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A Sinner
- May 11, 2004
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Oh, I do not wish to debate, I just want to see the scriptures. That is allCPman2004 said:
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Oh, I do not wish to debate, I just want to see the scriptures. That is allCPman2004 said:Hey now. Lets not get into a debate that doesn't really have anything to do with the point of the OP.
I did not ever claim to hold such a view. Anyways, thanks for looking for scripturesVigil said:it is your right, you can believe that new born infants go to straight to Hell if they die. Please forgive me however if on that issue we will need to agree to disagree.
fragile one said:Well, I do feel better that the option is at least open for me. I'm in no hurry to reconvert right now. I don't want to be like most of the Christians I have met. I'm a lover, not a hater. I don't want to be a racist. I don't want to hate people who disagree with me. I don't want to hate people because they aren't Christians. That's just not me. I know not all Christians are like that, but that was the type of church I grew up in, and that was the type of Christian group they had at university, and I don't want to be like that at all. So...I'll wait and test the waters a bit before I make any major decisions.
I agree that this child did make it, and that some do, but is there any scripture saying that all go to heaven? Or that they are indeed blameless?Vigil said:The Key word here is I will go to him thus David knew he bound for Heaven because of his favor with the Lord, so if we was to Go to His Child it would be a Meeting in Heaven.
I hope that provides for you an adequate answer as to the idea that Infants and young children are held blameless in the eyes of God. However there is no Mention of the Age of Accountability.
Vigil said:Until the age of Accountability, God knows you do not comprehend what it is your doing.
James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; James 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Vigil said:As with all things, one would allow for a Just and Knowing creator that is All Loving to know the mind of a child, and know when we realize when have done wrong have come to an age of Accountability. This is not a direct verse in the Bible, and cannot be found any place, because God has said nothing for it. Now, either we can accept that God in his Omniscience knows our intents, or he cannot, and with his Just and Righteous Judgment, Will make accommodations for our youth until such time as they come to develop reasoning skills. They can lie to us about it, but they cannot lie to God. That is why God set no Age exactly because each child is different. However the custom of the Jewish people that you are an Adult at 13, perpetuates the idea that there are different considerations on Gods part between children and adults.
We might be straying a bit from the opening post, so I would like to go back to it.fragile one said:Hi, I'm new here.
My ma and da raised me Protestant from birth. When I was a child, I did become a Christian in my heart. I loved Jesus very much. When I was 18, I went away to university and fell in with a different crowd, eventually renounced Christianity and became an eclectic pagan. I was really into that religion for a time, but after a few years I fell out of favor with the faith and decided it wasn't for me, either. I still have much respect for pagans, and many of my friends are pagans, but it just isn't for me.
Da was in the hospital this past month after having a blood clot in his leg (he's fine now, just on blood thinners, and strong as ever). While there, someone from my former church came and prayed for him. He seemed to have a very gentle, loving faith, which was totally alien to me. Ma and Da loved me, of course, but the church was so stiff and unkind to everyone (some of the things preached when I was a child - voting for a democrat damned you to hell, women who went to college were damned to hell, if you didn't give 10% of your money to the church you were damned to hell, if you didn't fast at least once a week you were damned to hell, if you didn't attend every church service offered at the church you were damned to hell, etc). Da told me a new pastor had come to the church, and the church is much different now, not like it used to be when I was a child at all.
I was really moved by the new pastor's faith, so when the associate pastor of the church came to pray with Da, I asked him out in the hall if it were possible for someone who has strayed so badly from the Christian faith to come back. The associate pastor asked about what had happened to make me fade away from the church, so I told him everything. He asked me if I had truly renounced Jesus, and I said yes, at the time I had. He then told me that no, there was no way for me to come back to Christianity, and that I am damned with no hope at all. He gave me several bible verses. He said that since I had turned my back on God, God turned his back on me (2 Chronicles 15:2) and that I am damned because I had turned my back on my first faith (1 Timothy 5:12), and that I had committed the unpardonable sin and there is no hope of forgiveness for me at all (Mark 3:22-30).
So, do you all think he was right? My heart has been really sad since I have been told these words.
Your pastor is a goon for telling you that. Your sad heart is enough to tell me that yes, you can come back! God will and does forgive you! Read this, it will help you !!fragile one said:Hi, I'm new here.
My ma and da raised me Protestant from birth. When I was a child, I did become a Christian in my heart. I loved Jesus very much. When I was 18, I went away to university and fell in with a different crowd, eventually renounced Christianity and became an eclectic pagan. I was really into that religion for a time, but after a few years I fell out of favor with the faith and decided it wasn't for me, either. I still have much respect for pagans, and many of my friends are pagans, but it just isn't for me.
Da was in the hospital this past month after having a blood clot in his leg (he's fine now, just on blood thinners, and strong as ever). While there, someone from my former church came and prayed for him. He seemed to have a very gentle, loving faith, which was totally alien to me. Ma and Da loved me, of course, but the church was so stiff and unkind to everyone (some of the things preached when I was a child - voting for a democrat damned you to hell, women who went to college were damned to hell, if you didn't give 10% of your money to the church you were damned to hell, if you didn't fast at least once a week you were damned to hell, if you didn't attend every church service offered at the church you were damned to hell, etc). Da told me a new pastor had come to the church, and the church is much different now, not like it used to be when I was a child at all.
I was really moved by the new pastor's faith, so when the associate pastor of the church came to pray with Da, I asked him out in the hall if it were possible for someone who has strayed so badly from the Christian faith to come back. The associate pastor asked about what had happened to make me fade away from the church, so I told him everything. He asked me if I had truly renounced Jesus, and I said yes, at the time I had. He then told me that no, there was no way for me to come back to Christianity, and that I am damned with no hope at all. He gave me several bible verses. He said that since I had turned my back on God, God turned his back on me (2 Chronicles 15:2) and that I am damned because I had turned my back on my first faith (1 Timothy 5:12), and that I had committed the unpardonable sin and there is no hope of forgiveness for me at all (Mark 3:22-30).
So, do you all think he was right? My heart has been really sad since I have been told these words.
Someone told you to remember the parable of the Prodigal Son. You might also remember the parable of the shepherd and sheep, where the shepherd keeps looking for the lost sheep, even tho 99 are still in the flock.fragile one said:So I became a Christian. Maybe I didn't know what I was doing at the time, but I do believe I was organised well enough to know what it meant by the time I was 17. So before I became a pagan, I did know what I was doing.
fragile one said:{snip} However, I don't honestly know if I was rebelling against God or rebelling against what I knew as Christianity. I was formally ex-communicated by my church once I went to university (women shouldn't go to university) and left our city. I was hoping for some type of good Christian friends at university, but the town was small and the only church group there was like the one I had left behind (although they did believe it was okay for women to go to university). So I'm not sure what I was really denying and what I was not.Perhaps that would make a difference. {snip} /QUOTE]
Actually, i believe you have hit the nail on the proverbial headFrom your posts, i honestly believe you had religion (Christianity) and not a relationship with the living God through Jesus the Christ (saying you were brought up Protestant, that you judge Christ and Christianity by the actions of some Christians) I never, even when sharing with Roman Catholics, emphasis my being "Protestant" I am a born-again Christian (to differentiate from those who would say, without knowledge or newness of life "ya, i'm a "Christian" too) And i've learned a long time ago NEVER to judge Christ and His salvation by the words/actions of Christians (sometimes those of myself as well) If you have a true relationship with Christ, you WILL follow Him though all other's forsake Him. You will rely on His Word and His Spirit to help keep your eyes on Jesus at ALL times.
The legacy of the true Church of Jesus is a wonderful one, filled with ordinary person's who did extraordinary things because of the Christ in them, the "hope of glory"
Serve Christ and Him alone - dead religion is a curse and bondage. Christ calls you to true freedom - found only in HIM !!!
Hebrews 12:1-2 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Ray
Ah yes, but this is North America. In Ireland, it is not the same. You have probably heard of the strife in Northern Ireland between Protestants and Catholics (thankfully there is mostly a ceasefire now, although tension can flare up). There, for the most part, you are either Protestant or Catholic, no middle ground to be had. It's more of a cultural thing than a religious thing.I never, even when sharing with Roman Catholics, emphasis my being "Protestant"
Yes, but that is difficult. Maybe it's just difficult for me, I don't know. When I went to university, I visited many schools with my da and of course I looked to see if the academics were good, if a broad range of majors were offered, how qualified the professors were, etc. But one of the main determinants for me choosing the university I attended was the student body. Did I like them? Could I find myself fitting in there? Were they nice to me? Did I want to be part of this group? The university I chose, the student body was diverse and pretty accepting of everyone else (including those of us with "foreign" accentsAthanasian Creed said:And i've learned a long time ago NEVER to judge Christ and His salvation by the words/actions of Christians (sometimes those of myself as well)
All the more reason my dear to differentiate between dead religion and true, life transforming faith in God through Christ. There are many (and you are quite aware being Irish) that profess to be "Christian" but their words/actions show, by God's Word, otherwise.fragile one said:Ah yes, but this is North America. In Ireland, it is not the same. You have probably heard of the strife in Northern Ireland between Protestants and Catholics (thankfully there is mostly a ceasefire now, although tension can flare up). There, for the most part, you are either Protestant or Catholic, no middle ground to be had. It's more of a cultural thing than a religious thing.
fragile one said:Hi, I'm new here.
My ma and da raised me Protestant from birth. When I was a child, I did become a Christian in my heart. I loved Jesus very much. When I was 18, I went away to university and fell in with a different crowd, eventually renounced Christianity and became an eclectic pagan. I was really into that religion for a time, but after a few years I fell out of favor with the faith and decided it wasn't for me, either. I still have much respect for pagans, and many of my friends are pagans, but it just isn't for me.
Da was in the hospital this past month after having a blood clot in his leg (he's fine now, just on blood thinners, and strong as ever). While there, someone from my former church came and prayed for him. He seemed to have a very gentle, loving faith, which was totally alien to me. Ma and Da loved me, of course, but the church was so stiff and unkind to everyone (some of the things preached when I was a child - voting for a democrat damned you to hell, women who went to college were damned to hell, if you didn't give 10% of your money to the church you were damned to hell, if you didn't fast at least once a week you were damned to hell, if you didn't attend every church service offered at the church you were damned to hell, etc). Da told me a new pastor had come to the church, and the church is much different now, not like it used to be when I was a child at all.
I was really moved by the new pastor's faith, so when the associate pastor of the church came to pray with Da, I asked him out in the hall if it were possible for someone who has strayed so badly from the Christian faith to come back. The associate pastor asked about what had happened to make me fade away from the church, so I told him everything. He asked me if I had truly renounced Jesus, and I said yes, at the time I had. He then told me that no, there was no way for me to come back to Christianity, and that I am damned with no hope at all. He gave me several bible verses. He said that since I had turned my back on God, God turned his back on me (2 Chronicles 15:2) and that I am damned because I had turned my back on my first faith (1 Timothy 5:12), and that I had committed the unpardonable sin and there is no hope of forgiveness for me at all (Mark 3:22-30).
So, do you all think he was right? My heart has been really sad since I have been told these words.
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