Is there anything wrong with an intellectual faith?

[FaithfulPilgrim]

I have a particular interest in the philosophical and intellectual aspects of the Christian religion, but at the same time, I feel like it's a dead faith to me. Allow me to elaborate. I used to obsess with learning everything I could about Christianity and made sure I had it all right, but multiple times I felt like the Pharisees in the Bible who certainly focused on getting everything right but still missed the point. Also, I feel like there can be a sense of pride or arrogance among the more intellectually inclined, which is what drew me to focus more on introversion and being Spirit-filled. I also started embracing more theologically diverse denominations as I am uncertain about what I believe aside from the basic tenets of the Christian faith that we all share.

Are intellectualism and attempting to understand everything necessarily bad things?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I have a particular interest in the philosophical and intellectual aspects of the Christian religion, but at the same time, I feel like it's a dead faith to me. Allow me to elaborate. I used to obsess with learning everything I could about Christianity and made sure I had it all right, but multiple times I felt like the Pharisees in the Bible who certainly focused on getting everything right but still missed the point. Also, I feel like there can be a sense of pride or arrogance among the more intellectually inclined, which is what drew me to focus more on introversion and being Spirit-filled. I also started embracing more theologically diverse denominations as I am uncertain about what I believe aside from the basic tenets of the Christian faith that we all share.

Are intellectualism and attempting to understand everything necessarily bad things?

Trying to understand everything is a desire of the mind in the physical body. This mind is hostile to the things of God, because it cannot understand it. To create a faith based on leaning on our own understanding, even if it is scripture based, is still carnal and of the flesh.

 

[High Fidelity]

I don't think it's wrong, but I do recall a Pastor I respect very much comment on how to some it becomes about proper exegesis and less about exaltation. It can be a fine line.

 

[salt-n-light]

I have a particular interest in the philosophical and intellectual aspects of the Christian religion, but at the same time, I feel like it's a dead faith to me. Allow me to elaborate. I used to obsess with learning everything I could about Christianity and made sure I had it all right, but multiple times I felt like the Pharisees in the Bible who certainly focused on getting everything right but still missed the point. Also, I feel like there can be a sense of pride or arrogance among the more intellectually inclined, which is what drew me to focus more on introversion and being Spirit-filled. I also started embracing more theologically diverse denominations as I am uncertain about what I believe aside from the basic tenets of the Christian faith that we all share.

Are intellectualism and attempting to understand everything necessarily bad things?

No, but what is your hope in understanding everything? What is the end goal?

When I reflect on those people of the NT, that Jesus performed miracles on because of great faith, and even those of the OT, their end goal was more personal and simple, than that of the Pharisees.Pharisees focused so much on the details, and completely missed the big picture. Im guessing you are identifying that in your quest for knowledge.

This is why testimonies are so powerful, they bring life to the Word in a way that others can relate and identify with.Testimonies don't require understanding everything, but with understanding of who God is and the fruitfulness of the relationship with Him, we are changed. Some people go far left and focus on the understanding, some people go far right and become sensationalistic. Testimonies paints the big picture, without needing to go from Genesis to Revelation, or to go through rituals to experience His presence.In testimonies our knowledge and understanding becomes wisdom, and the presence of the Holy Spirit is more than a feeling of being filled, but identifying Him as a present help and our guide.

So what is the big picture? God gets glory. In our desire to know Him more God should get glory. And in our quiet times just talking to Him, God should get glory. And as we are sharing what He revealed to us or how he has affected our live, God should get glory. If you find that God is not getting glory, then I would step back and simplify my approach on understanding the Word.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hi FP, what you are concerned about can be a very real thing if your Christian life is spent learning for learning's sake. You need an outlet, and God is more than likely moving you in that direction (IMHO).

If you use what you know to benefit others and glorify God .. Matthew 5:16, that's a different matter altogether isn't it. So don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, keep studying, but put some legs to your faith and get out there where the Lord can use your knowledge, understanding and wisdom to bless others (along with His use of your time, your back and your willingness to serve in others ways, of course).

This reminds me a little bit of part of the intro to one of Dr. Packer's books called, Knowing God. It talks about two different types of Christians, Travelers and Balconeers, and how differently they approach the Christian life. If you read the excerpt below, be sure to take note that it is not great knowledge and understanding that Dr. Packer sees as one of the big problems in the church today, quite the opposite, in fact.

Yours and His,
David

In A Preface to Christian Theology, John Mackay illustrated two kinds of interest in Christian things by picturing persons sitting on the high front balcony of a Spanish house watching travelers go by on the road below. The “balconeers” can overhear the travelers’ talk and chat with them; they may comment critically on the way that the travelers walk; or they may discuss questions about the road, how it can exist at all or lead anywhere, what might be seen from different points along it, and so forth; but they are onlookers, and their problems are theoretical only. The travelers, by contrast, face problems which, though they have their theoretical angle, are essentially practical—problems of the “which–way–to–go” and “how–to–make–it” type, problems which call not merely for comprehension but for decision and action too.

Balconeers and travelers may think over the same area, yet their problems differ. Thus (for instance) in relation to evil, the balconeer’s problem is to find a theoretical explanation of how evil can consist with God’s sovereignty and goodness, but the traveler’s problem is how to master evil and bring good out of it. Or again, in relation to sin, the balconeer asks whether racial sinfulness and personal perversity are really credible, while the traveler, knowing sin from within, asks what hope there is of deliverance. Or take the problem of the Godhead; while the balconeer is asking how one God can conceivably be three, what sort of unity three could have, and how three who make one can be persons, the traveler wants to know how to show proper honor, love and trust toward the three Persons who are now together at work to bring him out of sin to glory. And so we might go on.

Now this is a book for travelers, and it is with travelers’ questions that it deals.

The conviction behind the book is that ignorance of God—ignorance both of his ways and of the practice of communion with him—lies at the root of much of the church’s weakness today. ~Packer, J.I., Knowing God, InterVarsity Press.

​

 

[Soyeong]

I have a particular interest in the philosophical and intellectual aspects of the Christian religion, but at the same time, I feel like it's a dead faith to me. Allow me to elaborate. I used to obsess with learning everything I could about Christianity and made sure I had it all right, but multiple times I felt like the Pharisees in the Bible who certainly focused on getting everything right but still missed the point. Also, I feel like there can be a sense of pride or arrogance among the more intellectually inclined, which is what drew me to focus more on introversion and being Spirit-filled. I also started embracing more theologically diverse denominations as I am uncertain about what I believe aside from the basic tenets of the Christian faith that we all share.

Are intellectualism and attempting to understand everything necessarily bad things?

1 Corinthians 13:2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

There is no such thing as a faith that is not intellectual and there is nothing wrong seeking to fathom all mysteries and knowledge, but that needs to be tempered by love, or it is nothing. Having correct doctrine is important, so it is something we should definitely be studying, but as you note, we need to be careful not to let it cause us to become arrogant or prideful. There is nothing about being Spirit-filled that is anti-intellectual.

 

[Tolworth John]

feel like it's a dead faith to me.

You have a deep understanding of Christian theologu but cannot answer your own question about Christianity.
If your faith in Jesus is not living and real to you, all you are doing is studing nonsence.
May I suggest that you stop your studing and check out the christianityexplored web site and investigate Christianity as a practical faith that applies to you, to your life and how you live it.

Most people know John 3:16 but do you know the verses 17 + 18 and what they mean.

 

[Petros2015]

Are intellectualism and attempting to understand everything necessarily bad things?

No, as long as they realize they must eventually bow to God and not God to them.

“There have been men before … who got so interested in proving the existence of God that they came to care nothing for God himself… as if the good Lord had nothing to do but to exist. There have been some who were so preoccupied with spreading Christianity that they never gave a thought to Christ.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce

The Great Divorce Quotes by C.S. Lewis

 

[FireDragon76]

An intellectual approach is perfectly reasonable for some people.

 

[Major1]

I have a particular interest in the philosophical and intellectual aspects of the Christian religion, but at the same time, I feel like it's a dead faith to me. Allow me to elaborate. I used to obsess with learning everything I could about Christianity and made sure I had it all right, but multiple times I felt like the Pharisees in the Bible who certainly focused on getting everything right but still missed the point. Also, I feel like there can be a sense of pride or arrogance among the more intellectually inclined, which is what drew me to focus more on introversion and being Spirit-filled. I also started embracing more theologically diverse denominations as I am uncertain about what I believe aside from the basic tenets of the Christian faith that we all share.

Are intellectualism and attempting to understand everything necessarily bad things?

YES!

No one can understand everything to be saved and no one has to understand everything to be saved. Intelligence is NOT a requirement of salvation my friend.
Most things in fact do not need to be understood intellectually.

Deut. 29:29 speaks specifically to your question...............
"The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law".

That means there are some things we just will not ever know.

Now, Do you understand the workings of a single human cell?
Have you studied the complexity of just one human cell"?

But you live, breath, eat, and go to the bathroom everyday not understanding the inner workings of one single human cell.

Do you intellectually understand how a piece of steel that weighs thousands of tons floats on water but you don't and will drown if you can't swim?

But you get onto a boat and go over the water anyway.

Do you intellectually understand how a piece of steel that weighs thousands of tons actually floats in the air?

But you board one any way when you get onto a place and it fly's through the air.

My experience over the years with those who are by their own admission "Intellectual" and thereby above others and question the existence of God and even the need to be saved from the coming judgment, is that it is only a smoke screen.

By that I mean the conversation usually is about how smart I am or what level of education I have and that allows me to question the Bible that is written for the common man...not me. You see I am an "Intellctual".
Is that really true??????

That is smoke screed to cover up the real problem which is always......SIN!

Until a person confronts the fact that he is a sinner, he can not be saved. Intelligence does not save man. The Lord Jesus Christ is who saves us and until we acknowledge the fact we are sinners, we will never accept the cure for sin which is the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

Once we accept Jesus as the payment for our sin, it is then that we can begin to grow in knowledge of Him and the Father and the Holy Spirit and creation and the Bible.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

To my mind the most exemplary in the faith have a great intellect in their understanding of it. Perhaps the best example is none other than Paul himself who communicated to us a complex series of arguments through his epistles that we are still debating two thousand years later. Jesus' parables and teachings are not unreflective remarks but are also carefully constructed and show a great (divinely revealed) teaching behind them.

Some of the great Christian intellectuals also exhibited the greatest faith. Saint John Damascus, Saint Augustine, Origen, Thomas Aquinas, C.S Lewis and many more.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I have a particular interest in the philosophical and intellectual aspects of the Christian religion, but at the same time, I feel like it's a dead faith to me. Allow me to elaborate. I used to obsess with learning everything I could about Christianity and made sure I had it all right, but multiple times I felt like the Pharisees in the Bible who certainly focused on getting everything right but still missed the point. Also, I feel like there can be a sense of pride or arrogance among the more intellectually inclined, which is what drew me to focus more on introversion and being Spirit-filled. I also started embracing more theologically diverse denominations as I am uncertain about what I believe aside from the basic tenets of the Christian faith that we all share.

Are intellectualism and attempting to understand everything necessarily bad things?

I think that with understanding or studying the different theologies there is bound to be confusion for you. Paul talks about how when we are newer Christians we drink milk and over time move on to eating meat.

Building faith takes time as does understanding theology and prayer. Build a relationship with God and maybe study one smaller issue intellectually. But you need to build your house with a firm foundation because trials will come

 

[StrivingFollower]

Intellectualism gives you a fun challenge, but part of the fun you should notice is maintaining your humility and remembering where you came from. And thinking about how blessed you are to have your curiosity. I'll tell you though, sometimes I get way too addicted to reading. You have to remember the value of prayer. It's the most important part of our practice since it's talking directly to God who strengthens our subconscious.

 

[Abdelas]

I have a particular interest in the philosophical and intellectual aspects of the Christian religion, but at the same time, I feel like it's a dead faith to me. Allow me to elaborate. I used to obsess with learning everything I could about Christianity and made sure I had it all right, but multiple times I felt like the Pharisees in the Bible who certainly focused on getting everything right but still missed the point. Also, I feel like there can be a sense of pride or arrogance among the more intellectually inclined, which is what drew me to focus more on introversion and being Spirit-filled. I also started embracing more theologically diverse denominations as I am uncertain about what I believe aside from the basic tenets of the Christian faith that we all share.

Are intellectualism and attempting to understand everything necessarily bad things?

That's exactly where I was thirty years ago! I am a naturally intellectually-minded person. After graduating with a degree in Biblical (New Testament) Archaeology, I was disillusioned to find that most of the people in my field were actually agnostic at best. I read a lot of theology and studied the Church Fathers, but it just left me cold. I left the Church for three decades. Now my viewpoint is entirely different. Christ preached not to the intellectuals, but to the illiterate common people of Palestine. The Sermon on the Mount guides me more than complex theology. It seems that Christ took a dim view of the "intellectuals" of his day.

 

[FireDragon76]

That's exactly where I was thirty years ago! I am a naturally intellectually-minded person. After graduating with a degree in Biblical (New Testament) Archaeology, I was disillusioned to find that most of the people in my field were actually agnostic at best. I read a lot of theology and studied the Church Fathers, but it just left me cold. I left the Church for three decades. Now my viewpoint is entirely different. Christ preached not to the intellectuals, but to the illiterate common people of Palestine. The Sermon on the Mount guides me more than complex theology. It seems that Christ took a dim view of the "intellectuals" of his day.

I think this is a wise approach. Pure intellectualism is often the road to atheism, where we put the mysteries of the faith under a microscope, judge them wanting, and pretty soon there's nothing left to believe in.

 

[Arsenios]

I have a particular interest in the philosophical and intellectual aspects of the Christian religion, but at the same time, I feel like it's a dead faith to me. Allow me to elaborate. I used to obsess with learning everything I could about Christianity and made sure I had it all right, but multiple times I felt like the Pharisees in the Bible who certainly focused on getting everything right but still missed the point. Also, I feel like there can be a sense of pride or arrogance among the more intellectually inclined, which is what drew me to focus more on introversion and being Spirit-filled. I also started embracing more theologically diverse denominations as I am uncertain about what I believe aside from the basic tenets of the Christian faith that we all share.

Are intellectualism and attempting to understand everything necessarily bad things?

My degree is in Philosophy -
As an atheist I thought the ultimate answers were to be found there...
I was wrong...

Better to confront your own sins and overcome them as best you can...
Do heroic things in this truthful and genuine effort...
God rewards such people who abide in this manner...
And discipline yourself in daily prayer and fasting...
Breakfast breaks the fast from the previous day's last meal...

God bless your efforts...
The Eastern Orthodox Faith disciples all this and more...
But even alone, you will find great reward...
For this is God's will for you...
Repentance...
Then Baptism!

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

The Good-News Gospel of Jesus Christ...
Is...
Repentance for God's Heavenly Kingdom...

"Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at Hand." John the Baptist.
"Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at Hand." Christ after John was killed.
"Repent and be Baptized every one of you..." Peter after Christ's Death.

Do you think mere intellectual repentance will gain you access?
Do you think that there even IS intellectual repentance?

Arsenios

 

[bbbbbbb]

The Good-News Gospel of Jesus Christ...
Is...
Repentance for God's Heavenly Kingdom...

"Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at Hand." John the Baptist.
"Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at Hand." Christ after John was killed.
"Repent and be Baptized every one of you..." Peter after Christ's Death.

Do you think mere intellectual repentance will gain you access?
Do you think that there even IS intellectual repentance?

Arsenios

As I am certain you know, the Greek word for repent is metanoia which simply means to have a change of mind. Thus, without some form of intelligent response to the gospel there can be no genuine repentance.

 

[Arsenios]

As I am certain you know, the Greek word for repent is metanoia which simply means to have a change of mind. Thus, without some form of intelligent response to the gospel there can be no genuine repentance.

Actually, the meaning is: Change of nous...
The "-noia" refers to the nous of man, which is, in fallen man, scattered into the multifarious concerns of this fallen world under the rule of death...
Except in the Body of Christ Who Alone overcame Death...
So that it is entry into Christ that is the essential feature of Salvation IN Christ...
And this comes by repentance, or metanoia, in which the orientation of fallen man is changed from its scattering in the world to an orientation that is pros ton theon [toward God the Creator], and away from ton kosmon [creation]... So it needs a concentration of one's scattered thoughts into one powerful orientation toward God in Spirit and in Truth...

And the simple truth is that fallen man cannot do this... He needs to be discipled by the Body of Christ... And that process begins with turning away from sin, and toward God in thought, word and deed... Because it is not enough to just "change your mind" - We can do that a hundred times a day... What is needed is the purification of the heart, and this comes by embedding in practice ones change of heart that is desired...
And Blessed are the Pure in Heart, for they shall see God...
And it is the encounter between God and man in a purified heart that transfigures man...

This is why the Gospel is a command to DO something - Repent...
Repentance is a lifelong obedience to the Gospel of Jesus Christ...
He who perseveeres to the end shall be Saved.

It's a big deal...

Arsenios

 

[bbbbbbb]

Here is an interest

Actually, the meaning is: Change of nous...
The "-noia" refers to the nous of man, which is, in fallen man, scattered into the multifarious concerns of this fallen world under the rule of death...
Except in the Body of Christ Who Alone overcame Death...
So that it is entry into Christ that is the essential feature of Salvation IN Christ...
And this comes by repentance, or metanoia, in which the orientation of fallen man is changed from its scattering in the world to an orientation that is pros ton theon [toward God the Creator], and away from ton kosmon [creation]... So it needs a concentration of one's scattered thoughts into one powerful orientation toward God in Spirit and in Truth...

And the simple truth is that fallen man cannot do this... He needs to be discipled by the Body of Christ... And that process begins with turning away from sin, and toward God in thought, word and deed... Because it is not enough to just "change your mind" - We can do that a hundred times a day... What is needed is the purification of the heart, and this comes by embedding in practice ones change of heart that is desired...
And Blessed are the Pure in Heart, for they shall see God...
And it is the encounter between God and man in a purified heart that transfigures man...

This is why the Gospel is a command to DO something - Repent...
Repentance is a lifelong obedience to the Gospel of Jesus Christ...
He who perseveeres to the end shall be Saved.

It's a big deal...

Arsenios

Here is the Wikipedia (fount of all wisdom) entry for metanoia - Metanoia - Wikipedia

There is a decided mental aspect to repentance. However, if one claims to change one's mind regarding something, but does not act upon that change, then one has not really changed one's mind.

One example might suffice. If one is in a large building in which a fire has broken out and alarms go off, one might be inclined to change one's mind concerning the state of the building even though there is no physical evidence for a fire where one might happen to be in the building. Having gained the information regarding the fire, if one continues one's activity and does not act on the information and flees the building then there is no actual repentance.