Is this transgender woman displaying toxic masculinity?

[ozso]

"You cut that out now, or you'll go home in an ambulance" 2:07

 

[Chesterton]

Even worse, he's displaying toxic science denial.

 

[The Hour IS AT HAND]

"You cut that out now, or you'll go home in an ambulance" 2:07

It is a clear sign of the times that we are even having this conversation.

 

[ozso]

Even worse, he's displaying toxic science denial.

The science that says women have penises and men have uteruses?

 

[PloverWing]

Well, that's an unproductive snippet of television. What I'm seeing is a bunch of people insulting each other and talking over each other, instead of listening and trying to understand each other.

Was the escalation to violent words inappropriate? Yes. Would Ms. Tur have responded to the insults differently if she'd been socialized female instead of socialized male? I dunno. Maybe.

 

[Chesterton]

The science that says women have penises and men have uteruses?

I heard nothing about that. Did you listen to the clip you posted? It's only a 2:35 clip.

 

[ozso]

Well, that's an unproductive snippet of television. What I'm seeing is a bunch of people insulting each other and talking over each other, instead of listening and trying to understand each other.

Was the escalation to violent words inappropriate? Yes. Would Ms. Tur have responded to the insults differently if she'd been socialized female instead of socialized male? I dunno. Maybe.

Shapiro said that after the show was over, Ms. Tur said she'd be waiting for him out in the parking lot. That's seems like extremely macho behaviour to me for a woman. I bet most of the men in that debate wouldn't have said such things.

 

[ozso]

I heard nothing about that. Did you listen to the clip you posted? It's only a 2:35 clip.

I was asking you what science you were referring to when you said "Even worse, he's displaying toxic science denial.". And were you referring to Tur or Shapiro?

 

[Chesterton]

Well, that's an unproductive snippet of television. What I'm seeing is a bunch of people insulting each other and talking over each other, instead of listening and trying to understand each other.

Was the escalation to violent words inappropriate? Yes. Would Ms. Tur have responded to the insults differently if she'd been socialized female instead of socialized male? I dunno. Maybe.

Nobody insults anybody in that clip. There's just a big guy threatening a smaller guy with violence because he disagrees with him.

 

[Chesterton]

I was asking you what science you were referring to when you said "Even worse, he's displaying toxic science denial.". And were you referring to Tur or Shapiro?

I was referring to Tur, and to the scientific knowledge of chromosomes which Shapiro was trying to discuss before he was threatened.

 

[Dosblade]

Older video and he was just being a guy which he is

 

[ozso]

I was referring to Tur, and to the scientific knowledge of chromosomes which Shapiro was trying to discuss before he was threatened.

Okay got it. Sorry I'm little sleepy right now.

 

[PloverWing]

Nobody insults anybody in that clip. There's just a big guy threatening a smaller guy with violence because he disagrees with him.

There are plenty of insults in the clip. Shapiro's voicing of his anti-trans views is insulting to the transgender person who is, after all, sitting right there. Tur's "You don't know what you're talking about" is insulting to Shapiro.

I'm not familiar with the show that the clip is taken from. It looks like it might be one of those shows that sets people up to insult each other. That is, some shows choose people with opposing views who tend to phrase their views in inflammatory ways, and then seats them next to each other so that the audience can enjoy the fireworks. This show may be one of those.

Shapiro said that after the show was over, Ms. Tur said she'd be waiting for him out in the parking lot. That's seems like extremely macho behaviour to me for a woman. I bet most of the men in that debate wouldn't have said such things.

Possibly. As I noted, Ms. Tur probably received masculine socialization growing up, since she was originally perceived as a boy, and perhaps she was taught different habits around violence than most cis-women are. And habits like that can die slowly. Or, perhaps, it's just her individual personality; women can be given to violent words as well. It's hard to analyze her thoroughly given only a 2-minute clip.

 

[ozso]

Possibly. As I noted, Ms. Tur probably received masculine socialization growing up, since she was originally perceived as a boy, and perhaps she was taught different habits around violence than most cis-women are. And habits like that can die slowly. Or, perhaps, it's just her individual personality; women can be given to violent words as well. It's hard to analyze her thoroughly given only a 2-minute clip.

I think like Jenner, Tur was a rugged dude for a long time. Which is hard to figure out since they're supposed to be feminine mentally at birth. Personally I think at some point, they both developed gender dysphoria. I think that's probably the case with the majority of transexuals.

 

[Chesterton]

There are plenty of insults in the clip. Shapiro's voicing of his anti-trans views is insulting to the transgender person who is, after all, sitting right there. Tur's "You don't know what you're talking about" is insulting to Shapiro.

Well if I voice my anti-flat earth views while sitting next to a flat-earther I'm insulting him or her?

 

[RileyG]

Yes.

Last time I checked, ambulances don't take people home.

The man (zoe) is not a woman. He's a man. Period.

 

[RileyG]

Even worse, he's displaying toxic science denial.

Amen. Men can't become women!

 

[The Hour IS AT HAND]

His name is Ms. Tur!!!!!! Ms-tur...MR! What a LOL! Totally flew over my head the first time.

 

[ozso]

His name is Ms. Tur!!!!!! Ms-tur...MR! What a LOL! Totally flew over my head the first time.

Who knew it was all one big joke?

 

[PloverWing]

Well if I voice my anti-flat earth views while sitting next to a flat-earther I'm insulting him or her?

It's more like saying that people with depression are just lazy and need to pull themselves together, when sitting next to a person who has been diagnosed with clinical depression. Or like saying that people who have physical illnesses are only sick because they don't have enough faith in God's healing power, while sitting next to someone with ALS. Those aren't just abstract opinions; they also deeply affect people's lives, and when the opinions are voiced, it needs to be with care and an awareness of how other people might be hurt by my words.