Is there an Atheist preference for the Democratic party going on here?

BPPLEE said:

Israel and the Church are separate. Gentiles are said to be grafted in but we are still separate from Israel. Some people teach replacement theology, that the Church replaced Israel and all the Old Testament promises God made were transferred to the Church. This is the kind of thinking that leads to antisemitism. I'm not a theologian but I'm not sure what he means when he says the Church is Israel.

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I'm not sure either....like I said...never heard it before.

BPPLEE said:

Israel and the Church are separate. Gentiles are said to be grafted in but we are still separate from Israel. Some people teach replacement theology, that the Church replaced Israel and all the Old Testament promises God made were transferred to the Church. This is the kind of thinking that leads to antisemitism. I'm not a theologian but I'm not sure what he means when he says the Church is Israel.

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It is replacement theology in reverse essentially They want to claim that the Church is grafted into Israel and that Israel and the Church are now one and the same and typically a good portion of these people want gentile Christians to keep parts of the Old Testament that were for Jews under the Law (Israel).... like the Sabbath for one.
I and others believe we are grafted into Jesus himself as was Israel and there is scripture that equates unbelieving Israel as a bad branch so to speak. By grafting us into Jesus we are not under the Law, but grafting us into or replacing Israel and in turn being called Israel puts us back under the Law of Moses.
Paul equates Jew and Gentile (in Christ) are the same. He doesn't equate Israel as being "in Christ".

rjs330 said:

Well that's not what the research says.

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There is research regarding my father's voting habits?

Ana the Ist said:

Still...some small subjects of no real matter are left open to me. News and Current Events, Ethics and Morality, and Politics.

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This is the most heavily moderated forum I've ever been involved with. I'm regularly surprised with warnings that I receive. I've never ever had warnings ever elsewhere.
Us non Christians are treated like second class citizens here, hearded up into a very small section of the forum, not allowed to talk about specific topics, not allowed to even challenge any Christian beliefs, and we seem to have to hold certain things in high regard and as special otherwise we get warned for those as well. Anyway, yeah, not a lot of topics we can talk about here.

Ana the Ist said:

That pivoted pretty quickly into a sort of cultural tirade against white people where lots if excuses for being racist against white people were propagated and accepted as well as all the other signifiers of rampant racism like blatant scapegoating to the defamation of white historical figures for any possible flaw....except a few.

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As far as I understand it there is already a large prominent set of groups in USA, some front row and centre on popular media channels taking up the fight for white people. You are not really being a lone promoter of white issues in USA.

Many on the right are worried about the poor whites or the poor Christians, despite the fact that USA is dominated by white Christians, all most all parts of USA is controlled and dominated by white Christians.

When all I see are threads from you on White issues, then I slot you into this White culture (I understand you are not a Christian). I do this because that is all I see from you. Poor whites on this topic, poor whites on this incident. Very rarely have I seen you speak about any other topic.

In my view, of course there are issues against whites. I for one am not a proponent of affirmative action. BUT, I think there are so many issues in society, that this issue is certainly not the top issue, not even close to the top issue.
I find it very weird that this has seemed to be the only topic a poster has been posting about, creating thread after thread after thread on only this topic.

Ana the Ist said:

..the same poster would only point out (much like yourself) how annoying it was for me to bring up these sort of blatant examples of racism towards white people.

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I'd be fine if I saw you posting other topics, and siding with non whites once in a while.

But anyway, I am liking that you are in this thread here, talking about a different topic.

Ana the Ist said:

Edit- and be honest. You either deliberately or accidentally mischaracterized me in your post. I doubt you have ever seen me say "white people are oppressed".

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This is what I get from the tone of pretty much all threads I have seen you create, and pretty much all posts (except for this one) that I have seen you post in.

ViaCrucis said:

But Capitalism, unrestrained, unchecked, unregulated is pure and absolute evil run amok.

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I think the vast majority of capitalists would agree with you. Capitalism is the best way to bring people out of poverty and has been the train that has driven the world to the advanced it has had. It has provided for more wealth for more people.

BUT it does need to be regulated appropriately. Not over regulated because when the government over regulated it then business gets in bed with government to supply things that government want supplies in the way it wants it supplied.

Under regulation is just as bad because business can run amok without it.

It's a very difficult balance. And we have moved to over regulation.

ViaCrucis said:

One of my major criticisms against the present religious climate in American Christianity is precisely the failure to preach repentance. Christians are not hearing the Law preached (or the Gospel for that matter); instead here is what I have observed over the years: Christians are being fed a form of comfortable religion that says that, in essence, it is okay to not follow Jesus as long as one supports the right "team"; and so true repentance is not being preached. The number of times which I have interacted with fellow Christians who argue insistently that the Christian will not have to face Judgment on the Last Day is staggering and sad. And the flip of that is also the rampant moralizing that ignores the commandments of God in favor of pure man-made rules.

The Church needs to preach Law and Gospel. The Law, with its commandments, drives us to our knees in repentance as we behold the reality of our own sinfulness; I don't love God with all my heart, all my strength, all my mind, and with all my soul; I don't love my neighbor as myself; I don't turn the other cheek, I don't bless and not curse, I don't walk the extra mile. I am a sinner. So my charge is that Christians have forgotten that they are sinners, not ex-sinners, not sinners who are doing better than other sinners, but wretched sinners and should confess to themselves, "I am the chief of sinners" as St. Paul does. Because without this, there is no repentance, and without repentance we shipwreck our faith.

The Law to be preached as Law.
The Gospel to be preached as Gospel.

Never mixing the two, confusing the two, not preaching empty vacuous moralism rather than the Law, and not treating the Gospel of Jesus Christ as just another set of commandments, but as God-come-down-to-sinners-to-save-them.

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This is VERY VERY TRUE. Well said.

ViaCrucis said:

What is the exploitation of the poor but the worship of money and power?

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That is not a worship of capitalism. And the real exploitation of the poor comes fr the left, keeping people in poverty so they can exploit them for votes and power.

ViaCrucis said:

Nope. But affirming the human right to consenting love with another adult doesn't exploit, abuse, or injure anyone. So not exactly a great comparison.

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You're awful free with tossing around the worshipping of this and that then excuse those churches who support sin within the church as not worshipping it.

And if you don't think sin doesn't exploit, abuse or injure anyone, you need to study about the consequences of sin. In this world and the next.

ViaCrucis said:

I've seen some who I think who worship the pride and arrogance of human ambition and progress, and worship an ideal over working toward justice and equity. So, yeah.

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Just to be clear you do believe those that believe in socialism are worshipping socialism. A simple yes or no works well. Im sorry but I had a little difficulty understanding your response.

stevil said:

This is the most heavily moderated forum I've ever been involved with. I'm regularly surprised with warnings that I receive. I've never ever had warnings ever elsewhere.

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Yeah we aren't supposed to talk about it but I've regularly faced warnings for posts that are either extremely common and go unremoved when reported....or so unbelievably benign I was surprised I was facing a warning for it.

Us non Christians are treated like second class citizens here, hearded up into a very small section of the forum, not allowed to talk about specific topics, not allowed to even challenge any Christian beliefs, and we seem to have to hold certain things in high regard and as special otherwise we get warned for those as well. Anyway, yeah, not a lot of topics we can talk about here.

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Right and I try to look at it from their perspective.

They got on the internet around the same time as everyone else. These discussion forums were set up so Christians of multiple faiths could share and discuss their beliefs with each other....and hey, if some non-Christians want to come in and see what it's all about, why not?

Then here comes this horde of atheists who descended upon these sites and endlessly attacked every belief, often deliberately mean or mocking, and sometimes vicious. All things considered, I'm surprised it went on as long as it did. We were high fiving each other because we didn't even know how many other atheists there were.

I get why our participation is limited...even if it's clearly a double standard. It's a series of steps towards no longer discussing their beliefs. Ok. I can understand the reaction. Think of how many pews were emptying over the same time. I know a lot of atheists who seemed like good, kind people who left. I'd rather stay if only as a reminder we still exist. Ideological bubbles have a tendency to promote the idea that far more people agree with you than in reality. Unchallenged beliefs tend to be weak in the face of challenges. There's some small value in staying even if I'm only allowed in 1 space only to speak my mind with no one...as long as they can see it.

As far as I understand it there is already a large prominent set of groups in USA, some front row and centre on popular media channels taking up the fight for white people. You are not really being a lone promoter of white issues in USA.

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Yeah I'm not sure we're understanding each other....right? Because I don't know what "white issues" are. I'm talking about racism.

The same old fashioned "we judge you according to your skin color racism" that has existed in this country for so long. It's always included things like moral judgements. These people are lazy....those people are greedy....those people too promiscuous....and so on.

Whenever this has popped up....reared it's ugly head....I was always on the side against it. I still am. I haven't changed my position on the issue of racism. The party that I used to think agreed with me...changed it's position in a very large way. They tried to redefine racism. They tried to reinvent racism.

You'd agree with that....right?

Many on the right are worried about the poor whites or the poor Christians,

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I don't identify with the right. I care just as much about the poor of this nation, regardless of race or creed, as I have in the past. I don't see either party agreeing with me on this point anymore.

espite the fact that USA is dominated by white Christians, all most all parts of USA is controlled and dominated by white Christians.

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What does that mean in your mind? Controlled and dominated?

When all I see are threads from you on White issues, then I slot you into this White culture (I understand you are not a Christian).

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I think you can more accurately characterize it as Western culture or if you prefer, classic liberalism. I however, have begun to question whether some of these ideas were a bit naive....even if they were idealistic.

I do this because that is all I see from you. Poor whites on this topic, poor whites on this incident. Very rarely have I seen you speak about any other topic.

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Did you complain when the NYT mentioned white supremacy 400+ times in a year? We agree that the choices of discussion are limited. I can point out posts on different topics if you want. I don't make many threads....so for the most part, I'm simply joining a discussion in progress.

I made a thread about abortion in general around the time of the Kavanaugh hearing that was removed for violation so fast it didn't exceed 2 pages. I didn't actually endorse any positions...I introduced a topic of discussion. This apparently, can be construed as endorsement though...so I accepted that. I figured they simply didn't want to discuss abortion....and I'm ok with that. When you consider how many posts on the topic have been made since Roe got overturned....maybe they're changing their position and allowing more discussion. Regardless....I'm staying away.

In my view, of course there are issues against whites. I for one am not a proponent of affirmative action. BUT, I think there are so many issues in society, that this issue is certainly not the top issue, not even close to the top issue.

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What's the top issue in your mind?

I find it very weird that this has seemed to be the only topic a poster has been posting about, creating thread after thread after thread on only this topic.

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I get that. There's a poster who would regularly post (not much anymore) in News and Current Events on racism towards black people. Anything...no matter how small....or even debunked, was a new thread. People would argue with this poster (myself included) and eventually....they would make the same accusations you're leveling at me.

You post about this too much.

And in those cases...I defended them. It's discussion forum after all. You don't have to participate. Do you expect others to create forums that you're interested in?

And what are the dates of my last 3 threads? I don't think I create these threads as often as you think. Is it possible that because we hold different positions that these posts are causing a sort of....over valuation in your mind?

I'd be fine if I saw you posting other topics, and siding with non whites once in a while.

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Pretty sure I came out firmly against Derek Chauvin. I don't know if there's a significant incident between 2020 and now that doesn't have any clear comparison to that. I didn't side against Chauvin or for Floyd because of their skin color though. I wouldn't actually side with anyone over skin color unless I was forced to....but that's not a realistic scenario in my lifetime.

But anyway, I am liking that you are in this thread here, talking about a different topic.

This is what I get from the tone of pretty much all threads I have seen you create, and pretty much all posts (except for this one) that I have seen you post in.

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I can understand why if I make arguments against the left....it seems like I'm on the right. I'm really not. I agree generally on some issues, disagree on others. The propensity towards Christianity means I will almost inevitably disagree strongly on some issues....so there's no point in standing in some imaginary solidarity with them.

The group that is really the only group I despise to the degree of a visceral sense of hatred, disgust, or loathing is....moralizers.

I don't even hate racists as much as a person who wants to impose some moral positions on me. I've seen Black Israelites....I've heard what they say to passing white people. I get why it can be shocking....it looks kind of funny after awhile. It's just words...they're trying hard to provoke... they want a reaction. I don't hate them even if they hate me.

For most of my life....moralizers were Christians. They might show up at my door on Saturday and they can easily be dismissed by saying "not interested". They might cobble together a political platform that seeks to impose a religious moral belief....but I don't always disagree. They may find it an affront to God to teach children about sex and gender at an early age....I'm simply concerned about bad science, activist driven propaganda, and the likelihood of significant harm.

You know what I've never seen though?

I've never seen droves of Christians in the streets, wearing masks, beating people with signs or chains, bottles, or otherwise trying to deny them their freedoms. For the most part they simply don't want to be forced to adopt someone else's moral dictates in contrast to their own. I'm fully able to accept that...even if I disagree. We can live side by side doing our own thing. They show no inclination to do something like....impose upon my speech or remove me from my job for wrongthink. They've become a very live and let live group that will debate the value of an idea. Sure, there's some troubling groups....there some loose bolts.....but nothing worse than ever before.

Compared to the left? The modern left has as far as I can tell....abandoned all values and almost constantly seeks to impose a nebulous shifting morality on any possible target. What do they possibly have to offer you that you would put up with that? Do you not feel entitled to your beliefs, values, opinions, etc? If my choices are between a mildly annoying group of moralizers willing to leave me be....and arguably the worst people who seem to imagine themselves hovering above me on some cloud of moral righteousness but couldn't string together a cogent position even if I taught them how....

Yeah. You're going to see me arguing for the Christians or the right. I tend to be a pragmatic person on these "lesser of 2 evils" issues. I can't understand why anyone would advance the agenda of people who literally devalue your worth because of the color of your skin.

stevil said:

Many on the right are worried about the poor whites or the poor Christians, despite the fact that USA is dominated by white Christians, all most all parts of USA is controlled and dominated by white Christians.

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Dominated? What do you mean by dominated? As the left is so fond of mentioning, there are fewer and fewer Christians in America. They also pointed out the heavily populated areas are all dominated by non-believers.

So I'd like to know what your definition of dominated by means.

Ana the Ist said:

Atheism is such a non-position that there's not much important about not believing God. Not really. It's far more important why you don't....and how that conclusion was reached.

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Rejecting the evidence..?

rjs330 said:

A division that was started by the democrats.

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So 'It's not all us over here. It's all them over there'.

Of course it is...

Ana the Ist said:

Yeah I'm not sure we're understanding each other....right? Because I don't know what "white issues" are. I'm talking about racism.

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Can you provide a link to a thread that you started where you were concerned about racism towards black people?

Bradskii said:

Rejecting the evidence..?

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Case in point....there's already a large difference between us.

You say you considered evidence and rejected it.

I'd say I looked for evidence and never found any.

We clearly have different ideas about evidence, truth, what can be known, etc.

We don't arrive at atheism the same way.

rjs330 said:

Dominated? What do you mean by dominated? As the left is so fond of mentioning, there are fewer and fewer Christians in America. They also pointed out the heavily populated areas are all dominated by non-believers.

So I'd like to know what your definition of dominated by means.

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Which presidents have been non Christian?

Ana the Ist said:

Compared to the left? The modern left has as far as I can tell....abandoned all values and almost constantly seeks to impose a nebulous shifting morality on any possible target. What do they possibly have to offer you that you would put up with that?

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In my opinion governments should but out of the idea of being an authority on morality.

Morality is nonsense in my opinion.

Govt is here to make sure society functions, is safe and thriving.
And what I typically see from the Democratic Party is that they don't want to control people, they want people to make their own choices, they don't want to force Christianity or Christian values on people, they don't want to stop gays from marrying, they don't want to stop Transvestites from having operations, they don't want to stop women from having abortions.

stevil said:

Which presidents have been non Christian?

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Thomas Jefferson was a Deist. George Washington and James Madison also had Deist leanings, and might not count as Christian according to this site's standards.

Abraham Lincoln didn't specify a religious preference, and might not have met this site's standards for being a Christian.

Ana the Ist said:

Case in point....there's already a large difference between us.

You say you considered evidence and rejected it.

I'd say I looked for evidence and never found any.

We clearly have different ideas about evidence, truth, what can be known, etc.

We don't arrive at atheism the same way.

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I'm pretty certain that if you looked for evidence of God's existence there would have been no end of examples of what any given Christian would tell you is 'evidence'. I've read and listened to what I'd say is all of it. As, I assume, have you.

Whether you actively seek it (which I think one should if one wants to class oneself as an atheist) or it's been presented to you (an all too regular occurence) I think that we can both agree that we rejected all of it.

Yttrium said:

Thomas Jefferson was a Deist.

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Jefferson actually made his own bible (now in the Smithsonian) from which he exised all references to Jesus' divinity. Obviously not a Christian.

In passing, our current Prime Minister is an atheist. As was our PM in 2010.

Ana the Ist said:

You say you considered evidence and rejected it.

I'd say I looked for evidence and never found any.

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Me, I'm ignostic, which means I am waiting for someone to present a properly formed claim before I seek or consider any evidence for or against it.

As yet, I've not seen any falsifiable claims, so they don't meet a standard that allows for validation via discovery of, or evaluation of, evidence.

rjs330 said:

I know that if Trump runs again I hope he is soundly defeated in the primaries. We have much better people who could run and still get things done without the Trump baggage.

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Still waiting to see one of these “better people”. So far the field looks like a six pack of TrumpLite with better hair.