Is this statement about Mary blasphemous?

[Thekla]

Those who, nonetheless, want to continue to believe in dead Christians are free to do so. Doesn't bother me.

it bugs me; I don't like that the body of our Risen Lord is said to be "gangrenous"

 

[Catherineanne]

Death is the separation of the soul from the body, an "unnatural" state for mankind, as death was not created by God. Christ 'died' on the cross, yet God can never die. Peter attests in his epistle that Christ descended and taught in Hades; thus He taught the souls of those whose bodies had decayed.

Paul teaches that nothing can separate us from the love of God, not even death. Death is defeated and is being defeated and will finally be forever defeated at the end of the creation we call "time". But until then, those who have died are not separated from God, and remain our brothers and sisters alive in the body of Christ. Christ rose, and His body does not contain death; He has conquered death.

Well said!!

 

[Catherineanne]

it bugs me; I don't like that the body of our Risen Lord is said to be "gangrenous"

Who said that? Sounds distinctly dodgy theology to me.

Meanwhile, don't worry, T. If you remember that it is not our job to protect Our Lord and the Theotokos, but their job to protect us, it becomes easier.

 

[Catherineanne]

So, here is the Janet and John explanation of God and time.

Go into your kitchen, find some string, and cut a nice long piece - about three feet long. Then take it into your dining room and lay it onto the table in front of you. You will then see a long piece of string, reaching in a straight line from one end of the table to the other.

The string represents time, and you represent God. The string has a beginning, a middle and an end. As God, you can look at any part of the string, or all of it, whenever you want. You can look at the start, or the middle, or the end. Although the string has a beginning, it is not your beginning. Although the string has a middle, it is not your middle. Although the string has an end, it is not your end. You chose how long to make the string; it is your creation.

Now imagine that a ladybird flies into the room, and lands on the string, and starts to walk along it. At any time, you can choose to gently take the ladybird from that string, and release it into your garden. When the ladybird is in the garden it no longer has anything to do with the string; the string is then irrelevant.

When God takes us from life into eternity time becomes as irrelevant to us, as it is to him. It will matter only because we will know of our loved ones still in time, and we will continue to love them, and to pray for them. The moment we die to this world, we enter eternity.

This is not the same thing as the resurrection of the dead; that comes later. What matters for now is that there is no hiatus between our leaving this world, and our being welcomed by Christ into the next.

 

[Christos Anesti]

Stating the obvious to say that Christians still die.

We still suffer the death of our bodies. In that sense it is certainly correct to say that Christians die. Christians do not suffer spiritual death however and when they are absent from the body (which has died) they are present with the Lord. They are in His presence in spirit and soul and do not lapse into a non-conscious state because of the death of their body. At the second coming they will be united once again with their body which will be glorified.

 

[MamaZ]

Who said that? Sounds distinctly dodgy theology to me.

Meanwhile, don't worry, T. If you remember that it is not our job to protect Our Lord and the Theotokos, but their job to protect us, it becomes easier.

were do we read in the Apostles writings that Mary protects us?

 

[Unashamed Jesus Freak]

where do we read in the Apostles writings that Mary protects us?

I have never seen such writings since Mary isn't ever mentioned again after the Book of Acts.

 

[Thekla]

It is the reality of the body of Christ to protect, encourage and succor one another; to bear each others burdens.

This is demonstrated in Acts and throughout the New Testament; John teaches:
Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is begotten of God, and knoweth God. 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 4:9 Herein was the love of God manifested in us, that God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world that we might live through him. 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. (the First Epistle of John, ch 4)

How can one be of Christ and not love 'one another' ? It cannot be so. If our brothers and sisters in Christ, who are with Christ though not in the body, do not love, they are not of God.

 

[Colin]

Sadly I think this thread is using Mary as a religious football.
I think it's time to stop and reflect.
May the Holy Spirit lead us into the fullness of the truth , and that includes the truth about Mary.

 

[addo]

Nobody answered why is it that the dead are lost without physical resurrection, as it says in 1 Corinthians 15:18... How could they be lost if they are supposedly with God?

 

[Christos Anesti]

Nobody answered why is it that the dead are lost without physical resurrection, as it says in 1 Corinthians 15:18... How could they be lost if they are supposedly with God?

The dead who are in Christ are with the Lord. Not all of the dead are. The state of separation of the body and the spirit is an unnatural state however and is something that Christ will rectify at the resurection of the body.

 

[Thekla]

Nobody answered why is it that the dead are lost without physical resurrection, as it says in 1 Corinthians 15:18... How could they be lost if they are supposedly with God?

God created man as an entirety. Death (and sin) separate man (death means the separation of the soul from the body), and his existence is not natural (the way God created him). We will not be completed (whole) until all are completed, made whole, as a new resurrected creature.

 

[Dorothea]

Once again, you have God subject to time, which is the wrong way round. Eternity is not in time, but outside it.

Good luck trying to come to grips with this.

Catherine is right. Indeed the thief went right to Paradise as Christ said. When Christ went down to hades, broke the chains, bound Satan and opened the tombs of Adam and Eve and others there waiting for Him, the thief already rose or was rising the same time as they did into His Kingdom.

 

[Dorothea]

Sadly I think this thread is using Mary as a religious football.
I think it's time to stop and reflect.
May the Holy Spirit lead us into the fullness of the truth , and that includes the truth about Mary.

Ah, this is nice to see. Thank you for this respectful post on Mary and all in this thread.

 

[Rose_bud]

1 Cor 15:12
Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.


50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

When will death be swallowed up in victory, When we receive our glorified bodies (the incorruptible kind)

If Mary and the saints got their incorruptible bodies, I guess we all missed the sound of the trumpet...

 

[Unashamed Jesus Freak]

Thank you for citing scripture, Rose_bud. I really like that. God bless you.

 

[Dorothea]

1 Cor 15:12
Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.


50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

When will death be swallowed up in victory, When we receive our glorified bodies (the incorruptible kind)

If Mary and the saints got their incorruptible bodies, I guess we all missed the sound of the trumpet...

So, what happens to us when we die? Where do our souls go, Rose? Do they go back to the ground (dust)? If that were the case, then the Resurrection was for nothing. That was the whole point of His dying on the cross, so that we could be with Him once again in His Kingdom.

Mary and the Saints got their incorruptible bodies? Did somebody say that?

 

[Dorothea]

My apologies. My frustration is making me crabby. I am going to take a break now. Take care and God bless all.

 

[Thekla]

Nothing, not even death, can separate us from the love of God:

For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-39

God is love (John); nothing can separate us from God.

We are the body of Christ, and all parts of the body are needful:

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14For the body is not one member, but many.
15If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.

Corinthians 12

It is through the Holy Spirit that we become the body of Christ.

Christ is not a little bit in and a little bit out of the tomb. His body is whole, and is not separated -- even by death, or principalities or powers,etc.

 

[Rose_bud]

Yes, it's lovely to quote Scripture all the time, but it is a bit of a waste of time if one does not interpret correctly or understand the correct meaning of the Scriptures they post.

Does that scripture really need an interpretation?.... I thought it was quite obvious.

As for souls going to the dust... I think what is needed is a distinction between the body, soul and spirit (but thats for another thread)...

... what is made of dust return to dust. (genesis 3 :19)..

Ecclesiastes 9
5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun