Is There More to Atheism than Lack of Belief?

[Ana the Ist]

The short answer....no.

The longer answer is a bit more complicated than that. There's a tendency I've seen from christians on CF that is quite ridiculous. Every atheist who has been posting for more than a week knows exactly what I'm talking about. It's the tendency that some christians have to explain what they think the "atheist worldview" or "atheist belief system" or more incredibly the "atheist religion" entails. It's really quite astounding...so I'm going to help out all those christians who think they understand what those things are.

They're myths. They're crutches. They are works of fiction that christians (and other religions, of course) have created in order to wrap their minds around something they don't understand...namely atheism. I'm going to let all of you know a little secret right now, coming straight from the mouth of an "insider" who's been an atheist since before he was thirteen...there is no "atheist worldview". None. It doesn't exist. In fact, and you may want to sit down for this part, the label "atheist" itself is almost entirely meaningless. "Atheist" describes exactly one thing about me...and it's something that I don't believe. Think on that for a moment. It tells you nothing about what I do believe, it just tells you that I don't believe in god...that's all. Could you imagine if we had labels for everything you don't believe in? A-unicornist, a-vampirest, a-boogeymanist and so-on and so-on. We would end up with countless labels that we could stick to anyone and it wouldn't really tell you anything about them.

Don't believe me? I could drop the label atheist right now and it wouldn't affect the way I perceive myself at all. I could never use the term "atheist" again and it wouldn't change a thing about me. If someone were to ask, "Do you believe in god?" or some similar question I could simply answer "no" and I haven't lost anything even though I don't identify as an atheist anymore. That's not really something you can do as a christian or muslim or jew because so many other beliefs and views and traditions are attached to the labels you have for your religion. Nothing is attached to atheism though...nothing.

I know about now some of you are saying, "What about humanism/naturalism/rationalism/communism/secularism/empiricism/etc/etc....?" What about them? I honestly couldn't define any of those terms if you put a gun to my head. I have a few vague notions of a few of them...but I don't ascribe to any of those beliefs entirely...nor do I really care. None of them have anything to do with atheism. None of them have anything to do with my lack of belief in god.

I hope this clears up some things for those of you whom I keep seeing make the mistake of attaching other beliefs to atheism. You're wrong and you should stop. If in the future I see you doing this, I will be linking you to this thread and I would encourage any atheists to do the same.

For the sake of discussion, I'll always consider the possibility that I'm wrong. If you feel this OP is mistaken somehow, and that the answer to the title is "yes"....please explain. I would love to see it. Thanks for reading.

 

[madaz]

Ana I'm glad you started this thread, I have also noticed this apparent phenomenon.

Because theists have a "worldview" due to their beliefs, there is a tendency for them to project a similar system on atheists.

I dont think there is a word to describe every atheist except for the word "atheist". But, as you said, there should be no such word as atheist, but unfortunately the word exists, it exists because there are still so many people in the modern world who believe in deities, so we owe the existence of this word to theists.

Since the word "atheist" exists, it gets flippintly expanded to words like "atheism". Now that word almost sounds like atheists are a group of like minded people who share the same philosophy. Like a religion almost.

I can understand to a small degree why theists believe atheists have common interests.

Most my atheist friends find science awesome, but that does not mean science is atheistic.

Most my atheist friends accept the ToE, but that does not mean the ToE is atheistic.

Most my atheist friends reject everything super natural, but that does not mean rejection of everything super natural is atheistic.

Some of my atheist friends do not even describe themselves as atheist.

There are obviously many things that the majority of atheists may agree on, but that doesn't mean any of those things are inherently atheistic.

There is only one common thing among all atheists.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Deleted.

 

[juvenissun]

The short answer....no.

The longer answer is a bit more complicated than that. There's a tendency I've seen from christians on CF that is quite ridiculous. Every atheist who has been posting for more than a week knows exactly what I'm talking about. It's the tendency that some christians have to explain what they think the "atheist worldview" or "atheist belief system" or more incredibly the "atheist religion" entails. It's really quite astounding...so I'm going to help out all those christians who think they understand what those things are.

An atheist does not recognize God or gods. That is the definition.

What is the consequence based on this definition? A LOT.

So, are you confused on the definition or on the consequences? If it is on the consequences, then the argument could be endless, and there is no need to feel confusing. Because it is confusing. Without God, everything is confusing.

Tell me ONE thing you think it is certain (except logic and math), I certainly can make it confuse to you. Easily.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

The short answer....no.

The longer answer is a bit more complicated than that. There's a tendency I've seen from christians on CF that is quite ridiculous. Every atheist who has been posting for more than a week knows exactly what I'm talking about. It's the tendency that some christians have to explain what they think the "atheist worldview" or "atheist belief system" or more incredibly the "atheist religion" entails. It's really quite astounding...so I'm going to help out all those christians who think they understand what those things are.

They're myths. They're crutches. They are works of fiction that christians (and other religions, of course) have created in order to wrap their minds around something they don't understand...namely atheism. I'm going to let all of you know a little secret right now, coming straight from the mouth of an "insider" who's been an atheist since before he was thirteen...there is no "atheist worldview". None. It doesn't exist. In fact, and you may want to sit down for this part, the label "atheist" itself is almost entirely meaningless. "Atheist" describes exactly one thing about me...and it's something that I don't believe. Think on that for a moment. It tells you nothing about what I do believe, it just tells you that I don't believe in god...that's all. Could you imagine if we had labels for everything you don't believe in? A-unicornist, a-vampirest, a-boogeymanist and so-on and so-on. We would end up with countless labels that we could stick to anyone and it wouldn't really tell you anything about them.

Don't believe me? I could drop the label atheist right now and it wouldn't affect the way I perceive myself at all. I could never use the term "atheist" again and it wouldn't change a thing about me. If someone were to ask, "Do you believe in god?" or some similar question I could simply answer "no" and I haven't lost anything even though I don't identify as an atheist anymore. That's not really something you can do as a christian or muslim or jew because so many other beliefs and views and traditions are attached to the labels you have for your religion. Nothing is attached to atheism though...nothing.

I know about now some of you are saying, "What about humanism/naturalism/rationalism/communism/secularism/empiricism/etc/etc....?" What about them? I honestly couldn't define any of those terms if you put a gun to my head. I have a few vague notions of a few of them...but I don't ascribe to any of those beliefs entirely...nor do I really care. None of them have anything to do with atheism. None of them have anything to do with my lack of belief in god.

I hope this clears up some things for those of you whom I keep seeing make the mistake of attaching other beliefs to atheism. You're wrong and you should stop. If in the future I see you doing this, I will be linking you to this thread and I would encourage any atheists to do the same.

For the sake of discussion, I'll always consider the possibility that I'm wrong. If you feel this OP is mistaken somehow, and that the answer to the title is "yes"....please explain. I would love to see it. Thanks for reading.

By the strictest and most literal definition, the answer to your thread question is "no". Atheism, by definition, is simply a lack of belief in god(s).

But you must realize that there are similarities and trends among the group that identify as 'atheists'.

For example, if someone tells me they are an atheist, I could probably make the reasonable assumption that they:
-reject supernatural claims and believe in only natural phenomena as explanations
-believe in secular government
-do not highly value any religious texts
-are politically liberal or left-leaning
-are pro-choice
-value higher education
-value the scientific method
-believe that we make our own purpose
-believe morality is not objective but is either the product of evolution or is ultimately relativistic
-believe in evolution as a meta-narrative to how we came to be human
-do not believe in a soul
-etc.


Now of course there will always be outliers that don't fit into these nice categories. But that is the case with any label of a large group of people. No group is homogeneous.

I think if you identify as an atheist, then you are generally identifying with a particular worldview and thus have a set of philosophical beliefs that are not atheistic per se, but tend to be associated with a self-identifying atheist.

Notes:
-Worldview, to me, is a set of beliefs or philosophies which seek to answer questions about purpose, morality and our place in the universe
-I made a point to note the difference between a self-identifying atheist and an atheist-by-ignorance. For example, to me, babies are atheists but they aren't self-identifying atheists and thus don't factor into this discussion of worldviews.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

Ana I'm glad you started this thread, I have also noticed this apparent phenomenon.

Because theists have a "worldview" due to their beliefs, there is a tendency for them to project a similar system on atheists.

I dont think there is a word to describe every atheist except for the word "atheist". But, as you said, there should be no such word as atheist, but unfortunately the word exists, it exists because there are still so many people in the modern world who believe in deities, so we owe the existence of this word to theists.

Since the word "atheist" exists, it gets flippintly expanded to words like "atheism". Now that word almost sounds like atheists are a group of like minded people who share the same philosophy. Like a religion almost.

I can understand to a small degree why theists believe atheists have common interests.

Most my atheist friends find science awesome, but that does not mean science is atheistic.

Most my atheist friends accept the ToE, but that does not mean the ToE is atheistic.

Most my atheist friends reject everything super natural, but that does not mean rejection of everything super natural is atheistic.

Some of my atheist friends do not even describe themselves as atheist.

There are obviously many things that the majority of atheists may agree on, but that doesn't mean any of those things are inherently atheistic.

There is only one common thing among all atheists.

Yes, but this is a little bit semantic don't you think?

I mean, there's really only one thing that is common to all theists too: they believe in god(s).

And there's really only one thing that is common to all Christians: they believe Jesus died and rose from the dead. (You may argue that there is more than this but believe me, you can find Christians that deviate wildly on their conception of pretty much everything else that is regarded as Christian 'doctrine').

Giving a group of like-minded people a label does not mean that they are a homogeneous group that suddenly must believe everything identically under a creed. Atheists aren't homogeneous, but there is a set of beliefs (or a worldview) that tends to be associated with those that identify as atheists.

The association need not be doctrine-bound but may simply be a result of the atheistic lack of belief. Or it may be a correlation-without-causation that is simply a coincidence due to other factors.

But the trends are there. Atheists tend to be liberal. They tend to lack belief in the supernatural. They tend to be naturalists. They tend to value science highly. They tend to believe purpose is self-given. They tend to believe morality is relativistic. Etc.


There is more to the word "atheism" and "atheist" than simply the strict definition. There are more trends that are associated with atheism that go beyond just one, strict, literal definition.

 

[FireDragon76]

Atheism is a worldview, at least in the West... how many atheists reject belief in God but nonetheless believe in ghosts, extrasensory perception, or an afterlife? Almost none. There are certain assumptions about reality that all tend to be lumped together when one identifies as an atheist.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Atheism is a worldview, at least in the West... how many atheists reject belief in God but nonetheless believe in ghosts, extrasensory perception, or an afterlife? Almost none. There are certain assumptions about reality that all tend to be lumped together when one identifies as an atheist.

If I don't believe in ghosts, it's not because of atheism. It's because of skepticism. Two different things entirely.

I know several atheists that believe in ESP, so I don't see how your argument holds up.

 

[Chany]

Even though there is a tendency for atheists to follow certain routes, like a rejection of the supernatural, they are usually a result of some higher ideology. That is, atheism is always a component of a belief system, never a belief system itself.

To say atheism is a belief system is to say theism is a belief system; it only plays a part in the overall belief system of a person.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Often Atheists have a dismissive attitude, often flavored with sarcasm, derision and an air of superiority when interacting with believers. This is not an endearing quality. Admittedly some Christians display the same attitude towards Atheists, but not at all to the same degree.

Sure, I rarely notice an "air of superiority" emanating from christians.

Don't take that statement too seriously though, it could be flavored with sarcasm.

 

[Ana the Ist]

An atheist does not recognize God or gods. That is the definition.

What is the consequence based on this definition? A LOT.

So, are you confused on the definition or on the consequences? If it is on the consequences, then the argument could be endless, and there is no need to feel confusing. Because it is confusing. Without God, everything is confusing.

Tell me ONE thing you think it is certain (except logic and math), I certainly can make it confuse to you. Easily.

The OP was merely a statement of fact directed at those who believe atheism is in some way tied to a belief system. At the end, I extended an open invite to anyone who still believes it is tied to a belief system to share what they think that belief system is. If that's what you meant by "consequences" please share.

One thing I am certain of? I love my wife.

 

[Ana the Ist]

By the strictest and most literal definition, the answer to your thread question is "no". Atheism, by definition, is simply a lack of belief in god(s).

But you must realize that there are similarities and trends among the group that identify as 'atheists'.

For example, if someone tells me they are an atheist, I could probably make the reasonable assumption that they:
-reject supernatural claims and believe in only natural phenomena as explanations
-believe in secular government
-do not highly value any religious texts
-are politically liberal or left-leaning
-are pro-choice
-value higher education
-value the scientific method
-believe that we make our own purpose
-believe morality is not objective but is either the product of evolution or is ultimately relativistic
-believe in evolution as a meta-narrative to how we came to be human
-do not believe in a soul
-etc.


Now of course there will always be outliers that don't fit into these nice categories. But that is the case with any label of a large group of people. No group is homogeneous.

I think if you identify as an atheist, then you are generally identifying with a particular worldview and thus have a set of philosophical beliefs that are not atheistic per se, but tend to be associated with a self-identifying atheist.

Notes:
-Worldview, to me, is a set of beliefs or philosophies which seek to answer questions about purpose, morality and our place in the universe
-I made a point to note the difference between a self-identifying atheist and an atheist-by-ignorance. For example, to me, babies are atheists but they aren't self-identifying atheists and thus don't factor into this discussion of worldviews.

Could anyone disagree with all those "reasonable assumptions" you would make about atheists and still be an atheist?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Atheism is a worldview, at least in the West... how many atheists reject belief in God but nonetheless believe in ghosts, extrasensory perception, or an afterlife? Almost none. There are certain assumptions about reality that all tend to be lumped together when one identifies as an atheist.

I honestly don't know how many atheists believe in ghosts. I've met a couple who believed ghosts were a natural phenomena, but had difficulty explaining what that meant to me.

The important thing is...can they still be atheist and believe in ghosts?

 

[poolerboy0077]

Often Atheists have a dismissive attitude, often flavored with sarcasm, derision and an air of superiority when interacting with believers. This is not an endearing quality. Admittedly some Christians display the same attitude towards Atheists, but not at all to the same degree.

Though to be fair, this forum is filled with threads and posts so outrageously ridiculous (and not simply because they're religious mind you) that it makes it very difficult to resist the temptation to mock.

 

[Huntun]

Labeling a lack of belief an "ism" can be useful for ease of communication but can also lead to confusion. People then start thinking a lack of belief in something is an ideology.

 

[Cute Tink]

Actually the part I have the most problem with is when certain members have stated that because I'm an atheist I'm also a hedonist or that I must believe X way and refuse to listen when I (or others) state something different, especially when that poster "was an atheist" and this is how atheism works. It's very mind boggling.

I don't need to be told what I believe by someone who's view of atheism is so skewed by their own personal biases as to be unrecognizable.

I also don't need to be told that I do actually believe in God or that I hate God. Chances are, if you are saying that to me, then you don't know me at all and have no interest in listening (in my experience).

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Sure, I rarely notice an "air of superiority" emanating from christians.

Don't take that statement too seriously though, it could be flavored with sarcasm.

Something strange. I didn't think I posted this on this thread but the other one. ???????? (I deleted it.)

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

Could anyone disagree with all those "reasonable assumptions" you would make about atheists and still be an atheist?

Is it theoretically possible? Sure. As I said in my post, there are always outliers to a group that don't fit into nice categories. But one outlier doesn't falsify the general trend.

There may be somewhere an atheist who believes in the supernatural, wants more religious involvement in government, values religious texts highly, is a right-wing Republican, is pro-life, and does not value university degrees; who does not value science and believes purpose is endowed authoritatively by something (but not god(s)); who believes morality is objective and given objectively by something (but not god(s)); who does not believe in evolution but believes some other (non-scientific) idea because he doesn't value science.

Sure. That person could theoretically exist.

And there could also be a teapot orbiting the sun between Mars and Earth.

 

[Received]

The short answer....no.

The longer answer is a bit more complicated than that. There's a tendency I've seen from christians on CF that is quite ridiculous. Every atheist who has been posting for more than a week knows exactly what I'm talking about. It's the tendency that some christians have to explain what they think the "atheist worldview" or "atheist belief system" or more incredibly the "atheist religion" entails. It's really quite astounding...so I'm going to help out all those christians who think they understand what those things are.

They're myths. They're crutches. They are works of fiction that christians (and other religions, of course) have created in order to wrap their minds around something they don't understand...namely atheism. I'm going to let all of you know a little secret right now, coming straight from the mouth of an "insider" who's been an atheist since before he was thirteen...there is no "atheist worldview". None. It doesn't exist. In fact, and you may want to sit down for this part, the label "atheist" itself is almost entirely meaningless. "Atheist" describes exactly one thing about me...and it's something that I don't believe. Think on that for a moment. It tells you nothing about what I do believe, it just tells you that I don't believe in god...that's all. Could you imagine if we had labels for everything you don't believe in? A-unicornist, a-vampirest, a-boogeymanist and so-on and so-on. We would end up with countless labels that we could stick to anyone and it wouldn't really tell you anything about them.

Don't believe me? I could drop the label atheist right now and it wouldn't affect the way I perceive myself at all. I could never use the term "atheist" again and it wouldn't change a thing about me. If someone were to ask, "Do you believe in god?" or some similar question I could simply answer "no" and I haven't lost anything even though I don't identify as an atheist anymore. That's not really something you can do as a christian or muslim or jew because so many other beliefs and views and traditions are attached to the labels you have for your religion. Nothing is attached to atheism though...nothing.

I know about now some of you are saying, "What about humanism/naturalism/rationalism/communism/secularism/empiricism/etc/etc....?" What about them? I honestly couldn't define any of those terms if you put a gun to my head. I have a few vague notions of a few of them...but I don't ascribe to any of those beliefs entirely...nor do I really care. None of them have anything to do with atheism. None of them have anything to do with my lack of belief in god.

I hope this clears up some things for those of you whom I keep seeing make the mistake of attaching other beliefs to atheism. You're wrong and you should stop. If in the future I see you doing this, I will be linking you to this thread and I would encourage any atheists to do the same.

For the sake of discussion, I'll always consider the possibility that I'm wrong. If you feel this OP is mistaken somehow, and that the answer to the title is "yes"....please explain. I would love to see it. Thanks for reading.

For you and other reasonable and consistent atheists, the answer is no. But the moment you start advocating for your atheism, it then by definition becomes something positive. I distinguish between negative and positive atheism: the former where you don't believe in any deities, period; the latter where you don't believe in any deities and package this ideologically with other stuff, e.g., atheism as "rational", "scientific," "realistic," etc.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Though to be fair, this forum is filled with threads and posts so outrageously ridiculous (and not simply because they're religious mind you) that it makes it very difficult to resist the temptation to mock.

I deleted that post. I didn't post it on this thread but on the other one (I thought). I don't know how it got here.