Is there anything wrong with an intellectual faith?

[Major1]

I think we are passed our discussion.

I mentioned the twelve. You said what about Matthew and Luke. I said they were not part of the twelve.

Now you are onto the gospels and my point is still the initial 12 and the people Jesus chose.

So I am not confused. We just seem to have moved away from the original intention of the point I was making.

I don’t believe the Bible has errors so you are beating the wrong drum here.

Anyways, ready to move on. Just stating your point is invalid in the original context because neither Matthew or Luke were the twelve Christ chose.

I apologize for the misunderstanding.

 

[paul becke]

I have a particular interest in the philosophical and intellectual aspects of the Christian religion, but at the same time, I feel like it's a dead faith to me. Allow me to elaborate. I used to obsess with learning everything I could about Christianity and made sure I had it all right, but multiple times I felt like the Pharisees in the Bible who certainly focused on getting everything right but still missed the point. Also, I feel like there can be a sense of pride or arrogance among the more intellectually inclined, which is what drew me to focus more on introversion and being Spirit-filled. I also started embracing more theologically diverse denominations as I am uncertain about what I believe aside from the basic tenets of the Christian faith that we all share.

Are intellectualism and attempting to understand everything necessarily bad things?

Although, as I mentioned earlier, A Huxley became a Vedantist, if you have not already read The Perennial Philosophy, I would heartily recommend you do so, as it is so intellectually stimulating on a subject that, as you discovered, does not make it easy, with its ever-proliferating mysteries/paradoxes, the deeper we approach the ultimate truth of God. But, unsurprisingly perhaps, it is also very beautiful, studded throughout with quotes from Christian writers Catholic and Protestant and the mainstream religions across the globe.

 

[thecolorsblend]

I have a particular interest in the philosophical and intellectual aspects of the Christian religion, but at the same time, I feel like it's a dead faith to me. Allow me to elaborate. I used to obsess with learning everything I could about Christianity and made sure I had it all right, but multiple times I felt like the Pharisees in the Bible who certainly focused on getting everything right but still missed the point. Also, I feel like there can be a sense of pride or arrogance among the more intellectually inclined, which is what drew me to focus more on introversion and being Spirit-filled. I also started embracing more theologically diverse denominations as I am uncertain about what I believe aside from the basic tenets of the Christian faith that we all share.

Are intellectualism and attempting to understand everything necessarily bad things?

I can't participate in something that I don't respect. Getting my respect means being intelligent. I can't change who I am. That's how I operate. I can do no other.

One thing I love about the Catholic Church is that she's ready, willing, able and eager to give the faithful whatever they need.

For me, I need meat. I like languages, history and theology. The Church offers me an intellectual banquet. She's written more stuff than I'll ever live to read.

Other people need mercy. They need to know they're forgiven. The Church is rich in mercy.

Other people, God bless 'em, aren't exactly deep thinkers. They can't handle much more than the meat and potatoes. The Church can give them the Mass and teach them how to live their lives in ways which honor God.

All those people and more can find a home in the Catholic Church. They're all nourished by the same sacrament, participate in the same Mass, receive the same Eucharist, etc.

There's nothing wrong with being smart. But, as I suspect you already know, those to whom much is given, much is required. Your intelligence should be used for the kingdom. That's probably not breaking news for you though. My point is that your faith doesn't have to be like someone else's in order to be valid. Whatever motivates you in your faith in and relationship with the Lord, keep at it. Don't let someone tell you you're doing it wrong just because you're not doing it their way. God gave your intellect so it isn't wrong to use it.

 

[Johnsloan]

I can't participate in something that I don't respect. Getting my respect means being intelligent. I can't change who I am. That's how I operate. I can do no other.

One thing I love about the Catholic Church is that she's ready, willing, able and eager to give the faithful whatever they need.

For me, I need meat. I like languages, history and theology. The Church offers me an intellectual banquet. She's written more stuff than I'll ever live to read.

Other people need mercy. They need to know they're forgiven. The Church is rich in mercy.

Other people, God bless 'em, aren't exactly deep thinkers. They can't handle much more than the meat and potatoes. The Church can give them the Mass and teach them how to live their lives in ways which honor God.

All those people and more can find a home in the Catholic Church. They're all nourished by the same sacrament, participate in the same Mass, receive the same Eucharist, etc.

There's nothing wrong with being smart. But, as I suspect you already know, those to whom much is given, much is required. Your intelligence should be used for the kingdom. That's probably not breaking news for you though. My point is that your faith doesn't have to be like someone else's in order to be valid. Whatever motivates you in your faith in and relationship with the Lord, keep at it. Don't let someone tell you you're doing it wrong just because you're not doing it their way. God gave your intellect so it isn't wrong to use it.

Depends on what you think is smart. The real smart see signs following.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Depends on what you think is smart.

An above average IQ is a pretty helpful guide.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I can't participate in something that I don't respect. Getting my respect means being intelligent. I can't change who I am. That's how I operate. I can do no other.

One thing I love about the Catholic Church is that she's ready, willing, able and eager to give the faithful whatever they need.

For me, I need meat. I like languages, history and theology. The Church offers me an intellectual banquet. She's written more stuff than I'll ever live to read.

Other people need mercy. They need to know they're forgiven. The Church is rich in mercy.

Other people, God bless 'em, aren't exactly deep thinkers. They can't handle much more than the meat and potatoes. The Church can give them the Mass and teach them how to live their lives in ways which honor God.

All those people and more can find a home in the Catholic Church. They're all nourished by the same sacrament, participate in the same Mass, receive the same Eucharist, etc.

There's nothing wrong with being smart. But, as I suspect you already know, those to whom much is given, much is required. Your intelligence should be used for the kingdom. That's probably not breaking news for you though. My point is that your faith doesn't have to be like someone else's in order to be valid. Whatever motivates you in your faith in and relationship with the Lord, keep at it. Don't let someone tell you you're doing it wrong just because you're not doing it their way. God gave your intellect so it isn't wrong to use it.

Your faith is surprisingly naive. It brought to mind an event in my life where the Catholic Church failed to live up to its promised aid quite pitifully.

I had flown into Chicago and had well over an hour to take the metro train (aka El or subway depending on its location) to Union Station in order to meet my family and catch a train home. There was only one departure daily. I was delayed in my arrival and went to the ticket agent (a big mistake) who informed me that the train had just left, on time. This proved to be quite untrue and I should never have believed him. As it was I was young and naive. In the center of the waiting room there was a Traveler's Aid booth. A man at the booth told me that the regular folks had left for the day and he was just enjoying the seat. I related my problem to him and he insisted that my problem would be solved if only I would go to St. Peter's Catholic Church a few blocks away. I proceeded to do so. I entered a very impressive, lavish church. In the lobby there was a ticket counter of sorts in marble with three openings. A Franciscan monk was at one of them and the other two were empty. His job was to collect donations for masses for departed souls now in Purgatory. I related my problem to him and he, matter-of-factly, informed me that he was from a small town near my home town and that there was no way I could get home that evening.

I then returned to Union Station, told the loyal Catholic chap (who I did not fault for his willingness to help me) that his advice was worthless. I found my way back to the airport, caught a late flight and was home about the time my family arrived by train.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Your faith is surprisingly naive. It brought to mind an event in my life where the Catholic Church failed to live up to its promised aid quite pitifully.

I had flown into Chicago and had well over an hour to take the metro train (aka El or subway depending on its location) to Union Station in order to meet my family and catch a train home. There was only one departure daily. I was delayed in my arrival and went to the ticket agent (a big mistake) who informed me that the train had just left, on time. This proved to be quite untrue and I should never have believed him. As it was I was young and naive. In the center of the waiting room there was a Traveler's Aid booth. A man at the booth told me that the regular folks had left for the day and he was just enjoying the seat. I related my problem to him and he insisted that my problem would be solved if only I would go to St. Peter's Catholic Church a few blocks away. I proceeded to do so. I entered a very impressive, lavish church. In the lobby there was a ticket counter of sorts in marble with three openings. A Franciscan monk was at one of them and the other two were empty. His job was to collect donations for masses for departed souls now in Purgatory. I related my problem to him and he, matter-of-factly, informed me that he was from a small town near my home town and that there was no way I could get home that evening.

I then returned to Union Station, told the loyal Catholic chap (who I did not fault for his willingness to help me) that his advice was worthless. I found my way back to the airport, caught a late flight and was home about the time my family arrived by train.

I'm sure you have a point. But I have no idea what it might be.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I'm sure you have a point. But I have no idea what it might be.

My point is simple. It is that the Catholic Church cannot serve the needs of its own members, much less non-members, in even basic aspects of life, such as providing advice regarding transportation and that the faith of its members, such as the gentleman at Union Station, is sorely misplaced.

If you actually believed in what you posted, then your faith is misplaced, because the Catholic Church assuredly is either incapable (usually) or unwilling to meet these expectations.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Catholic Church cannot serve the needs of its own members, much less non-members, in even basic aspects of life, such as providing advice regarding transportation

Wow.

 

[thecolorsblend]

.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Wow.

I knew you would be shocked and surprised.

 

[bbbbbbb]

.

 

[Johnsloan]

An above average IQ is a pretty helpful guide.

According to you. Not according to God

 

[thecolorsblend]

According to you. Not according to God

Heh, whatever you say, man.

 

[Major1]

I knew you would be shocked and surprised.

LOL...........so did I!!!!!

By the way, I understood your point to begin with.

 

[bbbbbbb]

LOL...........so did I!!!!!

By the way, I understood your point to begin with.

Frankly, I was surprised that not only did he not understand my point, but that he was willing to let us all know.

 

[Johnsloan]

Heh, whatever you say, man.

I never said it God did.

 

[thecolorsblend]

I never said it God did.

Heh heh, whatever you say, man.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I apologize for the misunderstanding.

No problem.

 

[Johnsloan]

Heh heh, whatever you say, man.

And your calling that intelligent. OK

 

[Mark Quayle]

I have a particular interest in the philosophical and intellectual aspects of the Christian religion, but at the same time, I feel like it's a dead faith to me. Allow me to elaborate. I used to obsess with learning everything I could about Christianity and made sure I had it all right, but multiple times I felt like the Pharisees in the Bible who certainly focused on getting everything right but still missed the point. Also, I feel like there can be a sense of pride or arrogance among the more intellectually inclined, which is what drew me to focus more on introversion and being Spirit-filled. I also started embracing more theologically diverse denominations as I am uncertain about what I believe aside from the basic tenets of the Christian faith that we all share.

Are intellectualism and attempting to understand everything necessarily bad things?