Is there salvation without Mary?

[fide]

Yes, a love of Mary is pulled along by Love.

We can not imagine that Jesus did not love Mary, the Woman who bore Him, fed Him, held Him, loved Him, clothed Him, helped Him take His first steps, and raised Him. And was there at His death.

Love will help us to love Mary. And to approach her with awe, love, humility, and amazement.

Thank you, Anna-Grace, for your contributions here, and may the Lord continue to bless you.

The world is growing cold, hearts are hardening, Mary - and her Son! - are increasingly disrespected, marginalized, ignored as irrelevant. In an address to the Legion of Mary, St. John Paul II said,

"Where the Mother is, there too is the Son. When one moves away from the Mother, sooner or later he ends up keeping distant from the Son as well. It is no wonder that today, in various sectors of secularised society, we note a widespread crisis of faith in God, preceded by a drop in devotion to the Virgin Mother."
(from an an address to Legionaries in Italy, 30th October 1982, recorded in the Handbook of the Legion of Mary)​

 

[Michael Bollinger]

Mary only giving birth to and only mothering the humanity of Jesus is a condemned heresy! She is the mother of His entire person, He is God and she is His mother!

 

[Placemat]

O Virgin Immaculate, Mother of God and my Mother, from your sublime heights turn your eyes of pity on me. Filled with confidence in your goodness and knowing full well your power, I beg you to extend to me your assistance in the journey of life, which is so full of dangers for my soul. In order that I may never be a slave of the devil through sin, but may ever live with my heart humble and pure, I entrust myself wholly to you. I consecrate my heart to you forever, my only desire being to love your divine Son, Jesus. Mary, none of your devout servants has ever perished; may I, too, be saved. Amen.

Saint Ephraem of Edessa

Rather an odd prayer, from my perspective, granted not a Catholic one....but it is my belief that when you are born again that you love Jesus and place your faith and trust in HIM..'consecrating' (using that terminology) your life to/in Him and no one else.

 

[Placemat]

Yes, a love of Mary is pulled along by Love.

We can not imagine that Jesus did not love Mary, the Woman who bore Him, fed Him, held Him, loved Him, clothed Him, helped Him take His first steps, and raised Him. And was there at His death.

Love will help us to love Mary. And to approach her with awe, love, humility, and amazement.

Of course Jesus loved her very much, both as His mother and with the knowledge of her obedience and faithfulness, however He did say to go to Him:

Matthew 11:28-30
New International Version
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

And the Apostles who were granted His power and authority taught that we are to turn/go to Him with confidence and assurance - not to anyone else.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Of course Jesus loved her very much, both as His mother and with the knowledge of her obedience and faithfulness, however He did say to go to Him:

Matthew 11:28-30
New International Version
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

And the Apostles who were granted His power and authority taught that we are to turn/go to Him with confidence and assurance - not to anyone else.

Which raises the question as to why any Christian would want to go to anyone but Jesus Christ.

 

[fide]

Of course Jesus loved her very much, both as His mother and with the knowledge of her obedience and faithfulness, however He did say to go to Him:

Matthew 11:28-30
New International Version
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

And the Apostles who were granted His power and authority taught that we are to turn/go to Him with confidence and assurance - not to anyone else.

Yet you (rightly) seek and find and go to Jesus through the written and supernatural assistance of His Apostles - do you not? Scripture testifies to this, many times and ways, such as:

John 20:30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
John 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.​

Why do you use these men - the Apostle John - to get to Jesus? Why not just "go straight to Him"? BECAUSE BY HIS WILL AND PLAN, we need to find Him through His Body the Church! The Church includes the Apostle John, and His mother Mary, and you and me (if we are faithful).

The Christian Faith is not "Jesus and me" - Christ works through the complete Body of Christ, Head and members, by His design and intention. Thus He sent the Church to "make disciples" - to make learners of Him and His will. Through the Church!

 

[Placemat]

Yet you (rightly) seek and find and go to Jesus through the written and supernatural assistance of His Apostles - do you not? Scripture testifies to this, many times and ways, such as:

John 20:30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
John 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.​

Why do you use these men - the Apostle John - to get to Jesus? Why not just "go straight to Him"? BECAUSE BY HIS WILL AND PLAN, we need to find Him through His Body the Church! The Church includes the Apostle John, and His mother Mary, and you and me (if we are faithful).

The Christian Faith is not "Jesus and me" - Christ works through the complete Body of Christ, Head and members, by His design and intention. Thus He sent the Church to "make disciples" - to make learners of Him and His will. Through the Church!

John 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.

What life in His name did Saint Ephraim have.......???

Prayer to Mary from Post #339:

O Virgin Immaculate, Mother of God and my Mother, from your sublime heights turn your eyes of pity on me. Filled with confidence in your goodness and knowing full well your power, I beg you to extend to me your assistance in the journey of life, which is so full of dangers for my soul. In order that I may never be a slave of the devil through sin, but may ever live with my heart humble and pure, I entrust myself wholly to you. I consecrate my heart to you forever, my only desire being to love your divine Son, Jesus. Mary, none of your devout servants has ever perished; may I, too, be saved. Amen.

Saint Ephraem of Edessa

 

[fide]

John 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.

What life in His name did Saint Ephraim have.......???

Prayer to Mary from Post #339:

O Virgin Immaculate, Mother of God and my Mother, from your sublime heights turn your eyes of pity on me. Filled with confidence in your goodness and knowing full well your power, I beg you to extend to me your assistance in the journey of life, which is so full of dangers for my soul. In order that I may never be a slave of the devil through sin, but may ever live with my heart humble and pure, I entrust myself wholly to you. I consecrate my heart to you forever, my only desire being to love your divine Son, Jesus. Mary, none of your devout servants has ever perished; may I, too, be saved. Amen.

Saint Ephraem of Edessa

There is only one life that is eternal, that Christ died and lives to call all of humanity into - that is, HIS life. When/if one is born again into this new life, He/she is in Christ, living a share in the divine and eternal life. All the saints share in this life, the life of Christ: they are in His Body, in Him with Him being the Head of the Body. Today they, the saints in heaven, pray for us on earth, for us in the Church militant, still fighting against sin and striving and working in Him for holiness, for sanctification in Him.

Mary, His mother and our mother in Him, is the highest of all saints in holiness, by the grace and intention of God. She, above all the saints, we ought to seek for prayers, for intercession and for spiritual helps in Him our Lord. We - all the saints in heaven and on earth - ought to be in prayer for all struggling for the fullness of life in Christ, especially for those in most need of prayer. In this way we are in obedience to Jesus, who commanded His new commandment, that we love one another as He has loved us.

None of this is "rocket science." It is simple, almost obvious, the traditional Faith of the Church, from the beginning.

 

[bbbbbbb]

There is only one life that is eternal, that Christ died and lives to call all of humanity into - that is, HIS life. When/if one is born again into this new life, He/she is in Christ, living a share in the divine and eternal life. All the saints share in this life, the life of Christ: they are in His Body, in Him with Him being the Head of the Body. Today they, the saints in heaven, pray for us on earth, for us in the Church militant, still fighting against sin and striving and working in Him for holiness, for sanctification in Him.

Mary, His mother and our mother in Him, is the highest of all saints in holiness, by the grace and intention of God. She, above all the saints, we ought to seek for prayers, for intercession and for spiritual helps in Him our Lord. We - all the saints in heaven and on earth - ought to be in prayer for all struggling for the fullness of life in Christ, especially for those in most need of prayer. In this way we are in obedience to Jesus, who commanded His new commandment, that we love one another as He has loved us.

None of this is "rocket science." It is simple, almost obvious, the traditional Faith of the Church, from the beginning.

The great pity, of course, is that none of the writers of the New Testament mentioned any of this, much less such dogmas as the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption. Why is that?

 

[concretecamper]

The great pity, of course, is that none of the writers of the New Testament mentioned any of this, much less such dogmas as the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption. Why is that?

it is not a great pity. The New Teatament was put together by the Church as writings that were permitted to be read at the Liturgy. It was not compiled to be the sum total of the Christian faith.

 

[bbbbbbb]

it is not a great pity. The New Teatament was put together by the Church as writings that were permitted to be read at the Liturgy. It was not compiled to be the sum total of the Christian faith.

Maybe not, but it does cover major dogmas, albeit none of the Marian dogmas. That is peculiar to say the least, but that is my own ignorant opinion, of course.

 

[fide]

The great pity, of course, is that none of the writers of the New Testament mentioned any of this, much less such dogmas as the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption. Why is that?

Which writer(s) of the New Testament list the specific books that must be included in the complete revelation of all truth from God? On the other hand, we do find these that proclaim the incompleteness of what was written:

Jn 20:30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
Jn 21:25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.​

And there is also this, about Mary, Jesus proclaiming Mary to be mother to all the disciples whom Jesus loves:

Jn 19:26 When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son!"
Jn 19:27 Then he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother!" And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.​

Are you or are you not, a disciple whom Jesus loves? If so, Mary IS your mother in Christ. And you are to honor your mother! As Jesus does!

And there is this, for all disciples obedient to Jesus and the Spirit Whom He promised to send:

Jn 14:15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
Jn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever,
Jn 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.​

.....

Jn 14:25 "These things I have spoken to you, while I am still with you.
Jn 14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.​

Are you listening to Him, or only to what you can understand here and now in the Scriptures?

Scripture must be heard and understood in the same Spirit in which it was written. This is the reason the Catholic Faith sounds so "different" from the sola-scriptura protestant churches. Only the Catholic Church has been there from the beginning.

 

[fide]

Maybe not, but it does cover major dogmas, albeit none of the Marian dogmas. That is peculiar to say the least, but that is my own ignorant opinion, of course.

Does Jesus want His disciples to believe only what some call "major dogmas"? Did Jesus come to earth, teach and die, and then send His Spirit to lead His own into "all the Truth", just so some could pick and choose what THEY think is "important"? What could God say to you of His way and His will, that could be discarded and ignored?

Can God say anything unimportant?

 

[concretecamper]

but it does cover major dogmas

some, not all

albeit none of the Marian dogmas

as implicit as it does concerning the dogmas concerning the Trinity.

That is peculiar to say the least,

not peculiar at all. We are commanded to listen to the Church, we are never commanded to listen to the Bible.

but that is my own ignorant opinion, of course

we all known that.

 

[Placemat]

There is only one life that is eternal, that Christ died and lives to call all of humanity into - that is, HIS life. When/if one is born again into this new life, He/she is in Christ, living a share in the divine and eternal life. All the saints share in this life, the life of Christ: they are in His Body, in Him with Him being the Head of the Body.

And yet you have -

Prayer to Mary from Post #339:

O Virgin Immaculate, Mother of God and my Mother, from your sublime heights turn your eyes of pity on me. Filled with confidence in your goodness and knowing full well your power, I beg you to extend to me your assistance in the journey of life, which is so full of dangers for my soul. In order that I may never be a slave of the devil through sin, but may ever live with my heart humble and pure, I entrust myself wholly to you. I consecrate my heart to you forever, my only desire being to love your divine Son, Jesus. Mary, none of your devout servants has ever perished; may I, too, be saved. Amen.

Saint Ephraem of Edessa

Mary, His mother and our mother in Him, is the highest of all saints in holiness, by the grace and intention of God. She, above all the saints, we ought to seek for prayers, for intercession and for spiritual helps in Him our Lord. We - all the saints in heaven and on earth - ought to be in prayer for all struggling for the fullness of life in Christ, especially for those in most need of prayer. In this way we are in obedience to Jesus, who commanded His new commandment, that we love one another as He has loved us.

None of this is "rocket science." It is simple, almost obvious, the traditional Faith of the Church, from the beginning.

I totally agree, not "rocket science" at all, more like developed, man made doctrine and certainly not what the Apostles taught or preached when they were establishing His church(es) from the beginning. They preached Christ Jesus and commended all believers to trust in Him, have faith in Him and to go boldly(with confidence) before His throne with our petitions.

 

[Placemat]

it is not a great pity. The New Teatament was put together by the Church as writings that were permitted to be read at the Liturgy. It was not compiled to be the sum total of the Christian faith.

And I thank God that the New Testament was finally made available and allowed to be read by everyone, not just "read at the Liturgy"!

 

[Placemat]

Which writer(s) of the New Testament list the specific books that must be included in the complete revelation of all truth from God? On the other hand, we do find these that proclaim the incompleteness of what was written:

Jn 20:30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
Jn 21:25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.​

And what is your point???​

And there is also this, about Mary, Jesus proclaiming Mary to be mother to all the disciples whom Jesus loves:

Jn 19:26 When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son!"
Jn 19:27 Then he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother!" And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.​

Are you or are you not, a disciple whom Jesus loves? If so,Mary IS your mother in Christ. And you are to honor your mother! As Jesus does!

I disagree with that interpretation...bit of a stretch.....and yes Jesus loves me and I do honour His mother.

And there is this, for all disciples obedient to Jesus and the Spirit Whom He promised to send:

Jn 14:15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
Jn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever,
Jn 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.​

.....

Jn 14:25 "These things I have spoken to you, while I am still with you.
Jn 14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.​

Are you listening to Him, or only to what you can understand here and now in the Scriptures?

Oh yes, I listen to Him, in fact He intercedes in prayer for me, as that is one of HIS 'roles' as Scripture clearly states, just as it clearly states that Jesus is interceding for His true and faithful sheep. Which leads me to ask, are YOU listening to Him, or only to what you have been told to understand by the church?

Scripture must be heard and understood in the same Spirit in which it was written. This is the reason the Catholic Faith sounds so "different" from the sola-scriptura protestant churches. Only the Catholic Church has been there from the beginning.

Well, if that were true, then the Catholic church would have the same authority and power that the Apostles were given by Jesus....and the Catholic church would point to HIM, not Mary. As you say, it's not 'rocket science'....and rather obvious.

 

[concretecamper]

And I thank God that the New Testament was finally made available and allowed to be read by everyone, not just "read at the Liturgy"!

you can thank the Catholic Church for that. You're welcome.

 

[Placemat]

Maybe not, but it does cover major dogmas, albeit none of the Marian dogmas. That is peculiar to say the least, but that is my own ignorant opinion, of course.

Yes, pretty major information to not have been mentioned..... and you are entitled to your opinion...and it is not 'ignorant' as you have no doubt based it on what has been revealed in Scripture....and that's a pretty good source!

 

[Placemat]

you can thank the Catholic Chirch for that. You're welcome.

What....lololol....for making it available outside of reading in the liturgy...lololol.....but seriously, I have thanked God that He used such diligent and faithful individuals from the Catholic church in the transcription and safe keeping of His 'Word'. Isn't God wonderful!