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first of all...["Well, I do feel better that the option is at least open for me. I'm in no hurry to reconvert right now."]fragile one said:Well, I do feel better that the option is at least open for me. I'm in no hurry to reconvert right now. I don't want to be like most of the Christians I have met. I'm a lover, not a hater. I don't want to be a racist. I don't want to hate people who disagree with me. I don't want to hate people because they aren't Christians. That's just not me. I know not all Christians are like that, but that was the type of church I grew up in, and that was the type of Christian group they had at university, and I don't want to be like that at all. So...I'll wait and test the waters a bit before I make any major decisions.
James 4:14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
1 John 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
What we have a problem with is the pastor saying "He said that since I had turned my back on God, God turned his back on me"Asar'el said:We might be straying a bit from the opening post, so I would like to go back to it.
And, for a shocker... - I am going to, in a sense, disagree with everyone (or at least most!) here - or at least, in part; let me explain:
My question to the original poster is, Are you sincere enough, and do you love God enough to answer this fellow as I think you should? To say, I believe my Father will not turn me away, and I will knock until the door is opened or I die before it!
Yes, you will always be given a chance to return. No matter how many times you stray. With this caveat: you are sincere in coming back.Do not think lightly on what you have done; nor, if you should find God merciful to you again, immagine that you will always be given a chance to return, when you depart from Him.
If they are not nice to you, it's a question whether you would be spending eternity with them.fragile one said:So I can't especially say that I would never look at the actions of those in a religion to help me decide if I really want to be part of that religion or not. I mean, if I really am going to be spending an eternity with a group of people, I'd like for them to at least be nice to me sometimes
christiangal522 said:It makes me sick to my stomach that a pastor/priest/whatever would say that to you. What a fool...and a pharisee! Stray as you may, Jesus will always welcome you back...(look at the prodigal son...an amazing, encouraging story). You are loved...even when you stray!
While I sympathize with your answers, I do not agree with them.lucaspa said:What we have a problem with is the pastor saying "He said that since I had turned my back on God, God turned his back on me"
1. The pastor presumes to speak for God. Absolutely.
2. The pastor's views go against what Jesus and God say plainly in other areas of the Bible. We think the pastor took the verses out of context and made the Bible say something it really doesn't.
Therefore, I disagree with your answer. Your answer presumes the pastor is correct. I say he wasn't.
then the assistant pastor will have uttered a true prophecy. As I said earlier, I believe he [fragile one] still has a chance to return, and perhaps, just perhaps, the assistant pastor was so moved of God to test the young man's sincerity. But I think he's also in grave peril, for his life, like any of ours, may be required at any moment - and he is yet outside the fold, and luke-warm, and not, rather, leaping, striving, seeking to return!fragile one said:Well, I do feel better that the option is at least open for me. I'm in no hurry to reconvert right now. I don't want to be like most of the Christians I have met. I'm a lover, not a hater. I don't want to be a racist. I don't want to hate people who disagree with me. I don't want to hate people because they aren't Christians. That's just not me. I know not all Christians are like that, but that was the type of church I grew up in, and that was the type of Christian group they had at university, and I don't want to be like that at all. So...I'll wait and test the waters a bit before I make any major decisions.
One chance is more than we deserve - and some get none. To squander, and refuse what we are offered, and think there is always time, is folly. I respectfully submit that noone is ever guaranteed a chance to return.lucaspa said:Yes, you will always be given a chance to return. No matter how many times you stray. With this caveat: you are sincere in coming back.
Now, if you stray and come back just so that you will avoid going to hell, then God is going to know that you are not sincere but acting only out of selfishness and fear, not conviction. But then, you aren't really coming back, are you?
The idea of infinite forgiveness is foreign to us humans. If your friend stabs you in the back more than once, there comes a time when he can no longer, ever, be your friend again. Humans do have a point where we don't give chances anymore. For me, Bush no longer has a chance to convince me he is appropriate to be President. But God isn't people. He doesn't stop giving chances.
be careful about this. If this were held as true, then my sister would have been declared a Christian while she was smoking, drinking, poor, and many other evil things. To say that once a person is 'saved' at a point in their life is to take a great leap of faith to say that it was a genuine true conversion. It is not good to tell someone that they will go to heaven when they will not.Machin Shin said:yes, I believe that if you are saved, "it is a gift of God, that no man may boast". therefore, if there is nothing you can do to earn it, there is nothing you can do to have it taken away. anything that is free, "but if you do this, you loose it" is not free.
I agree,jesus is just waiting for you to make the decision to come back to him.Hes not mad at you ,he loves you.He wants you to come back to him,he wont turn you away.And what what that so called preacher told you is not true at all.Justlike the post says above peter denied jesus not once but three times,and he came back to christ and ended up being a great man of god.All you have to do is ask him for forgiveness and start following him again.and there you go,your back in the family,good as new.Just be sure you find a GOOD church to go to,one that preaches whats in the bible,not just the first one you go to.God Bless.Bizzlebin Imperatoris said:First of all, the church that was preaching these things is doing evil. They are not only putting a stumbling block up for others but making non Biblical doctrines necessary for salvation. This is NOT Christianity.
Anyways, think of Peter. He renounced Jesus 3 times and still came back to God. I don't think there is anything stopping you from doing it.
I believe that if you are truely saved that you will know it beyond a shadow of a doubt. as my pastor always says, if you're only 99.9% saved, then you're 100% lost. I never said he WAS saved, I said "if". it's up to him to know if he's saved or not, as noone but himself and God can truely know the answer.butxifxnot said:be careful about this. If this were held as true, then my sister would have been declared a Christian while she was smoking, drinking, poor, and many other evil things. To say that once a person is 'saved' at a point in their life is to take a great leap of faith to say that it was a genuine true conversion. It is not good to tell someone that they will go to heaven when they will not.
Actually, I'm female.Asar'el said:then the assistant pastor will have uttered a true prophecy. As I said earlier, I believe he [fragile one] still has a chance to return, and perhaps, just perhaps, the assistant pastor was so moved of God to test the young man's sincerity. But I think he's also in grave peril, for his life, like any of ours, may be required at any moment - and he is yet outside the fold, and luke-warm, and not, rather, leaping, striving, seeking to return!
I sometimes say stuff in my mind that i don't want to say. I know, it's wierd, but it happens to me. If i said that Jesus's works are from the Devil (which i do not believe AT ALL), am i eternally damned? Just for saying it without even thinking it?Reformationist said:Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is to know that the works of the Spirit are the works of God but to profess they are the works of satan.
We can make tests against what else we know of God and see if the pastor's view is consistent with what else we know. And the test shows the pastor is not consistent with that. God is supposed to be consistent.Therefore, a conclusion that the pastor is in error is justified.Asar'el said:Be careful what you say of God's ministers - christiangal522 calling one a fool, etc. - for you do not know the man's standing with the Lord!
I will maintain what I said: be not too rash to decide it was folly of a man of God to declare what he has - how do we know what God might put in the mouth of His prophet?
Then fragile one belongs to God whether she ever makes a positive declaration or not. Following God is not always making a clear declaration of such. Paul warned of people who cried "Lord, Lord" but did not the work. Fragile one is doing the work without the declaration.Verily, if fragile one continues as he has indicated,
Well, I do feel better that the option is at least open for me. I'm in no hurry to reconvert right now. I don't want to be like most of the Christians I have met. I'm a lover, not a hater. I don't want to be a racist. I don't want to hate people who disagree with me. I don't want to hate people because they aren't Christians. That's just not me.
Read the post by PRMan. Jesus disagrees.One chance is more than we deserve - and some get none. To squander, and refuse what we are offered, and think there is always time, is folly. I respectfully submit that noone is ever guaranteed a chance to return.
None of the things you listed are "evil" according to Christianity! What was Jesus' first miracle? Turning water into wine so people could keep drinking! And since when did being "poor" become evil? Aren't the poor "blessed" according to the Sermon on the Mount? Don't rich people have more trouble getting into the Kingdom than the poor?butxifxnot said:be careful about this. If this were held as true, then my sister would have been declared a Christian while she was smoking, drinking, poor, and many other evil things.
and why is it not an equally great leap of faith to say it wasn't? However, even if it was a true conversion at the time, the person can still change their mind and life.To say that once a person is 'saved' at a point in their life is to take a great leap of faith to say that it was a genuine true conversion.
Now you hit a point I can agree with! Yes, if someone declares they are "saved", and then uses that as a Get Out of Jail Free card or a license to do whatever they want, no matter if it goes against the core values of Christianity, then that should be trouble.As for coming back to God, Simon-Peter turned from God, and came back later. The Israelites were rejected and then received time and time again. But those that use the blood of Christ as an excuse for an occasion of the flesh, they will be judged.
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