Is there Objective Morality?

[IWalkAlone]

You lost me, explain.

I already did. I know, hypothetically speaking, that you need your money to survive, so out of love, Gods moral law of love, i don't steal your money. This law of love is not a feeling but a moral law. How is this in any way subjective?

 

[IWalkAlone]

No, thats a fact.

Try to make a rational case for an ”objective morality”.

Just because your opinion says so doesn't make it so.

 

[VirOptimus]

I already did. I know, hypothetically speaking, that you need your money to survive, so out of love, Gods moral law of love, i don't steal your money. This law of love is not a feeling but a moral law. How is this in any way subjective?

First, prove the existance of god(s).

Then, this is your assertion about god(s) and morals, i.e. not ”objective” as you are a subject.

Thirdly, is it only your belief in god(s) that keeps you from stealing?

 

[VirOptimus]

Just because your opinion says so doesn't make it so.

And the rational case is….?

 

[IWalkAlone]

First, prove the existance of god(s).

Then, this is your assertion about god(s) and morals, i.e. not ”objective” as you are a subject.

Thirdly, is it only your belief in god(s) that keeps you from stealing?

God's existence is irrelevant to this discussion. It doesn't matter where the moral law came from only that it exists.

 

[VirOptimus]

God's existence is irrelevant to this discussion. It doesn't matter where the moral law came from only that it exists.

Then support its existance with facts.

 

[IWalkAlone]

And the rational case is….?

If i choose not to steal your money because you need it to live, how is this subjective? Its a fact, not an opinion or feeling that you need your money.

 

[IWalkAlone]

Then support its existance with facts.

Its been written like any other law or moral law. Therefore it exists.

 

[stevevw]

”We” certainly dont need ”an objective way to determine what is right and wrong behaviour”.

I don't know what you mean by ”an objective way to determine what is right and wrong". I'm not saying that. I'm saying we use logic and rationality to determine a moral truth. Morality is a rational enterprise and we can at least try to find a better way to behave that is better than other ways to behave.

 

[VirOptimus]

If i choose not to steal your money because you need it to live, how is this subjective? Its a fact, not an opinion or feeling that you need your money.

….

No, that does not support a ”objective morality”. Do you understand the basic terms in moral philosophy?

 

[VirOptimus]

Its been written like any other law or moral law. Therefore it exists.

No, thats not how it works. Writing something does not mske it ”exist”.

 

[IWalkAlone]

….

No, that does not support a ”objective morality”. Do you understand the basic terms in moral philosophy?

Explain please.

 

[VirOptimus]

I don't know what you mean by ”an objective way to determine what is right and wrong". I'm not saying that. I'm say we use logic and rationality to determine a moral truth. Morality is a rational enterprise and we can at least try to find a better way to behave that is better than other ways to behave.

I quoted your assertion.

And better? For whom? By which authority?

 

[IWalkAlone]

No, thats not how it works. Writing something does not mske it ”exist”.

Its moral philosophy like any other that has been written. Sure i can say that space aliens exist but that doesn't make it true. But the fact that i wrote it and my words exist are known to be true.

 

[VirOptimus]

Its moral philosophy like any other that has been written. Sure i can say that space aliens exist but that doesn't make it true. But the fact that i wrote it and my words exist are known to be true.

Que?

 

[IWalkAlone]

You haven't answers my question. I know you need your money to live, so i don't steal your money. How is this subjective?

 

[VirOptimus]

You haven't answers my question. I know you need your money to live, so i don't steal your money. How is this subjective?

Because you are not an objective agent.

 

[stevevw]

I quoted your assertion.

And better? For whom? By which authority?

We can determine a better/best way to behave morally by using rationality and logic. We can reason why some behaviours are better than others. Our intuitions tell us that certain actions are wrong or that there are moral truths (like laws) that stand independent of humans.

So for example take "Truth" as a moral value. In finding the truth of a matter the moral "Truth" becomes necessary and independent of peoples subjective views, preferences feelings because we cannot engage as humans in that situation if we disregard the "TRuth". So its self-evident. Its objectiveness is by its own authority, because its status as an independent necessary value is made by humans whether they know it or not.

 

[IWalkAlone]

Because you are not an objective agent.

You are not an objective agent but i judge your words not you. Just because you think im not an objective agent doesn't mean my argument is wrong. Prove my argument wrong without attacking the messenger.

 

[VirOptimus]

You are not an objective agent but i judge your words not you. Just because you think im not an objective agent doesn't mean my argument is wrong. Prove my argument wrong without attacking the messenger.

I have not attacked you.

Learn what the terms mean.