is there such a thing as a straight line?

[sarxweh]

In college I was fortunate enough to have the work study assignment of setting up and breaking down science lab. Typically my duties were "after hours", which meant whether it was very early in the morning or late in the afternoon, I was alone in a barren wasteland of instruments, slime, and scary building sounds. And being so uncomforted by the ill company of the preserved and lifeless specimen surrounding me in darkened hallways of such philosophically ironic posters as "What Aether is not...", I considered my state and asked an important question:

"What exactly am I doing here?"

Which turned my attention to the monotonous brigade of redundantly stacked identical plastic buckets before me in the upright shower known as the "bucket wash".

I stacked them perfectly, I assure you. I washed and dried and though the surface was level (I assumed), the more I stacked, because the buckets had been "manufactured" (by the same machine, I assumed), each bucket had the least amount of variation which allowed for some sway (in a stack of a hundred buckets, or 25 feet roughly - they stood up till they fell over...).

Then I thought to myself of other things such as the top of a door jamb, or a steel I-beam, or even a laser beam of ultraviolet light, etc. I wondered if regardless of length, supposing I had a limitless number of the same object, or an unlimited power source to project something like a laser across the universe, could I ever, even with a perfect material achieve something as theoretically perfect as "a straight line".

My own conclusion was no. There is no such thing as a straight line in our universe. The straight line is purely theoretical, or hypothetical in nature.

But obviously, somehow, the straight line does exist, since I was using it as my comparative paradigm for all the things I could imagine experiencing.

But you tell me, is there such a thing as a straight line?

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

Infinitely? Not within a universe nor between them. But above and below the metaversal stack of infinite universes, within the original infinite substance, straight lines of information propagation are possible but only in parallel with the planar orientation of the metaversal stack. Or else they would run into it.

The first establishment (The Beginning of Time) in the original infinite substance (borderless singularity) is an infinite plane. This travels the now established "downwards" leaving/creating a holographic FCC sphere stack of cavitated void space universes in it's wake.

 

[lesliedellow]

A straight line is a curve of constant gradient.

Perfect examples of almost any idealised mathematical concept will be difficult to find in the physical universe.

 

[Viren]

It depends on how perfect you want it. In nature straight lines are virtually non-existent.

 

[essentialsaltes]

My own conclusion was no. There is no such thing as a straight line in our universe. The straight line is purely theoretical, or hypothetical in nature...
But you tell me, is there such a thing as a straight line?

As usual, it depends what you mean.

In Euclidean geometry, the line has no thickness, and is not made of anything but points, which have no nothing. Needless to say the Euclidean line does not exist as a real object like a banana. It's an idea.

If by straight line, you mean the shortest distance connecting two points, then a laser beam in a vacuum would follow a straight line. (Indeed, any object interacting solely with gravity would follow a straight line.)

On the surface of the earth the shortest distance between two points is a great circle route. It isn't a 'straight line' in the usual sense, because the space (the surface of the earth) is curved. In a curved space, the shortest distance is generally not a line, but a geodesic curve.

General relativity tells us that space is itself curved, and an important consequence is that "the world line of a particle free from all external, non-gravitational force, is a particular type of geodesic. In other words, a freely moving or falling particle always moves along a geodesic."

 

[Chesterton]

But you tell me, is there such a thing as a straight line?

________________________________________________

 

[sarxweh]

As usual, it depends what you mean.

?

In Euclidean geometry, the line has no thickness, and is not made of anything but points, which have no nothing.

Its theoretical; got it. Do you mean something or nothing no nothing= something

Needless to say the Euclidean line does not exist as a real object like a banana. It's an idea.

Of course a euclidian line is also not "curved"

If by straight line, you mean the shortest distance connecting two points, then a laser beam in a vacuum would follow a straight line. (Indeed, any object interacting solely with gravity would follow a straight line.)

That's not exactly what I mean. Instead, I think I mean the greatest distance between two points. Would that type of line be straight.

Also, doesn't gravity have an effect in space. Note: the curvature of light from the sun??

On the surface of the earth the shortest distance between two points is a great circle route. It isn't a 'straight line' in the usual sense, because the space (the surface of the earth) is curved. In a curved space, the shortest distance is generally not a line, but a geodesic curve.

That itself is irrelevant given that the world is not as big as the known space in the universe. I guess the size of the universe is expansive enough for my question, however.

---
Where I realize there is limited verification on earth, is there physical justification elsewhere? theoretically yes. But physically, no.

General relativity tells us that space is itself curved, and an important consequence is that "the world line of a particle free from all external, non-gravitational force, is a particular type of geodesic. In other words, a freely moving or falling particle always moves along a geodesic."

I bet when the road is curvy you still stay in the same lane even when you know there's no oncoming traffic

 

[sarxweh]

________________________________________________

nice one

 

[Chesterton]

nice one

Before a geometrist corrects me, yes I know it is a line segment, and not a line.

 

[sarxweh]

Looks pretty straight to me *hic*

 

[quatona]

But you tell me, is there such a thing as a straight line?

For me personally, all that counts is that it is sufficiently straight for the given purpose.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Also, doesn't gravity have an effect in space. Note: the curvature of light from the sun??

Exactly. That's what I'm saying.

Light acts to take the shortest path.

If the universe were flat, light would travel in straight lines.

But the universe is not flat, so light travels in curves, but these curves are analogous to great circle routes. They are the closest thing to straight lines that exist in a curved space.

"In mathematics, particularly differential geometry, a geodesic is a generalization of the notion of a "straight line" to "curved spaces". "

 

[ErezY]

I think of time, and infinity. A straight line is a 'segment'. Western thought says time is linear, eastern though says time is circular. Using western thought it seems impossible to have an infinitly straight line. But that is because this perspective sees time as a segment, and that is straight. But this perspective can not see time as a continum. God is infinite, outside of time. This is why things of God have at least two meanings. Like the way Moses patterns Christ. He was, he is and he will be. His very name implies a circle, not a linear existence. Christ existed before the world began..........

A line is straight as long as it's a segment. Mankind within time can recognise this. But I believe a person can be revealed the wheels within the wheels per say, when the Spirit gives the vision. Like John in Revelation.

 

[Gene2memE]

If you mess about with math enough, you can make a straight line where every point on the line is curving...

Great podcast on the notion of infinities. Listen out for "infinitely kinky functions":

The Infinite Monkey Cage | Series 9 - 4. To Infinity and Beyond | Radio Times

 

[sarxweh]

For me personally, all that counts is that it is sufficiently straight for the given purpose.

Well, given the buckets analogy, not even straight is straight. What does "sufficient" mean if all that you perceive as straight is actually curved?

 

[sarxweh]

I think of time, and infinity. A straight line is a 'segment'.

I'm with you on this

Western thought says time is linear, eastern though says time is circular. Using western thought it seems impossible to have an infinitely straight line.

What? Why? How exactly is western thought a lesser platform for infinity? I'm not offended. Seems like a less redundant platform, but theoretically just as plausible for "infinity"

Wait, are you pictorial in your thinking? My wife is like this. She has to see a picture to bring it full circle and have everything click. Of course she's american Indian, so I'm not sure if you would consider that east or west...

But that is because this perspective sees time as a segment, and that is straight.

Does it? I'm not so sure. Maybe it does. What do you mean?

But this perspective can not see time as a continuum.

Again, Why?

God is infinite, outside of time. This is why things of God have at least two meanings. Like the way Moses patterns Christ. He was, he is and he will be. His very name implies a circle, not a linear existence. Christ existed before the world began..........

That's a lot of dots. Perhaps gods could have as many meanings as there are people... Why limit yourself?

A line is straight as long as it's a segment. Mankind within time can recognise this. But I believe a person can be revealed the wheels within the wheels per say, when the Spirit gives the vision. Like John in Revelation.

Okay, but I will press the point. In my analogy, it is only a single bucket which could be considered "straight" yet even this singular "point" in the segment is itself imperfect since by its nature (from the manufacturer) it is imperfect (original) and unlike its many, many other copies.

Before you start compiling conclusions, let's get the problems "straight"

 

[quatona]

Well, given the buckets analogy, not even straight is straight. What does "sufficient" mean if all that you perceive as straight is actually curved?

I said "sufficiently straight for the given purpose". So what is sufficient depends on the given purpose.
E.g. if you want to have a piston going through a cylinder in order to compress a gas, the walls of the piston and the cylinder are sufficiently straight if gas isn´t emitted in the process.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

All kinds of geometry are possible in theory. In the real (physical) world there are no straight lines, which are actualised on paper etc, because all lines are upon a grainy world I think. But as abstracta (abstract objects) there are all kinds of line, including straight ones.

 

[CryOfALion]

Philosophically speaking...

No. I would cynically reject anything with a linear trajectory since naturally most all things interact curvilinearly. And, those things that seem straight are because of the particular reference frame.

And, since each respective infinity generates the space for the field of respective rings (and, is not an actual number number,) you are forced to assume an approximation at the most infinitesimal point on a particular line (or cylinder).

It is interesting to compare the ideas of enlightenment, perfection and such with these concepts, especially linearity. On one hand, one would say only the respective "greats" actually could achieve perfectly straight and narrow lives to Heaven (like Christ.) But, interestingly enough other champions of religious enlightenment argue that refinement of self can lead to "heaven." And, so when you mix math, philosophy, and religion you can maybe see where the "everyone has their own path to enlightenment" philosophy may have come from.

Even curved lines can appear straight in the right reference frame. And so, one could philosophically akin one's own life as "straight," or righteous in one's own reference frame, or world/ego.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Perhaps if the straight line was infinitesimally short, but not quite zero. Two quantised volumes of space that are next door neighbors?


eudaimonia,

Mark