Is The Trinity Biblical?

[nephilimiyr]

And who is the Comforter/Holy Spirit?
Show me the Bible verse that answers this.

What is the relationship of the Comforter/Holy Spirit to God in heaven?
It looks like he is a messenger, as was Gabriel who visited Mary in Luke chapter 1.
Show me the Bible verse that answers my question.

Wow! someone who actually answers questions! I should probably print this page out!!!

So your saying the comforter is a messenger like unto Gabriel?

LOL, first let me catch my breath!

 

[@@Paul@@]

Neph . . you are deflecting again . ..
Here is your dilema which I will clarify since you seem to be unwiling to do so .

If you answer no to my questions,

Are you able to hear and understand the Comforter perfectly?

Are you infallible in your understanding and comprehending of what He says to you?
​

You are admiting that you actually hear and understand the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, imperfectly which then means your understanding of the scriptures could be faulty, and thus your understanding of the Trinity, from just the Holy Spirit giving you wisdom about the Scriptures, could also be faulty .

Oh so God give us truth, as He promised… But left part two out of that verse. It will do you no good, because man is infallible. Perfect sense… thank you.

Those who seek for the truth will find it, as promised in scripture. Everything the Comforter teaches me, will be everything I need to know…

No one can know God infallibly, “no not one, no not one”. Only the Son knows the Father and visa-versa.

This then contradicts your assertion that you do not need the Creed or what the Creed represents, the teaching of the Church, to help you understand scriptures to understand the Trinity . .
On the contrary, it shows you need something MORE than just the Holy Spirit giving you wisdom about the scriptures to understand the Trinity . .

The Law was always for the unrighteous… The righteous man needs not the Law. See Galations. Same with the creed.

So you clearly contradict yourself if you answer "no"
If you ansswer "yes" to my questions, well then, you loose all credibility with poeple around here . . for, as Paul so kindly pointed out (thank you Paul )

No one hears voices "infallibily",
​

And thank you Paul for clarifying what voices you are speaking of:

infallible voices from heaven . .
​

You have trapped yourself into a dilema neph . . directing your frustration at me, attempting to deflect attention off this fact and onto me is not going to change the fact that you have created a dilema from which it is not eay to extracate yourself . .

The more sure word of prophecy is the WORD OF GOD, not voices from heaven, so you’re welcome.

You have tangled yourself up in your own words .
Peace in Him!

Does one need to fully understand the divine nature of God to come to a saving relationship with Him?

 

[@@Paul@@]

Right, Neph. The Holy Spirit is someone else, other than God. You have shown this.

That's a negative good buddy...

Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.​

So we can blaspheme God, but not the "comforter"?

2Ti 1:13-15 KJV
(13) Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
(14) That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
(15) This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.​

How exactly did Paul say to keep "that good thing"?

 

[thereselittleflower]

Talk about deflecting!


Here's your delema therese:

Do I need the nicene creed to teach me of the trinity, no.

Shelb5 and therese who is the comforter?
John 15:26, But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me

John 16:7, Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. J

If you answer anything other than the Holy Spirit the Bible will be used to clearly show that you are wrong. I will provide you with enough scripture to prove without a doubt that the comforter is the Holy Spirit.

Neph . .you are merely trying to control the conversation, deflecting it from the real issue, trying to make something that is not an issue the issue . .

I have never said the Comforter is anyone other than the Holy Spirit . .

You are either being dishonest in how you are applying my words, or you really are unable to have this type of converstaion logically . .


Let me ask you this, since you keep coming back to this as somehow an essential question that needs to be resolved . .

Who has given you any indication that they DON'T believe that the comforter is the Holy Spirit? Your continued hounding on this issue only begs the question as to why you keep asking it . .

Do you really think I am stupid neph?

Do you really think I don't know the Comforter is the Holy Spirit?

Why would you even question such a thing?

Are you serious?

do you really, sincerely need such a clarification?

Ok . I wll give you what you are demanding . . though for the life of me, your demand that I do so is either extremely childish, or shows that you are out of your depth here in this thread . .

The Comforter is the Holy Spirit neph . . do you not understand I was in agreement with your answer which you gave yourself in your post?


Now, what have you achieved by this?


You still are caught in your own dilema . .

The only reason I see why you continue to aviod answering these questions is because you don't want to admitt that the Bible is what teaches these things.

After reconsidering everything, I think the reason you are hounding me on this is because you are simply out of your depth in this thread. .


The reason I have not answered you in the manner in which you have been so demanding about is that

1) you already answered it yourself (hint . .I agreed with your answer when I said this before)

2) you seemed to be obviously ignoring the OBVIOUS . .


Now, as I see you are out of your depth, and truly do not understand when someone has agreed with you, I have given you a direct answer, even though it was unnecessary . .


Now the ball is in your court neph . .


Peace in Him!

 

[thereselittleflower]

Wow! someone who actually answers questions! I should probably print this page out!!!

So your saying the comforter is a messenger like unto Gabriel?

LOL, first let me catch my breath!

Yep

You are most definitely out of your depth here . .. if I had any questions about this left, you certainly removed them with this response to Kenny . .


Oh well . . .

Peace in Him!

 

[@@Paul@@]

[/font]

Neph . .you are merely trying to control the conversation, deflecting it from the real issue, trying to make something that is not an issue the issue . .

I have never said the Comforter is anyone other than the Holy Spirit . .

You are either being dishonest in how you are applying my words, or you really are unable to have this type of converstaion logically . .


Let me ask you this, since you keep coming back to this as somehow an essential question that needs to be resolved . .

Who has given you any indication that they DON'T believe that the comforter is the Holy Spirit? Your continued hounding on this issue only begs the question as to why you keep asking it . .

Do you really think I am stupid neph?

Do you really think I don't know the Comforter is the Holy Spirit?

Why would you even question such a thing?

Are you serious?

do you really, sincerely need such a clarification?

Ok . I wll give you what you are demanding . . though for the life of me, your demand that I do so is either extremely childish, or shows that you are out of your depth here in this thread . .

The Comforter is the Holy Spirit neph . . do you not understand I was in agreement with your answer which you gave yourself in your post?


Now, what have you achieved by this?


You still are caught in your own dilema . .




After reconsidering everything, I think the reason you are hounding me on this is because you are simply out of your depth in this thread. .


The reason I have not answered you in the manner in which you have been so demanding about is that

1) you already answered it yourself (hint . .I agreed with your answer when I said this before)

2) you seemed to be obviously ignoring the OBVIOUS . .


Now, as I see you are out of your depth, and truly do not understand when someone has agreed with you, I have given you a direct answer, even though it was unnecessary . .


Now the ball is in your court neph . .


Peace in Him!

I simple i answered that already would have been fine...

 

[Symes]

Tell me theresa where id the "Nicene Creed" get the Trinity from?

I will answer it for you.

The Bible.

 

[nephilimiyr]

And who is the Comforter/Holy Spirit?
Show me the Bible verse that answers this.

What is the relationship of the Comforter/Holy Spirit to God in heaven?
It looks like he is a messenger, as was Gabriel who visited Mary in Luke chapter 1.
Show me the Bible verse that answers my question.

In John 15:26 Jesus says that he will send the Comforter from the Father. He calls him even the Spirit of truth that proceeds from the Father. A messager is sent by the Father, a messenger never proceeds from the Father.

Now in John 16:7 Jesus says that the Comforter will not come unless He(Jesus) is taken away.

John 16:8-11, when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
This Comforter will rebuke and convict the world. Can a simple messenger from God convict the world of sin? I see nowhere in the Bible where this is taught. Messengers may send warnings of judgement but they are not the ones who convict. Only God himself can convict sinners and judge them. This tells me the Comforter has to be God.

Now in Acts 2 after the men were filled with the Holy Ghost Peter says this
Acts 2:16-18, But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of MY SPIRIT upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of MY SPIRIT; and they shall prophesy:
MY SPIRIT, this is referring the the Holy Ghost that they just received. I don't need the nicene creed to tell me the Holy Ghost is God because both Peter and Joel have already proclaimed it!

 

[Benedicta00]

Tell me theresa where id the "Nicene Creed" get the Trinity from?

I will answer it for you.

The Bible.

From the deposit of faith that was left to the Church that Jesus established so they may transmit that truth to us. IOW God.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Oh so God give us truth, as He promised… But left part two out of that verse. It will do you no good, because man is infallible. Perfect sense… thank you.

I don't see anywhere in the scriptures where it says that God gives us, INDIVIDUALLY, all truth . . do you?

And you are not making any sense Paul . . either you are saying man is infallible, or you are saying that I am saying man is infallible . . both are non-sensical given your earlier statements . ..

Those who seek for the truth will find it, as promised in scripture. Everything the Comforter teaches me, will be everything I need to know…

I agree 100% . .

But I do not agree that you will find it in isolation, individually, without the Church to whom the promise was made of the Holy Spirit leading into all truth collectively . .

God is not individualistic . . America is though . .

No one can know God infallibly, “no not one, no not one”. Only the Son knows the Father and visa-versa.

I am gald to hear you beileve this Paul. . .

The Law was always for the unrighteous… The righteous man needs not the Law. See Galations. Same with the creed.


The more sure word of prophecy is the WORD OF GOD, not voices from heaven, so you’re welcome.

And how does the word of Prophecy come Paul?

Does one need to fully understand the divine nature of God to come to a saving relationship with Him?

No Paul . . because no one can fully understand the divine nature of God ..

but that is not what we are speaking of here, is it . . .

We are speaking of right understanding verses wrong understanding . .

. .. and not just of the Divine nature, but of the God who is One God, 3 persons, 1 essence/nature


Peace in Him!

 

[nephilimiyr]

Tell me theresa where id the "Nicene Creed" get the Trinity from?

I will answer it for you.

The Bible.

LOL, this is also one of the questions I asked her to answer but yet have heard nothing from her. Sorry Symes but you wont get an answer from her because she refuses to answer anybody else's questions. She just wonts everyone to pay attention to her and answer her questions.

 

[thereselittleflower]

I simple i answered that already would have been fine...

ah .. I think I already said that before Paul . . he didn't accept it . .

Peace in Him!

 

[thereselittleflower]

Tell me theresa where id the "Nicene Creed" get the Trinity from?

I will answer it for you.

The Bible.

Symes, when was the bible compiled?

When did the council of Nicea meet? When was the Nicene Creed drafted?


You were saying?


Peace in Him!

 

[thereselittleflower]

LOL, this is also one of the questions I asked her to answer but yet have heard nothing from her. Sorry Symes but you wont get an answer from her because she refuses to answer anybody else's questions. She just wonts everyone to pay attention to her and answer her questions.

neph that question was not in post #34 that you demanded I answer . . .


hint Maybe you should read through my posts again?


Since you believe I didn't answer your question, perhaps I missed it. If you would be so kind to post a link to your post asking me that question, I will take a look at it for you, to put you at ease . .


Now, about your promise?

I give my word that if you make an honest attempt at answering those questions I will answer those questions you asked me. I wont hold my breath!

again my answer in post #84



And in case you have trouble finding it, here is the answer I gave in it again:

Ok . I wll give you what you are demanding . . though for the life of me, your demand that I do so is either extremely childish, or shows that you are out of your depth here in this thread . .


The Comforter is the Holy Spirit neph . . do you not understand I was in agreement with your answer which you gave yourself in your post?

​

Straightforward, honest, and to the point . .



The ball is in your court . .. (I seem to be repeating myself a lot in my posts to you . . . )


Are you a man of your word?





Peace in Him!

 

[Benedicta00]

God is the giver of all knowedge and He can use Satan himself to give that understanding......... I'm not saying the "Catholic Church" is Satan, but just because God used the early church to help people today understand His divine nature, does not mean diddly because there is much debate over the early church beginnings...

No there is not much debate over history only intellectually dishonest people who refuse to believe in documented facts and you did all but say the Church is led by Satan, how disappointed I am.

Personally, i think it was around well before the "Catholic Church"... But it doesn't matter... God should get all the glory, lets just thank Him.

The Church has been around since Jesus established it in 33 AD. Fact, not fiction.

And i would say the most important doctrine is the fact that Jesus Christ was both fully human and fully God.... and He died on the cross for the sins of mankind and then rose again..... wouldn't you?

Yeah- thank God for His Church who protected us from Arian error. (and many many other since)

 

[Benedicta00]

No one hears voices "infallibily", don't be rediculous... "We have a more sure word of prophesy..." and it's not little voices.

Are you assuming we (or some) can here infallible voices from heaven?

No where does the creed explain the trinity. One could also explain "modalism" from it quite clearly...

You know absolutely nothing about the gift of infallibility do you?

The word is with out error but he who interprets it is not.

You think you have the authority given by God to interpret what you read and have it be truth but what it is- is nothing more than personal truth.

We think God gave authority to one person not to interpret and create truth from interpreting as you do but to interpret it in light of tradition based on what Jesus personally taught to the apostles who taught that to us and left that teaching with Christ’s Church.

We understand that His gift of infallibility is for our benefit, it is our protecting of never being able to be taught a error.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Shelb, intellectual bankruptcy/dishonesty is a very sad thing . .


Peace in Him!

 

[Benedicta00]

Upon reading the Bible, some see that it teaches Modalism. Some see that it teaches pantheism. Some say it teaches Triunity.

Why is there these differences? Isn't the Bible clear? Let's ask the eunich who was met by Phillip.

What is clear by reading the Bible is that Jesus and the Father are one. Whatever that means.

That’s the beauty of sola scripture.

 

[nephilimiyr]

neph that question was not in post #34 that you demanded I answer . . .


hint Maybe you should read through my posts again?

my original comment to you was this

I have asked you several, you don't want to answer any of them?

I thought I'd make it easier on you to just point you to post #34 but even with that there were several other questions I asked you that you have refused to answer like "where did the Bishops get their understanding"? or "where did the nicene council learn these truths"?
You have refused to answer these as well as the ones in post #34 and at the same time accusing me of being a hypocrate because I wont answer your 2 questions. I have not and will not act like you and call you a hypocrate like you have done to me but I will demand that if you want to resort to name calling the least you can do is answer my questions.

Since you believe I didn't answer your question, perhaps I missed it. If you would be so kind to post a link to your post asking me that question, I will take a look at it for you, to put you at ease . .



Now, about your promise?

I haven't read any post from you answering my questions. If you have posted recently I will check it out.

The other questions? post #36

 

[Benedicta00]

Many good saints of God respond to posts such as this regarding the "trinity" and yet there is no solid agreement among them on this topic. Other topics such as "the death burial and resurrection of Jesus", "the virgin birth", "Lordship of Jesus" and such do not reveal this sort of disagreement. Why is it?
I for one certainly agree with the Nicene Creed and that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God... but not the invented concept of the "trinity" with which people try to put God in their neat little box.
The disagreements exist simply because a group of people have invented a word and are trying to define the nature of God by that word, and in so doing diminish the true definition of God. God is not bound by our definitions or limited to our small attempts to box Him into our useless attempts to describe Him. This aspect of the nature of the unity of God is a mystery, which is a hidden thing, which God says belongs to Him! Do not try and steal what belongs to God!

Deu 29:29
29 The secret [things belong] unto the LORD our God: but those [things which are] revealed [belong] unto us and to our children for ever, that [we] may do all the words of this law.

God said that we should understand the Father by the revelation Jesus gave us. He is the exact image of the Father and if you want to see that Father or what the Father is like all you have to do is look at Jesus. Jesus is the revelation of the Father and belongs to us. As a believer in Jesus I confess that He succeeded in His mission to show us the Father, so there no need to invent any other doctrine or term to define and understand Him.

I have no problem with anyone who uses or teaches the "trinity"... but I do with those who insist that we accept their man made doctrines "or else".

Trying to fit God into a little concept of "trinity" is like trying to force the raging sea into a cup. You think you are doing something noble and spiritual... but all you are doing is blinding yourselves and others to the truth as revealed in Jesus!

No- it is because there was a hectic running around and he was a bishop claiming that Jesus wasn’t God using scripture to support him- the Church did it’s job by condemning this heresy. That is not man trying to put God in a little box, that is protecting the faithful from heresy. And PS the Church does tell us that this is a mystery that we will never fully understand... so what point are you making again?