Is there really a 1000 year reign ?

karenmarie said:

There is no literal 1,000 yr reign of Christ. There is only his Second Coming. We are right now in the time of Christs reign through the Church.

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if you are right when did it start...

questions on verses matt 24:21, ...not 70 ad since WWII is much larger
isiaih 11:6,
exekiel 47:1-10,
isaiah 2:1-5
when does these verses happen now

exodus19 said:

WHAT can i say but you are SO lost ____the 7 heads on 7 mountains is not a physical thing, why do you always see all as physical?

" ON WHICH THE WOMEN SITTETH,"

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I believe that the woman is an organization like a ship refered to as she..

the seven hills decribes where this organization is ...

but you are getting angry ...why?

lets look at prophecy any where in the bible to see how literal it is...
or let look at matt 13:24-30 how Son of God explained this parable matt 13:36-43...do not forget matt 13:10-13 on why in parables family truth not for the people across the street to hear

exodus19 said:

yes there is a 1000 year period my dear, and it began at this the 3 rd millimeum.

it has been written 1 day is likened to 1000 years, that correlates the 3rd day rise and the 3 rd mill.

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so where is the New Jersalem... that is decribed in scripture...
that floats above the earth and giving light to the world since the sun is Gone..
2 peter 3:10-13, duet 32:22,rev 21-22:5

Hi brother,

What verses are you using to form the opinion that the great trib had to be the largest? the worst? the most deaths? whatever?

All I recall is the great trib will be like no other that has occurred in history or ever will.

Justme

Justme said:

Hi brother,

What verses are you using to form the opinion that the great trib had to be the largest? the worst? the most deaths? whatever?

All I recall is the great trib will be like no other that has occurred in history or ever will.

Justme

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Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, nor ever shall be

Isaiah 30:26 ...has not happened yet


very Hot

A Brother In Christ said:

so where is the New Jersalem... that is decribed in scripture...
that floats above the earth and giving light to the world since the sun is Gone..
2 peter 3:10-13, duet 32:22,rev 21-22:5

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ps 87: 2 'the lord loveth the gates of Zion"
87:7" the Lord shall count when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there"
102 :16 " When the lord shall build up Zion....."

96:1 " o sing unto the Lord a 'new song', sing unto the Lord....."
97"10" ye that love the lord, hate evil, ie sin. He preserveth the souls of His saints, He delivereth them out of the wicked."
116:9 " i will walk before the Lord in the land of the living.."
132:13 " for the lord hath chosen Zion.......
132:17" There will i make the hoirn of David to bud
132:19 " His enemies will i clothe with shame, but upon himself shall his crown flourish"
_____that is a very significant verse, the 'clothing of shame' implies cast into the "lake of fire". and the crown flourish is the angels or the virgins elect.

133:1 " NOTE " Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for the brothers to live together., in unity" ______do you hear that?
149:1 "Praise ye thge Lord.Sing unto Him aa new song, and His prasie in the congregation of saints"

144"9 " i will sing a new song unto thee o God..."

read hear 10,11, ___very cool then 12" That are sons may be as plants grown up in their youth, that our daughters may be as cornerstones, polished after the likeness of the palace"" ____that's just beautifully new Zion.

hear the repetition of the new song that is the new song of Moses.


isaiah 51:11 " therefore the redeemed of the Lord shall return, and come with singing unto Zion, and everlasting joy shall be upon their head...."
16" i have put the words in you mouth and i shall plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of earth, and say unto Zion.Thou art my people.
54:13 ' and all the children shall be taught of the Lord, and great shall be the peace...."
65:16 " Behold I create new heavens and a new earth......

jerem 17:25 " then shall there enter into the gates of this city kings and princes sitting on the throne of David, riding in chariots.........and this city will remain forever.
23:5 ' behold the days come saith the lord that i will raise unto David a righteous branch and aa King shall reign....
6" and in the days judah shall be saved and isreqal shall dwell safelu and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness"



there are so many more it's noit possible to put them all together here.

these point all refer to the book of revelation and new jerusalem

not the rebuiding of old nor the israel today.

the literal expression to floating above is simply b/c of a carnal perspective,

the heavens are new jersusalem and the inhabitants are angels and saints, and those virgins made white and the throne.

Now the gates will remain open and we will always have more coming but it just goes on and on as the 1000 year period.

where is it ? it's still in spirit right now but it will manifest as when you all understand the procedures needed to be taken as acts of God forthcoming and all the events lining up on schedule.

it's not simply magical, like this floating city and you fly up to the sky.

It's as promised and will happen accordingly.

this is not some mythology thing guys, that talk is for the false prophets.

symbolism is definately real but you must hear it properly.

well i must go, it's my sons 18 birthday today and it's dinner time, ya man.

peace out

Hi brother,

Matt 24:21.......okay, that is what I thought.

Thanks
Justme

A Brother In Christ said:

Isaiah 30:26 ...has not happened yet


very Hot

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but that is relevent to these times,

read on
27,28, 29, 30, 31, is all the sword in my mouth .

as you can see it's intense and it's loving and it's giving and forgiving.

look at 33:14" the sinners in Zion are afraid, fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites....
do you understand this point?
and read 16.

the gret trib is on a roll and is as written increasing as the time approaches the throne days. and it will get worse but the chosen will be right there following in line.

it's all on the near horizon,

just see

exodus19 said:

but that is relevent to these times,

read on
27,28, 29, 30, 31, is all the sword in my mouth .

as you can see it's intense and it's loving and it's giving and forgiving.

look at 33:14" the sinners in Zion are afraid, fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites....
do you understand this point?
and read 16.

the gret trib is on a roll and is as written increasing as the time approaches the throne days. and it will get worse but the chosen will be right there following in line.

it's all on the near horizon,

just see

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Yes I understand Isiaih 33:14...Matt 13:41-42 is why they are afraid ..

believer are given a new heart when they believe in the 1000 reign thus they do not sin any more

In Rev. 19:20 The beast was taken, and with him the false prophet were both cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Amil: Happens just before the GWT judgment. The Beast is Gog

Question: Israel is depicted in Ez. 38:8 as a land that has already been brought back and has been already gathered out the nations. Ez. 38:11-12 depicts Israel as dwelling safely without walls with no bars or gates. They are shown as having gotten goods of cattle, gold, and silver.

Scripture declares that Jerusalem will be trodden down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Deut. 30:1-9 Declares and predicts that Israel will be scattered throughout all the nations (fulfilled) and it also declares that ONLY IF they return to the Lord will all their soul that God will gather them again into the land.

THEN and not before, will the Lord do them good and multiply them and put their curses upon those that hated them and make them plentious in goods and cattle.
Israel has come and gone out of Jerusalem in varying numbers for hundreds of years but they are not being gathered even up to this day in any fullfilment of this prophecy because as of yet they are still in a state of rebellion against Jesus Christ.

Jesus told them "Your house is left unto desolate and I will see you no more until you cry out blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

This seige upon Israel by Gog in Ez. 38-39 assumes that position has already been achieved as described here:

And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

And Ez. 38:14:

In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?

One might say that is a minor distinction not worthy of attention but it places this war outside the perimeters of Armeggedon and places it in exactly the same status that John in Rev. puts it: At the end of the 1000 years.

Any similarities from then on out as to the birds eating their flesh is immaterial to the argument unless one can first establish that Israel is in a saved condition before the seige begins, which is impossible in the Armegeddon status.

They are not saved until the very end of Armegeddon when Jesus Christ appears out of heaven with the saints. Thus the Gog and Magog prophecy does not pertain to Armeggedon but to a state distinctly 1000 years later.

The confusion may arise because the Gog Magog dialog ceases at Ez. 39:16. The next verse and on pertains to the Battle of Armegeddon and describes an entirely different status as to Israel's condition.

Here the dialog places Israel in a state of being converted which brings us to Armegeddon:

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.(they are converted here)
23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.(they are not dwelling safely with God's blessing upon them)

25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, (gathering begins) and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.(past tense condition)

27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, (the status specifically enumerated in Ez. 38-39 concerning Gog and Magog) and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, (they accept Jesus Christ as their King)which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, (they cry out Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord) and have left none of them any more there.

29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, (fulfilling Zech. 12:10 when God pours out his spirit upn Israel at the time of the mourning and repentance for what they have done in rejecting their Messiah) saith the Lord GOD.

Ezek 39:23-29 (KJV)

These distinctions and many others require one to leave the scripture alone and the 1000 years condition in place as scripture dictates. Gog and Magog is an entirely different war than Armegeddon both in time and situation.

There is a scriptural way to reconcile the resurrection of the dead in Dan. 12:2 with the resurrection in Rev. 20:4-6 without destroying other scriptures to do it. All scripture is given by inspiration of God. The same God that said Armegeddon said Gog and Magog. The same God who said both righteous and wicked would raise at the end of the 3 1/2 year reign of the beast in Dan. 12:2 said the rest of the dead would not rise until the 1000 years were finished.

There is a solution to the 'rest of the dead' in Rev. 20:4-6. if any would care to discuss it.


Blessing upon the Israel Of God

In Rev. 19:20 The beast was taken, and with him the false prophet were both cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Amil: Happens just before the GWT judgment. The Beast is Gog

Question: Israel is depicted in Ez. 38:8 as a land that has already been brought back and has been already gathered out the nations. Ez. 38:11-12 depicts Israel as dwelling safely without walls with no bars or gates. They are shown as having gotten goods of cattle, gold, and silver.

Scripture declares that Jerusalem will be trodden down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Deut. 30:1-9 Declares and predicts that Israel will be scattered throughout all the nations (fulfilled) and it also declares that ONLY IF they return to the Lord will all their soul that God will gather them again into the land.

THEN and not before, will the Lord do them good and multiply them and put their curses upon those that hated them and make them plentious in goods and cattle.
Israel has come and gone out of Jerusalem in varying numbers for hundreds of years but they are not being gathered even up to this day in any fullfilment of this prophecy because as of yet they are still in a state of rebellion against Jesus Christ.

Jesus told them "Your house is left unto desolate and I will see you no more until you cry out blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

This seige upon Israel by Gog in Ez. 38-39 assumes that position has already been achieved as described here:

And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

And Ez. 38:14:

In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?

One might say that is a minor distinction not worthy of attention but it places this war outside the perimeters of Armeggedon and places it in exactly the same status that John in Rev. puts it: At the end of the 1000 years.

Any similarities from then on out as to the birds eating their flesh is immaterial to the argument unless one can first establish that Israel is in a saved condition before the seige begins, which is impossible in the Armegeddon status.

They are not saved until the very end of Armegeddon when Jesus Christ appears out of heaven with the saints. Thus the Gog and Magog prophecy does not pertain to Armeggedon but to a state distinctly 1000 years later.

The confusion may arise because the Gog Magog dialog ceases at Ez. 39:16. The next verse and on pertains to the Battle of Armegeddon and describes an entirely different status as to Israel's condition.

Here the dialog places Israel in a state of being converted which brings us to Armegeddon:

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.(they are converted here)
23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.(they are not dwelling safely with God's blessing upon them)

25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, (gathering begins) and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.(past tense condition)

27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, (the status specifically enumerated in Ez. 38-39 concerning Gog and Magog) and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, (they accept Jesus Christ as their King)which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, (they cry out Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord) and have left none of them any more there.

29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, (fulfilling Zech. 12:10 when God pours out his spirit upn Israel at the time of the mourning and repentance for what they have done in rejecting their Messiah) saith the Lord GOD.

Ezek 39:23-29 (KJV)

These distinctions and many others require one to leave the scripture alone and the 1000 years condition in place as scripture dictates. Gog and Magog is an entirely different war than Armegeddon both in time and situation.

There is a scriptural way to reconcile the resurrection of the dead in Dan. 12:2 with the resurrection in Rev. 20:4-6 without destroying other scriptures to do it. All scripture is given by inspiration of God. The same God that said Armegeddon said Gog and Magog. The same God who said both righteous and wicked would raise at the end of the 3 1/2 year reign of the beast in Dan. 12:2 said the rest of the dead would not rise until the 1000 years were finished.

There is a solution to the 'rest of the dead' in Rev. 20:4-6. if any would care to discuss it.


Blessing upon the Israel Of God

[font=&quot]Hi epoheno

You are correct Armageddon and gog and Magog are two different battles that happen over 1,000 years apart.

I will start a thread on this
[/font]

Mark-

Please don't sign off with 'we disagree about this one' We don't want to follow the pattern of almost all denominations that have it figured out no matter what scripture says.

It is not a crime to be mistaken about something. I have re-evaluated my position a number of times maybe just because one tiny scripture that I couldn't seem to reconcile in my head. When I acknowledged that one tiny scripture I just 'listened my way in' to a greater understanding.

Please take it very slow with me and don't just put a bunch of stuff out there that seems to be in some kind of code or something that I am not aware of what you mean.

For example, when you say this:

First Jerusalem (Babylon) will be ravished by the nations surrounding her. Then the armies of God are seen battling in Jerusalem and will kill a great number (Joel 2). After which God will gather the remaining into a valley whereby Christ will wipe them out.

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I am really at a loss to understand what time you are in or what battle you are referring to.

1) What scripture is telling you that Jerusalem is Babylon?

2) Do you believe the 'armies of God' are the saints that come back with Christ at his second coming?

And the armies which were in heaven (resurrected saints?) followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. Rev 19:14 (KJV)

...and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints (resurrected saints?) with thee. Zech. 14:5

3) Where are you getting that after God kills a great number of them that he will gather the remaining into a valley whereby Christ will wipe them out?

4) What valley are you talking about and where does scripture say that?


Please adress the specific scripture we are talking about and not just the belief you hold to. The distinctions I brought out in Ezekial you did not address you just said:

This is no different than the account in Rev. 20.

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If there are differences then it is not the same as if there were no differences.

The AC will decieve the world and gather them to battle. Note if there is a battle there is two armies.....

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What do you mean when you say: Note if there is a battle there is two armies....
What two armies are you talking about and where is the scripture that says two armies?

You said: Where does it say that the battle is at Armageddon? It just states that they are gathered at this place.

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I don't follow your logic here either. Where does what say that the battle is at Armegeddon? I am not the one saying that Armegddon is Gog and Magog, you are. I don't see why you are asking me since it seems to be your belief that they are the same war.

There is a previous battle which involves the armies of God at Jerusalem

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I thought you were saying both Armegeddon and Gog and Magog were the same battle. What previous battle which involves the armies of God at Jerusalem are you talking about? I call that one Armeggedon, what do you call it?

Bless you--- Looking forward to your thoughts...

epoheno said:

Mark-


I am really at a loss to understand what time you are in or what battle you are referring to.

1) What scripture is telling you that Jerusalem is Babylon?

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this to wrong statement ...
Revelations 17:9 states that Babylon had seven heads and seven hills
1 peter 5:13 states that to the church of babylon yet peter is in Rome
Babylon is the governments center at that time...

2) Do you believe the 'armies of God' are the saints that come back with Christ at his second coming?

And the armies which were in heaven (resurrected saints?) followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. Rev 19:14 (KJV)

...and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints (resurrected saints?) with thee. Zech. 14:5

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Yes the glorified saints get to help judge the world 1 cor 6:2 with Christ after the tribulation but there is also new believers in the 1000 yr reign

3) Where are you getting that after God kills a great number of them that he will gather the remaining into a valley whereby Christ will wipe them out?

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The End of the great tribulation there are Battles and at the end of the 1000 yr reign there is a one rebellion that is put down after satan is unleashed

4) What valley are you talking about and where does scripture say that?

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??

I must agree with those who maintain that Jesus WILL reign not only for the last 1.000 yrs of this Present Age, but also will forever reign in the New Heaven and Earth...

why do you think that babylon has seven heads, which heads can they be.

notice the address to the 7 churches in rev 2 & 3

why 7?

7 represents all or completeness or the lords day, or in the Lords hands.

it should be understood that the numbers have signifcance and not always limitations or taken literally that would be foolish.

7 is all over the Bible from beginning to end.
it would be like saying their were are only 144,000
or the number 666 is going to be a tatoo or something.______not

modern day jehovahs purported that theory, just stupidity taken the Word literally again.

try and see with me

well have at it guys , i'm off for the next 8 hours

peace and may the words of the Holy Spirit be with you