.1-2).

Augustine invented the doctrine of “just war” (I think the Muslims would agree, calling it jihad) and it has been a cardinal doctrine of the church ever since.
I would like to keep this as simple as sound doctrine / a time for war a time for peace (Ecclesisates) or is that just the old covenant? God being the same yesterday , today and tomorrow I mean / you see when we see someone in need and do nothing how are we any less guilty than the evil that wages war against the innocent? / I f you knew that a murderous cannibal lived next door to you and your family would you REALLY just go to bed with the doors unlocked? / DOUBT IT ! / how about when someone is being molested in your front yard ? / shut the blinds and close the windows? / I know some that would / I have witnessed first hand leaders sooooo concerned with their ministries that they could not be bothered with standing for the fatherless or widow / may GOD forgive us all for stopping our ears to sound doctrine / surrounding ourselves in place with doctrines not of God but of devils / and all the while preaching prosperity and blessings / I look forward to hearing from you as you need to lead the less strong in the ways of GOD / Joe

 

[S Walch]

One really needs to read what St Augustine said about the criteria for Just war.

St Augustine said that a government should do everything within it's power to find a peaceful resolution to the current problem at hand, without the shedding of Blood.

Then war should be use as a last resort if nothing comes from trying to find a peaceful solution.

Also, there are several main points that he goes through:

1. There are circumstances in which the proper authority of the state may use force in defense of its people.
2. War must only be waged by legitimate civil authority, and thee must be a formal declaration of war.
3. The purpose for which the war is fought must be just
4. The recourse to war must be a last resort.
5. The motive of war must be just
6. The must be reasonable hope of success.
7. The good consequences to be expected from going to war must outweigh the evils incurred.
8 The war must be waged in such a way that only the minimum force needed to achieve the aims of the war may be used.

As we can see, the only thing that the USA didn't follow for the just war criteria is tha tthe warefare should have been used as a last resort

It seems to me that it was more of a first resort than a last resort.

I do believe GWB really does mean to help the Iraqi people - and I am sure they are very grateful that democracy is being introduced into Iraq.

But one thing I do not like, is that the war was not used as alast resort.

Whether you agree with the war or not - it's a bit too late now.

The problem the USA didn't deal with very well, is that most of the terrirsts in Iraq aren't actually iraqi people but those from another country who have taken up the Jihad against the americans and those trying to bring a sense of order to Iraq.

One other thing I will address is this:

Is war actually a sin?

If a war isn't for freedom, then yes, i would say that war is a sin.

So, all the crusades, were not just wars but false holy wars.

They were never meant to free anything, but to re-conqure the holy land or places where muslims and Jews had set up.

 

[Jonteel]

The people that are my friends are for the war.

The Iraqi people have had it hard. They need a break.

What they do when we are gone is up to them. They probably won't appreciate what we do.

Look at the French. They hate us. What did we do to deserve that? We helped them when they needed it. No good deed ever goes unpunished.

 

[S Walch]

...that wasn't directed at me right?

I don't remember posting anything about Fallujah..

Edit:

I don't know one American that believes that we are wrong to be over there.

Sorry, but I can name one:

Michael Moore anyone?

 

[soldout]

One really needs to read what St Augustine said about the criteria for Just war.

St Augustine said that a government should do everything within it's power to find a peaceful resolution to the current problem at hand, without the shedding of Blood.

Then war should be use as a last resort if nothing comes from trying to find a peaceful solution.

Also, there are several main points that he goes through:

1. There are circumstances in which the proper authority of the state may use force in defense of its people.
2. War must only be waged by legitimate civil authority, and thee must be a formal declaration of war.
3. The purpose for which the war is fought must be just
4. The recourse to war must be a last resort.
5. The motive of war must be just
6. The must be reasonable hope of success.
7. The good consequences to be expected from going to war must outweigh the evils incurred.
8 The war must be waged in such a way that only the minimum force needed to achieve the aims of the war may be used.

As we can see, the only thing that the USA didn't follow for the just war criteria is tha tthe warefare should have been used as a last resort

It seems to me that it was more of a first resort than a last resort.

I do believe GWB really does mean to help the Iraqi people - and I am sure they are very grateful that democracy is being introduced into Iraq.

But one thing I do not like, is that the war was not used as alast resort.

Whether you agree with the war or not - it's a bit too late now.

The problem the USA didn't deal with very well, is that most of the terrirsts in Iraq aren't actually iraqi people but those from another country who have taken up the Jihad against the americans and those trying to bring a sense of order to Iraq.

One other thing I will address is this:

Is war actually a sin?

If a war isn't for freedom, then yes, i would say that war is a sin.

So, all the crusades, were not just wars but false holy wars.

They were never meant to free anything, but to re-conqure the holy land or places where muslims and Jews had set up.

I must wonder what the citizens of Kuwate might think of your exterior reasoning?

It's an easy thing to shout advice from the safety of cover, it's an entirely different thing to process that conviction at the point of attack.

 

[Jonteel]

S Walch, no that wasn't directed at you. Mercy. it was directed at the first poster (MDulin) that started this thread with this question.


This is MDulin's original post (the first lines) Notice(in the last line) that its source is unnamed:

Is War A Sin?

FOR ALL YOU BUSH FANS. MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOULS.



January 19, 2005
ODD HAPPENINGS IN FALLUJAH

by Dahr Jamail

"The soldiers are doing strange things in Fallujah," said one of my contacts in Fallujah who just returned. He was in his city checking on his home and just returned to Baghdad this evening.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, he continued,

 

[S Walch]

I must wonder what the citizens of Kuwate might think of your exterior reasoning?

It's an easy thing to shout advice from the safety of cover, it's an entirely different thing to process that conviction at the point of attack.

That's a very good point, as St Augustine himself reached a conundrum.

How could any war be just if there are still gonna be innocent casualties?

Problem is, in any war, there will be innocent casualties.

It's bad I know, but as St Augustine also notes, because of our fallen nature, war is inevitable - so no matter how much you dislike war, or believe it to be a sin, wars are still gonna happen due to our human fallen nature.

It is my wish that everyone on this planet was a Pacifist - but until Jesus returns, that is an impossibility..

 

[Jonteel]

Or do you presume that I know Michael Moore?

The only people that I've seen that oppose the war are democratic Movie stars and the owners of MTV.

I personally don’t know any democratic Hollywood stars. Ashton Krutchner, Leonado Decapitated, Barbara Striessand, Georgi Carlin, Condom O'Brien, and Alec Baldwin, are not my friends.

However, the guy next door says that his cousin's husband once cut the hair of Charleton Heston. I doubt it. His cousin's husband is a liar.

Incidentally Alec Baldwin promised that if Bush got elected, then he would move to Canada. That was five years ago, and he is still HERE.

We have no luck at all.

When Alec Baldwin threatened (on the "tonight show") to stone a politician's wife and children, the rest of America was hoping that he would move to Canada. He is an embarrassment.

These are the kind of Hollywood wackos that the British see opposing the war.

OH, you are British. You may not understand American journalism. The liberals control the press. The press vehemently denies this. But, just to show you how much they control the press. Dan Rather, the big dog at one of our biggest networks (and a huge liberal), was just fired for concocting lies about president Bush. So much for objective reporting. No one in America believes the liberal press.

Wait, let me correct myself. I suppose that there are people that agree with the press, and then these people would probably agree that the press is unbiased.

If you want the truth you need to go to Rush Limbaugh, Jim Quinn, or Ted Nugent. Nugent was a rock star in another life.

Incidentally, I want to congratulate you on your PM Maggie Thatcher. In 1991, she told Saddam that if he use chem or bio, she would nuke Bagdad. She had backbone.

 

[S Walch]

Maggie thatcher rocked

We should've taken care of Saddam back then really....

As for MM - I saw Fahrenheit 9/11, he seemed pretty much opposed to the war in that...

As did A few other people...

 

[Andry]

Maggie thatcher rocked

LOL....were you even old enough to remember (let alone know) Maggie? Or is that mostly from hearsay from your parents or school texts?

 

[JimB]

So if I read this right Jim what you would rather see is a tyrant killing his own people for the fun of it. Sir I have a friend in Iraq that came hom for a funeral while he was here he informed us that the iraqi people are glad that he is there. And yes sir he is a medic. But when the voting happened he was patroling the polls. Not counting that one of my cousins gave his life so those people could have freedom over there. Thats the real reason for us being over anyway so they can have freedom from a murderous tyrant.

No I would not rather see that, furrysmom. No need to be sarcastic or to take this personal. No one is talking about your friend (or cousin) and I am glad he is serving in a loving, helpful capacity. I have friends over there, too, members of our church. This touches more than just you.

Actually, I am really ambivalent about all this. I know war will happen as long as unregenerate men live. War will even be in the Millennium!! We cannot end it nor can we find an answer to it. It is the great necessary evil of our race.

My concern is that war involves the unregenerate men’s solution to their problems. The kingdoms of this world will always be in conflict. Somehow, it is all in God’s will (Romans 13.1-7).

But Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world.” And how may times did He tell us that we are “not of this world”, either (e.g., John 15.19; 17.6; 17.14-16).



And we are taught in the Epistles …

1 Corinthians 2.12 “Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.”


Colossians 2.8, 20 “Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. … If you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations--”

1 John 2.16 “For all that is in the world--the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life--is not of the Father but is of the world.

​

In other words, our principle allegiance and patriotism is to the Kingdom, not to the world, or even the good old USA.


What would God have us do, as Christians, given a choice, serve in the infantry destroying life or in, say, the medic corps saving life and putting one’s life in jeopardy – laying down your life - for others?

I have never endorsed shirking military duty, but not all of the military is involved in taking life. Each Christian must decide for himself where he will serve and, if he is assigned to a combatant role, his conscience will be tested to the max.

I propose no answers except to say that, for the Christian to cheer for the destruction of human life, even if it be our designated enemy, seems anomalous to who we are called to be.

During WWII many an American Christian Baptist brother drew a bead on a German Christian Lutheran brother and blew him away (or visa versa). I wonder how their heavenly Father and their Savior felt about that.

It boggles the mind.

\o/

 

[julian the apostate]

War will even be in the Millennium!!

?

 

[JimB]

War will even be in the Millennium!!

?

Yep.
Revelations 20.7Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[b] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[~RENEE~]

No I would not rather see that, furrysmom.

I am glad Jim that you do not want to see such a thing happen. As I said if I read this right guess I didn't huh.

No need to be sarcastic or to take this personal.

That's a bad trait that I have my husband even gets onto me for it sometimes.

I know war will happen as long as unregenerate men live. War will even be in the Millennium!! We cannot end it nor can we find an answer to it. It is the great necessary evil of our race.

The bible itself says there will be wars and rumors of wars. There have been wars and there will be wars until God deals with satan for the final time.

What would God have us do, as Christians, given a choice, serve in the infantry destroying life or in, say, the medic corps saving life and putting one’s life in jeopardy – laying down your life - for others?

No greater love has any man than this that he lay down hi life for a friend. That is what these soldiers are doing being their brothers keeper.

I propose no answers except to say that, for the Christian to cheer for the destruction of human life, even if it be our designated enemy, seems anomalous to who we are called to be.

I cheer sir only for their freedom not for their destuction. Iraq is finally experiencing freedom. Now they can hear the word of God.

 

[JimB]

No I would not rather see that, furrysmom.

I am glad Jim that you do not want to see such a thing happen. As I said if I read this right guess I didn't huh.

No need to be sarcastic or to take this personal.

That's a bad trait that I have my husband even gets onto me for it sometimes.

I know war will happen as long as unregenerate men live. War will even be in the Millennium!! We cannot end it nor can we find an answer to it. It is the great necessary evil of our race.

The bible itself says there will be wars and rumors of wars. There have been wars and there will be wars until God deals with satan for the final time.

What would God have us do, as Christians, given a choice, serve in the infantry destroying life or in, say, the medic corps saving life and putting one’s life in jeopardy – laying down your life - for others?

No greater love has any man than this that he lay down hi life for a friend. That is what these soldiers are doing being their brothers keeper.

I propose no answers except to say that, for the Christian to cheer for the destruction of human life, even if it be our designated enemy, seems anomalous to who we are called to be.

I cheer sir only for their freedom not for their destuction. Iraq is finally experiencing freedom. Now they can hear the word of God.

What a beautiful response,furrysmom. You are loved.
Jim \o/

 

[S Walch]

LOL....were you even old enough to remember (let alone know) Maggie? Or is that mostly from hearsay from your parents or school texts?

Both