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Is there an answer to this question?
- Thread starter MoreCoffee
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Concepts do exist. They are real enough. People who own bitcoins know perfectly well they are real. If you have a dollar in your pocket, its value is no more real than the value of a bitcoin.
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The particles that make up our universe can pull tricks like being in two places at once until they are checked and then being in only one place; going through a barrier as if it wasn't there, sometimes; going from place a to place b without passing through the space in between; transforming to alternate particle or particles while keeping up certain traits along the way; having unspecified traits that aren't determined until they are looked at; winding up in alternate locations from the same starting point on a random basis.
Hmmm. I think the particles that make up our substrates are mysterious enough to make a materialistic philosophy seem unsound all by themselves!
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Are bitcoins so real we can touch them?
I can understand why creationists can not admit that concepts and ideas are not real, I really can.
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True Scotsman
Objectivist
The law of non-contradiction is a corollary to the law of identity, and the primacy of existence. A thing is what it is and only what it is and it is what it is and does what it does according to its nature and independently of anyone's conscious activity. That things are what they are independent of consciousness is certainly true and it is also perceptually self evident.
Sure, through introspection. It can also be detected by observing the reactions of others to their values. I would imagine that it can also be detected in brain scans although I'm not an expert in that field.
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- Jan 8, 2011
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That's good, God is also usually detected by introspection.
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True Scotsman
Objectivist
That's right. It is the only alternative. There are different kinds of introspection though. I can introspect about things that I have perceived in reality, as in the process of abstraction and concept formation. Then there is emotions. I can look inward to view my emotional responses to things I perceive in reality. The other kind is the imagination. With my imagination I can rearrange the things I have perceived into constructs that don't exist in reality. This last is the only alternative to apprehend gods. They are imaginative projections of certain aspects of man with other, impossible abilities and attributes not found in nature. I can do this easily. I can imagine a god who created the universe but there is a fundamental distinction between the imaginary and the real.
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- Jan 8, 2011
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The only alternative? I think not. There is the testimony of those who he spoke to. More importantly there is the testimony about Jesus Christ his Son.
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There are no eye witness testimonies in the Bible and no one who ever met Jesus wrote any part of the Bible.
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True Scotsman
Objectivist
And I still have no alternative but to imagine what the testimonials speak of. I have no reliable way to distinguish these testimonials from something that the speaker may be merely imagining and then pretending is true. That's the rub. There's no objective referents.
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Excellent, Love has no mass.
It took a long time for that to be recognised. But love is exists, right?
How did something massless evolve?
Because it doesn't exist aside from a state that person can be in.
A physical, thinking human being can be in the state of "in love" but that doesn't mean that love is a separate physical thing.
Humans have got progressively more intelligent and have more sophisticated social interactions, part of this is the very close and special emotional statye we call love.
Did you not understand my analogy about temperature?
Here is another one:
A piece of paper can be flat and featureless or it can be shaped into a crane... but it will weigh the same. "Shaped like a crane" is definately real, but doesn't weigh anything.
Then perhaps you could explain the absurdity. It seems clear that people have explained their position.
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All you need do to show that I'm wrong is to point out the eye witness testimonies and the people who met Jesus and which part of the Bible they wrote, what could be simpler?
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The gospels, though some say otherwise it is obvious that these stories come from those who knew Jesus and spoke about him.
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PsychoSarah
Chaotic Neutral
It isn't really fair either way. Even if it was reasonable to expect those eyewitnesses to be literate (which it isn't) it would hardly make their accounts as stated in the bible any more likely, especially considering how many translations and edits that text has gone through.
Additionally, telling someone to write the account for them doesn't make what is written significantly lesser than what it would be if they wrote it themselves, the problem the bible has is that most of the stuff was written long after these witnesses were dead, and their stories were passed down orally for decades before anything was written down. That gives a lot of chance for portions to be even more exaggerated and warped.
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PsychoSarah
Chaotic Neutral
Only 1 book of the bible was written within a timeframe that would allow that to be true; and that would be the Book of Luke. That is the only one that has a CHANCE of being written by someone who could have been around to meet Jesus, and even that text might not have been written by someone who knew him.
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