Is this lying?

jehoiakim

Servant
Jun 24, 2011
1,166
69
New Jersey
✟17,202.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
It is in away comparing apples to submarines, but we have to be logically consistent and at least and follow the trail to where it naturally leads. My change in strategy comes from Romans 14 which I think can apply quite well in this situation. Personally I think he is worried about nothing, but if he is going to violate his own conscience that is not good for where he is at right now. I would like him to see things the same way I do, but I don't see that happening and I would rather his conscience be clean. If he violates his own conscious I believe it would become sin. Even though it isn't such a bad thing he would have chosen something he believes is wrong over Gods way, which is not healthy at all.
 
Upvote 0

Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2009
28,369
7,745
Canada
✟722,927.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
It is in away comparing apples to submarines, but we have to be logically consistent and at least and follow the trail to where it naturally leads. My change in strategy comes from Romans 14 which I think can apply quite well in this situation. Personally I think he is worried about nothing, but if he is going to violate his own conscience that is not good for where he is at right now. I would like him to see things the same way I do, but I don't see that happening and I would rather his conscience be clean. If he violates his own conscious I believe it would become sin. Even though it isn't such a bad thing he would have chosen something he believes is wrong over Gods way, which is not healthy at all.

Yeah .. anything that doesn't come from faith is sin . we believe therefore we speak, we believe therefore we live move and have our being in Him .

so if you're unsure . don't do anything . because doing something when you're unsure is still sin because of the fear involved . and nothing good can come of it .
 
Upvote 0

help_the_lord

Everything tastes better with cheese
Dec 15, 2009
493
31
✟15,830.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
It is in away comparing apples to submarines, but we have to be logically consistent and at least and follow the trail to where it naturally leads. My change in strategy comes from Romans 14 which I think can apply quite well in this situation. Personally I think he is worried about nothing, but if he is going to violate his own conscience that is not good for where he is at right now. I would like him to see things the same way I do, but I don't see that happening and I would rather his conscience be clean. If he violates his own conscious I believe it would become sin. Even though it isn't such a bad thing he would have chosen something he believes is wrong over Gods way, which is not healthy at all.

I understand your position and I applaud your effeort in presenting it. However this thread provides you with ample opportunity to edify the body of Christ. So that in the future she can act without doubt or concern having her position confirmed by 2 or 3 witnesses that what she is doing is right in the eyes of God. Thats why it's so important to share your perspective as it relates to scripture not just your opinions based on your own convictions. In such a manners it's also equally important if your not going to offer your thoughts on it that you still in some way make an effort to edify her in her quest for truth. So what we need to conclude from this is that you've been given a marvelous opportunity to teach. :)

For it says As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten

It also says Titus 1:13
This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in faith

And finally
Proverbs 27: 5
Open rebuke is better than secret love
 
Upvote 0

jehoiakim

Servant
Jun 24, 2011
1,166
69
New Jersey
✟17,202.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Terene...

I really think you are pursuing the wrong career path. As I said and it seems like everyone else feels this is not really a big deal, it is practice for a future career.

I wish I could advise you better what to do. I know your culture is very different then ours and if you were an American it is very unlikely you would receive so much pressure from your parents to peruse a degree that you are so uncomfortable with. I don't know what to tell you to do. Is there another career path that you are interested in or is it just that you know this one does not interest you?
 
Upvote 0

Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2009
28,369
7,745
Canada
✟722,927.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
I think from this vantage point we cannot make that kind of assessment . she needs to make that decision . our role is to help her come to it by being a sounding board . when it comes down to it, it doesn't matter what we think . it matters what God thinks, she needs to be confident in her own mind and heart this is what God wants for her, it is not what God wants for her . but whatever the case may be . she must be convinced in her own mind .
 
Upvote 0

Johnnz

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2004
14,082
1,002
82
New Zealand
✟74,521.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
While upholding our values we must not forget we live in a fallen world, and sometimes it is just not practical to live out an ideal standard. Its becomes a matter of wisdom to decide what is appropriate. Some examples:

God chose and blessed Jacob, even though he acted very badly - deceived his father.
David feigned insanity for quite some time
Hosea was told to marry a prostitute
Isaiah had to go around naked for some time
Paul taught that on some issues, including food offered to idols personal conviction without judgement from others should prevail.

It's not easy living out one's faith in a complex society.

John
NZ
 
Upvote 0

Angelfrog

Rock, paper, JESUS! I win!
Oct 22, 2009
882
86
Sitting on a cloud in England.
✟9,863.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Terene, please don't think I'm being unkind- but this does seem to be a case of nitpicking.

Hon, are you saying that you believe EVERY single thing that is not 100% total and utter truth is wrong? In which case you DO believe that acting is wrong, and so on?

Where do you draw the line?

Should we then refuse to read novels (no matter how well written or how pure the subject matter) because the events in them are fictitious?

One could argue that Jesus himself did wrong and was dishonest. After all, he told stories- the parables. Nowhere in my Bible can I find Jesus giving a disclaimer that what he was about to say was fictional- he simply spoke. 'A man went up from Jericho.... A man had two sons....' and so on. Yet everyone understood that they were stories meant to illustrate a point.
OK Jesus wasn't portraying the characters by acting the story out- but you could say he was narrating an event that never happened in reality, therefore he was lying.

I don't really see a huge difference between narrating a story and physically portraying one. Everyone knows it isn't real.

As for role play- thank God for it, quite literally!

I've worked with children with learning difficulties, challenging behaviours, conditions and from some horrible backgrounds. In my job, we made frequent use of role play.

Having to act the part of another character or type of person enabled those children to work through how someone might feel. One boy who bullied others took part in role play sessions where my colleague and I would act out the part of a bully and and the one being picked on- and he would then roleplay the part of a third person who would talk to the 'bully' and explain why the actions were wrong and what was more appropriate behaviour. Over a few sessions, he began to make the transition from telling someone in a fictional situation why bullying was wrong, to recognising it in his own behaviour and to apply his own advice to himself. It was so much more effective than simply saying 'What you're doing is wrong because it's mean and hurtful'

Difficult situations can be worked through and possible reactions explored in a safe setting through roleplay, enabling the child to take the solutions and confidence gained in to real life. It also helped take the pressure of a child lacking in confidence, because it was just pretend.

It's also used in the same way for adults, of course, not just children.

We also made use of roleplay during staff training sessions. Often very difficult situations could be worked out and scenarios we hadn't thought of brought to light. Often professional course tutors would take us through these.
I remember a particularly helpful session when we had to act the part of a troublesome, disruptive and angry child in the classroom. Not only did it bring out many coping strategies for us as staff to take into the classroom with us but it was a real eye opener to see things from the perspective of the child and helped us to understand that sort of situation from a child's point of view far better than just being told about it.

Roleplay was one of our best, most effective tools.

Many jobs now have roleplay scenarios as part of the interview, too. It helps the employer to get an idea of the sort of person you are by how you would react if you held that position or if you were a manager eventually or whatever. It shows them whether or not you can think on your feet, if you stay calm, even if you're playing the part of someone else.

Just as a thought, would you also say that things such as Nativity plays are wrong? I mean the children pretending to be Mary and Joseph and Shepherds and so on aren't really those people- so are they sinning by being dishonest?

I promise you I'm not trying to be facetious- I'm genuinely interested to see where you draw the line.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

paul1149

that your faith might rest in the power of God
Site Supporter
Mar 22, 2011
8,460
5,268
NY
✟674,964.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
IIUC, this is an abstract exercise where everyone knows that the facts are made-up. Therefore it's not lying. What's more, it has a positive purpose - to teach business skills such as how to present information to potential clients. When you get out into the real business world, THEN you will be confronted with the temptation to use that skill dishonestly. But now, no, it's abstract, has a morally acceptable purpose, and has nothing to do with lying.

When Naaman the leper went back to Syria, healed and praising the God of Israel, he asked Eliisha if it would be ok to enter into the temple of idols as part of his court duties (2Ki 5.18). Elisha saw his heart, and did not invoke legalism. He gave his blessing in the matter.

It's possible to be righteous overmuch (Eccl 7.16). And it's not a good thing. Things not in black and white are an matter of individual conscience, but I feel you are not on solid ground with your objections in this case.
 
Upvote 0

Incariol

Newbie
Apr 22, 2011
5,710
251
✟7,523.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Dear help_the_lord,

How is role-playing not considered lying since it involves misrepresenting yourself as someone you are not? Misrepresentation is in itself dishonest, isn't it?

Because acting doesn't actually involve deception. Unless your class is composed of idiots, everyone will understand you are just practicing.

You should talk to a pastor, your interpretation of verses against lying is unbelievably extreme.
 
Upvote 0

Hospes

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2005
1,245
117
Arizona
Visit site
✟48,887.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Terene, please don't think I'm being unkind- but this does seem to be a case of nitpicking.

Hon, are you saying that you believe EVERY single thing that is not 100% total and utter truth is wrong? In which case you DO believe that acting is wrong, and so on?

Where do you draw the line?

Should we then refuse to read novels (no matter how well written or how pure the subject matter) because the events in them are fictitious?

One could argue that Jesus himself did wrong and was dishonest. After all, he told stories- the parables. Nowhere in my Bible can I find Jesus giving a disclaimer that what he was about to say was fictional- he simply spoke. 'A man went up from Jericho.... A man had two sons....' and so on. Yet everyone understood that they were stories meant to illustrate a point.
OK Jesus wasn't portraying the characters by acting the story out- but you could say he was narrating an event that never happened in reality, therefore he was lying.

I don't really see a huge difference between narrating a story and physically portraying one. Everyone knows it isn't real.

As for role play- thank God for it, quite literally!

I've worked with children with learning difficulties, challenging behaviours, conditions and from some horrible backgrounds. In my job, we made frequent use of role play.

Having to act the part of another character or type of person enabled those children to work through how someone might feel. One boy who bullied others took part in role play sessions where my colleague and I would act out the part of a bully and and the one being picked on- and he would then roleplay the part of a third person who would talk to the 'bully' and explain why the actions were wrong and what was more appropriate behaviour. Over a few sessions, he began to make the transition from telling someone in a fictional situation why bullying was wrong, to recognising it in his own behaviour and to apply his own advice to himself. It was so much more effective than simply saying 'What you're doing is wrong because it's mean and hurtful'

Difficult situations can be worked through and possible reactions explored in a safe setting through roleplay, enabling the child to take the solutions and confidence gained in to real life. It also helped take the pressure of a child lacking in confidence, because it was just pretend.

It's also used in the same way for adults, of course, not just children.

We also made use of roleplay during staff training sessions. Often very difficult situations could be worked out and scenarios we hadn't thought of brought to light. Often professional course tutors would take us through these.
I remember a particularly helpful session when we had to act the part of a troublesome, disruptive and angry child in the classroom. Not only did it bring out many coping strategies for us as staff to take into the classroom with us but it was a real eye opener to see things from the perspective of the child and helped us to understand that sort of situation from a child's point of view far better than just being told about it.

Roleplay was one of our best, most effective tools.

Many jobs now have roleplay scenarios as part of the interview, too. It helps the employer to get an idea of the sort of person you are by how you would react if you held that position or if you were a manager eventually or whatever. It shows them whether or not you can think on your feet, if you stay calm, even if you're playing the part of someone else.

Just as a thought, would you also say that things such as Nativity plays are wrong? I mean the children pretending to be Mary and Joseph and Shepherds and so on aren't really those people- so are they sinning by being dishonest?

I promise you I'm not trying to be facetious- I'm genuinely interested to see where you draw the line.

Excellent post.
 
Upvote 0