Is War A Sin?

[Shalia]

We're not out there purposely killing the inocent young man we are there trying to help these people get completely free from a murderous tyrant that was and his followers still are taking innocent lives. For the first time in those peoples lives Adamdavid they are now experiencing freedom because we are there. Freedom cost something it cost Jesus his life he died for our freedom. Our soldiers are dying for the Iraqis freedom. No greater hath any man than he lay down his life for a friend.

Who next?

There are murderous tyrants all over the world, some that are FAR worse than Saddam ever thought of being. Unfortunately for the citizens of those countries, they don't have oil. <Or is that fortunately?>

But if we go in and remove from leadership all dictators that are tyrants and take innocent lives, we'll be at war into the 22nd century!

What of North Korea? They not only hate us with a passion, they have nuclear capability to reach LA! Are we to teach said tyrants that the best way to prevent us from squashing their country is to build nukes, and then we'll deal?

Our policies make no sense. We PUT SADDAM IN POWER! We GAVE him the WMD's. And now we kill thousands to get him out of power.

No, I cannot support this war, but my protesting is over. I pray for every troop over there, I pray for friends of mine on boats off the coast <I was in "A" school when the Cole was bombed, this stuff hits home> but I firmly believe we're wrong. The US is my country, and I love her, whether right or wrong. But I'm not going to dress up "wrong" in patriotic colors and not call it what it is.

I pray we don't get into the "tyrant removal" business. Our country can't afford it, and neither can our troops.

 

[~RENEE~]

Who next?

I pray for every troop over there, I pray for friends of mine on boats off the coast <I was in "A" school when the Cole was bombed, this stuff hits home> but I firmly believe we're wrong. QUOTE]

Well we may not agree on this issue but at least we can both pray for our troops.

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

Who next?

Unfortunately for the citizens of those countries, they don't have oil. <Or is that fortunately?>

Hey Shalia, you know I love you, right? But, I just have to ask, what has happened with the oil?

I remember when we went into Haiti, I had a girl on campus say seriously, "I didn't know Haiti had oil?"

The oil thing has never washed with me. And, many of us in the military or who are former military tend to believe the reason many countries so vehemently opposed our going into Iraq was because of the oil but not in the way propagandized by those countries. The 'oil for food' program lined the pockets of, um, let's see...France, Russia, China, the U.N. ... oh, wait, those were the people most loudly denouncing the war...just a little something to make you say, "hmmmmmmm?"

I don't know, if we are simply after the oil, we've done a pretty poor job of it.

 

[Shalia]

Hey Shalia, you know I love you, right? But, I just have to ask, what has happened with the oil?

I remember when we went into Haiti, I had a girl on campus say seriously, "I didn't know Haiti had oil?"

The oil thing has never washed with me. And, many of us in the military or who are former military tend to believe the reason many countries so vehemently opposed our going into Iraq was because of the oil but not in the way propagandized by those countries. The 'oil for food' program lined the pockets of, um, let's see...France, Russia, China, the U.N. ... oh, wait, those were the people most loudly denouncing the war...just a little something to make you say, "hmmmmmmm?"

I don't know, if we are simply after the oil, we've done a pretty poor job of it.

Oh, I know a good amount of it was diverted, and that is lousy. What's worse is it lined the pockets of France and didn't feed the people, just the heirarchy. But what reason would you say was why we'd go into Iraq and not stick around in Somalia, or Chad, or Sudan? Why did we stop fighting Cuba? These dictators can be so much worse. Think Sudan, where Christians are forced out of their homes and having to walk hundreds of miles to live in internment camps by the Muslim government. But I don't hear a cry from America to go "liberate" Sudan!

I'd look up links on oil and stuff, but I'm not entirely certain I can/should at work, seeing as I work for a defense contractor. I'll see if I can find anything later.

And I love you too. <Anyone else think that little kiss guy is kinda creepy?>

 

[~RENEE~]

. <Anyone else think that little kiss guy is kinda creepy?>

Uhhh yeah thanks for voicin it.

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

Oh, I know a good amount of it was diverted, and that is lousy. What's worse is it lined the pockets of France and didn't feed the people, just the heirarchy. But what reason would you say was why we'd go into Iraq and not stick around in Somalia, or Chad, or Sudan? Why did we stop fighting Cuba? These dictators can be so much worse. Think Sudan, where Christians are forced out of their homes and having to walk hundreds of miles to live in internment camps by the Muslim government. But I don't hear a cry from America to go "liberate" Sudan!

I'd look up links on oil and stuff, but I'm not entirely certain I can/should at work, seeing as I work for a defense contractor. I'll see if I can find anything later.

And I love you too. <Anyone else think that little kiss guy is kinda creepy?>

My personal thoughts about why we are there go back to footage I saw while in the military in the 90's. I saw evil, horrendous acts being perpetrated by that government. He was responsible for acts of 'ethnic cleansing' and gassed his own people. Christians were brutalized. Girls were gang raped by his henchmen in front of their families. Fathers were executed in front of their children. Arms were lopped up like it was no big deal. Torture chambers were the norm. I know that when you've watched some of the images, they stay with you. This was the biggest reason I supported the war. The images will remain with me a lifetime.

And, I do believe Saddam had WMD, not because our current President and his administration have told us so but because in the '90s, I attended briefings in which we talked about the WMDs. What happened to them? Who knows. We can take our best guess and I think if they five letters 'S' 'Y' 'R' 'I' 'A' are in your best guess, I'd say you are pretty close.

And, yes, the smoochy guy gives me a case of the heebie jeebies. Somehow, I feel violated when a smoochy face is directed at me so here, have a instead.

 

[adamdavid]

Who next?

There are murderous tyrants all over the world, some that are FAR worse than Saddam ever thought of being. Unfortunately for the citizens of those countries, they don't have oil. <Or is that fortunately?>

But if we go in and remove from leadership all dictators that are tyrants and take innocent lives, we'll be at war into the 22nd century!

What of North Korea? They not only hate us with a passion, they have nuclear capability to reach LA! Are we to teach said tyrants that the best way to prevent us from squashing their country is to build nukes, and then we'll deal?

Our policies make no sense. We PUT SADDAM IN POWER! We GAVE him the WMD's. And now we kill thousands to get him out of power.

No, I cannot support this war, but my protesting is over. I pray for every troop over there, I pray for friends of mine on boats off the coast <I was in "A" school when the Cole was bombed, this stuff hits home> but I firmly believe we're wrong. The US is my country, and I love her, whether right or wrong. But I'm not going to dress up "wrong" in patriotic colors and not call it what it is.

I pray we don't get into the "tyrant removal" business. Our country can't afford it, and neither can our troops.

Yup... ~nods head in agreement...~

 

[DutchLady]

And, I do believe Saddam had WMD, not because our current President and his administration have told us so but because in the '90s, I attended briefings in which we talked about the WMDs. What happened to them? Who knows. We can take our best guess and I think if they five letters 'S' 'Y' 'R' 'I' 'A' are in your best guess, I'd say you are pretty close.

I, too, believe Saddam had WMDs not just because GW Bush et al told us so but because the WORLD has believed it and told us so for 12 years after the Gulf War. GW Bush's big mistake was in telling Saddam we were coming and then waiting months to do so, giving Saddam all the time in the world to move them all elsewhere. Yes, most likely to Syria.

My personal thoughts about why we are there go back to footage I saw while in the military in the 90's. I saw evil, horrendous acts being perpetrated by that government. He was responsible for acts of 'ethnic cleansing' and gassed his own people. Christians were brutalized. Girls were gang raped by his henchmen in front of their families. Fathers were executed in front of their children. Arms were lopped up like it was no big deal. Torture chambers were the norm. I know that when you've watched some of the images, they stay with you. This was the biggest reason I supported the war. The images will remain with me a lifetime.

I'm sure Saddam, his sons and his henchmen did all those things and more. We know he stole millions of dollars that was earmarked for the Iraqi people and built huge underground bunkers, plush palaces in large compounds, etc. for him, his family and his followers while the regular Iraqis were virtually starving.

In 1972 only 44 countries in the whole world were free. The US has led the way for democracy and, in the past 32 years, 45 more countries have had free elections. Another 32 are "partly free". Sixty-three percent (121 out of 192) now have freely elected governments. [source: Freedom House]

The first democratically elected President in 5,000 years was recently sworn in in Afghanistan. After they adopted their constitution, Karzai said: "I pray to God the Almighty that this constitution would lead to building a civil society and achievement of economic, social, political and cultural prosperity for all and ensure peace, equity and brotherhood within the Afghan nation." [as reported by Xinhuanet, the China news service (and NOT by any American journalist, you'll notice)]

About 4 million Afghan refugees have returned to their country, its economy is growing and it has found a place among the community of nations. A UNICEF spokesperson reports a reduction of polio and measles amongst children, fewer landmine injuries, huge numbers of children now going to school (including girls), widows and other women now earning incomes in their own right, etc.

These are REAL PEOPLE, folks. People who just a short time ago were being indoctrinated into terrorism, kept in abject poverty, many being tortured, maimed and killed -- just as were the people of Iraq. We should be praising the Lord that these people are now free. And we should be thankful that our country played a large role in making this happen, first for Afghanistan and now for Iraq.

George Washington, in his first inaugural address, stated that "the preservation of the sacred fire of liberty" was "staked on the experiment entrusted to the hands of the American people." This same experiment is now being entrusted to the people of Afghanistan and Iraq. Afghanistan appears to be carrying the torch, and, hopefully, within a couple years Iraq will follow suit.

Would any of this have happened without the US-led military actions and presense in those countries? Of course not. Did innocent people lose their lives to help make this happen? Certainly, some always do. I would much rather lose my life in the name of freedom than because someone like Saddam decided he didn't like my looks, or whatever. Freedom always has a price.

I am pround of what our military men and women have accomplished, proud of our president and our country.

 

[soldout]

I, too, believe Saddam had WMDs not just because GW Bush et al told us so but because the WORLD has believed it and told us so for 12 years after the Gulf War. GW Bush's big mistake was in telling Saddam we were coming and then waiting months to do so, giving Saddam all the time in the world to move them all elsewhere. Yes, most likely to Syria.




I'm sure Saddam, his sons and his henchmen did all those things and more. We know he stole millions of dollars that was earmarked for the Iraqi people and built huge underground bunkers, plush palaces in large compounds, etc. for him, his family and his followers while the regular Iraqis were virtually starving.

In 1972 only 44 countries in the whole world were free. The US has led the way for democracy and, in the past 32 years, 45 more countries have had free elections. Another 32 are "partly free". Sixty-three percent (121 out of 192) now have freely elected governments. [source: Freedom House]

The first democratically elected President in 5,000 years was recently sworn in in Afghanistan. After they adopted their constitution, Karzai said: "I pray to God the Almighty that this constitution would lead to building a civil society and achievement of economic, social, political and cultural prosperity for all and ensure peace, equity and brotherhood within the Afghan nation." [as reported by Xinhuanet, the China news service (and NOT by any American journalist, you'll notice)]

About 4 million Afghan refugees have returned to their country, its economy is growing and it has found a place among the community of nations. A UNICEF spokesperson reports a reduction of polio and measles amongst children, fewer landmine injuries, huge numbers of children now going to school (including girls), widows and other women now earning incomes in their own right, etc.

These are REAL PEOPLE, folks. People who just a short time ago were being indoctrinated into terrorism, kept in abject poverty, many being tortured, maimed and killed -- just as were the people of Iraq. We should be praising the Lord that these people are now free. And we should be thankful that our country played a large role in making this happen, first for Afghanistan and now for Iraq.

George Washington, in his first inaugural address, stated that "the preservation of the sacred fire of liberty" was "staked on the experiment entrusted to the hands of the American people." This same experiment is now being entrusted to the people of Afghanistan and Iraq. Afghanistan appears to be carrying the torch, and, hopefully, within a couple years Iraq will follow suit.

Would any of this have happened without the US-led military actions and presense in those countries? Of course not. Did innocent people lose their lives to help make this happen? Certainly, some always do. I would much rather lose my life in the name of freedom than because someone like Saddam decided he didn't like my looks, or whatever. Freedom always has a price.

I am pround of what our military men and women have accomplished, proud of our president and our country.

Wow. All I can say is amen, and thank you for taking a stand.

 

[AUSSAM3118]

Who next?

There are murderous tyrants all over the world, some that are FAR worse than Saddam ever thought of being. Unfortunately for the citizens of those countries, they don't have oil. <Or is that fortunately?>

ACTUALLY DIDNT WE REMOVE THE SAME TYPE OF PERSON FROM SERBIA OR BOSNIA(I DONT REMEMBER WICH COUNTRY IT WAS) AND THEY DIDNT HAVCE OIL. HE DID THE SAME THING SADDAM HAS BEEN DOING, ETHNIC CLEANSING. SO WE ARE DEALING WITH KOREA DIFFERENTLY BUT REMEMBER THIS WERE ARE STILL IN KOREA. THERE WAS NEVER A PEACE TREATY WITH KOREA, JUST A CEASE FIRE THE WAR WAS NEVER OFFICALLY OVER. THE SAME THING WITH IRAQ EXCEPT IRAQ VIOLATED THE CEASE FIRE AND FRIED UPON OUR PEACE KEEPING TROOPS NUMEROUS TIMES. HE ALSO REFUSED TO LET UN INSPECTORS INTO THE COUNTRY. AND NOW ALL OF THE SUDDEN THERE IS NO NUKES??? WE HAD EVERY RIGHT TO GO INTO IRAQ. IT WAS NOT FOR OIL SADDAM JUST SIMPLY VIOLATED THE CEASE FIRE.

BY THE WAY THIS IS THE SAME PERSON AS OZZY3118. I HAD PROBLEMS LOGGING ON WITH THAT ACCOUNT.

 

[AUSSAM3118]

I, too, believe Saddam had WMDs not just because GW Bush et al told us so but because the WORLD has believed it and told us so for 12 years after the Gulf War. GW Bush's big mistake was in telling Saddam we were coming and then waiting months to do so, giving Saddam all the time in the world to move them all elsewhere. Yes, most likely to Syria.




I'm sure Saddam, his sons and his henchmen did all those things and more. We know he stole millions of dollars that was earmarked for the Iraqi people and built huge underground bunkers, plush palaces in large compounds, etc. for him, his family and his followers while the regular Iraqis were virtually starving.

In 1972 only 44 countries in the whole world were free. The US has led the way for democracy and, in the past 32 years, 45 more countries have had free elections. Another 32 are "partly free". Sixty-three percent (121 out of 192) now have freely elected governments. [source: Freedom House]

The first democratically elected President in 5,000 years was recently sworn in in Afghanistan. After they adopted their constitution, Karzai said: "I pray to God the Almighty that this constitution would lead to building a civil society and achievement of economic, social, political and cultural prosperity for all and ensure peace, equity and brotherhood within the Afghan nation." [as reported by Xinhuanet, the China news service (and NOT by any American journalist, you'll notice)]

About 4 million Afghan refugees have returned to their country, its economy is growing and it has found a place among the community of nations. A UNICEF spokesperson reports a reduction of polio and measles amongst children, fewer landmine injuries, huge numbers of children now going to school (including girls), widows and other women now earning incomes in their own right, etc.

These are REAL PEOPLE, folks. People who just a short time ago were being indoctrinated into terrorism, kept in abject poverty, many being tortured, maimed and killed -- just as were the people of Iraq. We should be praising the Lord that these people are now free. And we should be thankful that our country played a large role in making this happen, first for Afghanistan and now for Iraq.

George Washington, in his first inaugural address, stated that "the preservation of the sacred fire of liberty" was "staked on the experiment entrusted to the hands of the American people." This same experiment is now being entrusted to the people of Afghanistan and Iraq. Afghanistan appears to be carrying the torch, and, hopefully, within a couple years Iraq will follow suit.

Would any of this have happened without the US-led military actions and presense in those countries? Of course not. Did innocent people lose their lives to help make this happen? Certainly, some always do. I would much rather lose my life in the name of freedom than because someone like Saddam decided he didn't like my looks, or whatever. Freedom always has a price.

I am pround of what our military men and women have accomplished, proud of our president and our country.

Well said lady. another thing that has come to mind. you people that are so against war and are for freedom of speech, how do you think oyu got that freedom and all the other freedoms you probally take for granted. through a war. this couintry was founded on a war that removed a TRYANT. just like the new free iraq is being founded on a war to remove a tryant. so if you think this war is wrong than was the american revolution wrong too??

 

[AUSSAM3118]

unbiased.

If you want the truth you need to go to Rush Limbaugh, Jim Quinn, or Ted Nugent. Nugent was a rock star in another life.

Incidentally, I want to congratulate you on your PM Maggie Thatcher. In 1991, she told Saddam that if he use chem or bio, she would nuke Bagdad. She had backbone.

NUGENT ROCKS!!! the way i see it bush has a backbone too. unlike clinton he did not just sit there idolly when americans were attacked on ther own land(mind you sept 11 was alot more devastating then the first wtc atack) he went after the baztards. he told saddam that we were coming for him because he violated the cease fire( not in those words ut thats what he did) and we did it. the world things were a bunch of thugs picking on people we dont like? who do you think they will be calling if someone like hitler comes into power?