Is The Trinity Biblical?

[@@Paul@@]

Yes but there is only one truth

our Lord Jesus Christ..

so what is your take neph.? Any verses pop into your mind when you think of the nature of God??

 

[nephilimiyr]

our Lord Jesus Christ..

so what is your take neph.? Any verses pop into your mind when you think of the nature of God??

My take on the verse?


Takeing Genesis 1:26 and interpreting it to be talking about the trinity is committing the crime of reading the NT into the OT. Any student of biblical interpretation will tell you that that is an illegitimate method of interpretation yet many committ the error of reading genesis 1:26 in that way.

Not sure if anyone here is ready to here what my interpretation of the verse is...

The whole Bible is about the nature of God but we have to keep it all into context with what we're reading.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Hebrews 4:12, For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and spirit, and the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
One of my favorite verses!

Let's see, soul, spirit, joints and marrow...yep all 3 are there. My take on this is that we are made up of 3 things, these 3 make us one. I would say this reminds me of the trinity.

 

[@@Paul@@]

Hebrews 4:12, For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and spirit, and the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
One of my favorite verses!

Let's see, soul, spirit, joints and marrow...yep all 3 are there. My take on this is that we are made up of 3 things, these 3 make us one. I would say this reminds me of the trinity.

 

[Singz4Him]

Of course it is but what you will not find explicitly is the Trinity taught as three persons but ONE God, please show me where the bible will teach us this with out prior knowledge of what it is. You believe it because someone told you first, there is no scripture that tells you God is one nature but three persons.

Just curious here, but what do you do with Genesis 1:26 and John 1:1?

 

[nephilimiyr]

Just curious here, but what do you do with Genesis 1:26 and John 1:1?

I'd love to answer this myself but what I want to know from Shelb5 is where she learned about the trinity. I see the doctrine of the trinity all throughout the NT. I don't need the Nicene Creed telling me about it because the NT tells me about it. Where does she think the Nicene council got their beliefs? Shelb5 tell me, was it through studing the NT scriptures that they formed their belief in the trinity or was it through studying Greek novels?

Jesus Talks about the Father and he talks about the Holy Spirit as being seperate yet one in the same. I don't need any outside help to show these truths to me because the Holy Spirit has already.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Of course it is but what you will not find explicitly is the Trinity taught as three persons but ONE God, please show me where the bible will teach us this with out prior knowledge of what it is. You believe it because someone told you first, there is no scripture that tells you God is one nature but three persons.

There is no scripture that explicitly states this, you are correct but there is no line in the nicene creed that explicitly states God is one nature but three persons either. While reading the nicene creed you draw that inference just like I draw the inference from reading the NT that God is made up of 3.

 

[ydouxist]

Shelby,


Are you angry? Maybe it's just me.

 

[thereselittleflower]

There is no scripture that explicitly states this, you are correct but there is no line in the nicene creed that explicitly states God is one nature but three persons either. While reading the nicene creed you draw that inference just like I draw the inference from reading the NT that God is made up of 3.

The word in the Creed is "essence" . . this means on nature . . Being one essence with the Father . . The sharing of this essence by the Holy Spirit is revealed in the procession of the Holy Spirit.


Peace in Him!

 

[thereselittleflower]

Man has a Body>Spirit>Soul,,, we are ONE nature with three "persons".

No we're not . .we are ONE Person Multipersonality disorder sufferers are the ones who come closest to having more than one person.

Although being man, we can only live while our spirit is out walking around by itself, if our soul joins it for a casual walk down the mall for some window shopping, our body dies...

ummm . . first off . . do you practice astral projection? How do you know the body lives when the spirit is outside of it?

I have heard stories of people showing no signs of life when this happens, for all intents and purpsoses, their bodies are dead . . their bodies come back to life when their spirit re enters the body.

Do you practice astral projection by any chance?


Peace in Him!

 

[thereselittleflower]

That's why it says "Image". We are not gods... we are human. Everything on this earth was created after a "pattern or something in the heavens". Man included.

We are one person which is made up of three persons (a character or role); God is one person made up of three persons (an individual being)... It's the same "pattern" or "image" only we are not gods.

Did you see a mouse or something?

Paul, person speaks of "personhood" .

not characters or roles . . .


I'm learning something new every day here reading your posts . .



Peace in Him!

 

[nephilimiyr]

The word in the Creed is "essence" . . this means on nature . . Being one essence with the Father . . The sharing of this essence by the Holy Spirit is revealed in the procession of the Holy Spirit.


Peace in Him!

But therese the creed still doesn't say explicitly what Shelb5 says she believe's it says. No where in the creed does it say anything about "persons". Neither does the Bible. I see the creed as saying what the Bible does in short form. That doesn't mean I had to read the creed to believe in this doctrine of the trinity but only that the creed has put the doctrine in a statment to make it easy to profess. What the creed has done is put our faith that we have read and learned, that has been revealed to us through the Holy Spirit, all down on one page.

Also, the Holy Spirit doesn't give me wisdom to know what the creed says but what the Word of God says. The Word of God is not the creed. The creed is a profession of faith written by man to express in word what the Word of God says.

Now the word essence means...something that is, or exists; that which makes something what it is, fundamental nature or most important quality. This is also true about our body, soul, and spirit but Shelb5 and you are argueing that that isn't true. Is not our body in essence ourselves? Is not our soul in essence ourselves? Is not our spirit in essence ourselves? Don't these three things that we are made of share in the nature of ourselves?

1 Thessalonians 5:23, And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be perserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
We are made up of body, soul, and spirit.

 

[thereselittleflower]

But therese the creed still doesn't say explicitly what Shelb5 says she believe's it says. No where in the creed does it say anything about "persons". Neither does the Bible. I see the creed as saying what the Bible does in short form. That doesn't mean I had to read the creed to believe in this doctrine of the trinity but only that the creed has put the doctrine in a statment to make it easy to profess. What the creed has done is put our faith that we have read and learned, that has been revealed to us through the Holy Spirit, all down on one page.

Also, the Holy Spirit doesn't give me wisdom to know what the creed says but what the Word of God says. The Word of God is not the creed. The creed is a profession of faith written by man to express in word what the Word of God says.

Now the word essence means...something that is, or exists; that which makes something what it is, fundamental nature or most important quality. This is also true about our body, soul, and spirit but Shelb5 and you are argueing that that isn't true. Is not our body in essence ourselves? Is not our soul in essence ourselves? Is not our spirit in essence ourselves? Don't these three things that we are made of share in the nature of ourselves?

1 Thessalonians 5:23, And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be perserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
We are made up of body, soul, and spirit.

The creed uses theological terms which were defined by the council .. how can you hope to understand the theological terms if you don't read what the council said about them, but only read the creed?

The creed does not stand in isolation by itself . . it is a concise, summarized statement of belief that has to be explained . .


Perhaps your reading of the creed does not yield to your understanding what Shelb specifically said, but the Bishops who wrote the creed sure did explain it as such . .



Perhaps you should not be trying to interpret the creed on your own, but use the definitions of the Church who wrote it?


Peace in Him!

 

[nephilimiyr]

Do I need the nicene creed to teach me of the trinity, no.

Shelb5 and therese who is the comforter?
John 15:26, But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me

John 16:7, Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 15:26 talks about the Comforter comeing from the Father yet in John 16:7 Jesus refers to the Comforter as "him". The very use of the word shows that Jesus is talking about someone else. Again in John 15:26 the use of the word "he" signifies that Jesus is talking about someone else other than him.

So who is this someone else?
Acts 1:5, For John truely baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
The someone else, the Comforter, is the Holy Spirit.

 

[thereselittleflower]

nephilimiyr

Are you able to hear and understand the Comferter perfectly? Are you infallible in your understanding and comprehending of what He says to you?


Peace in Him!

 

[nephilimiyr]

The creed uses theological terms which were defined by the council .. how can you hope to understand the theological terms if you don't read what the council said about them, but only read the creed?

The creed does not stand in isolation by itself . . it is a concise, summarized statement of belief that has to be explained . .

Exactly because it doesn't explicitly say what Shelb5 says it says, that's why it has to be explained. Now where did the council get their belief? They got it through studying the NT. The doctrine of the trinity is in the Bible, one does not have to learn about it from reading the nicene creed or the theological terms it uses.

Perhaps your reading of the creed does not yield to your understanding what Shelb specifically said, but the Bishops who wrote the creed sure did explain it as such . .

Where did the Bisops get their belief in the trinity?

Perhaps you should not be trying to interpret the creed on your own, but use the definitions of the Church who wrote it?

So are you saying the word "essence" has it's own special meaning in the creed other than what the word normally means? Essence does not mean person. In order to read the creed as explicitly saying God is in three persons you have to study further. Thank you for proveing my whole point. Just like the Bible doesn't explicitly say God is in three persons, in order to to find this you have to study further into the Word. You have to do the same thing the nicene council did and read the book.

 

[nephilimiyr]

nephilimiyr

Are you able to hear and understand the Comferter perfectly? Are you infallible in your understanding and comprehending of what He says to you?


Peace in Him!

That is not an answer to my question or questions. I take it you have none?

 

[renegade pariah]

Regardless of weither one excepts the Trinity, the importance of these three entities is primary above the Angels and humans and demons and everything else. I would point out however, that Jesus taught us to pray to our Father in Heaven. Although if prayer is just the sincere and pure communication with the divine, I would supose that prayer would be acceptable to all three. Since Christ however makes it plain to worship the Father, one could ask why Jesus has become a prime recipient of Prayer.

 

[thereselittleflower]

That is not an answer to my question or questions. I take it you have none?

I'm asking you a question . . you don't want to answer it?

I find that people who claim what you claim for yourself never want to answer this question becaues it exposes their hypocrisy . .


Peace in Him!

 

[thereselittleflower]

Exactly because it doesn't explicitly say what Shelb5 says it says, that's why it has to be explained. Now where did the council get their belief? They got it through studying the NT.

ummm . . .just when do you think the New Testament came to be???

The doctrine of the trinity is in the Bible, one does not have to learn about it from reading the nicene creed or the theological terms it uses.

Where did the Bisops get their belief in the trinity?

When you tell me when the New Testament came to be, I will answer your question.

So are you saying the word "essence" has it's own special meaning in the creed other than what the word normally means? Essence does not mean person.

Where did I say that "essence" meant person??

In order to read the creed as explicitly saying God is in three persons you have to study further. Thank you for proveing my whole point. Just like the Bible doesn't explicitly say God is in three persons, in order to to find this you have to study further into the Word. You have to do the same thing the nicene council did and read the book.

And how are we disagreeing here? What is it specifically you think Shelb was trying to say is there in the Creed that you say is not there?


Peace in Him!